Fuel system help..
08-20-2013, 09:35 AM
#21
Hmmmm l. Maybrle im making it out to be more of a pain than it really is. I was kind of worried of the consistency of e85 around here too. I think ill buy a tester this week and see what I come up with. What kinda fuel mileage could I expect? 3.55 gears, th400, 3600 stall, 390ci, twin turbo, 1000rwhp lol
08-20-2013, 10:19 AM
#22
You tune in the summer and just let it go a little rich in the winter. I have not seen the a/f move enough to worry about the exact mix. You might get 15mpg on the highway if you keep your speed down. It won't be good but your overall cost per mile will not go up compared to 93.
08-20-2013, 10:21 PM
#26
there are a few ways to combat the e85 availability situation.
frost sales a dual pcm. have 2 tunes and easily switch between them.
of course you could have the seperate tunes stored in your laptop and just flash the single pcm.
in my case I drive by the station that has the fuel almost every day. id have roughly 15 gallons in my tank and 15-30 gallons sitting at home at all times.
Jaz makes the big jug. you could carry 4 small ones too
frost sales a dual pcm. have 2 tunes and easily switch between them.
of course you could have the seperate tunes stored in your laptop and just flash the single pcm.
in my case I drive by the station that has the fuel almost every day. id have roughly 15 gallons in my tank and 15-30 gallons sitting at home at all times.
Jaz makes the big jug. you could carry 4 small ones too
08-20-2013, 10:33 PM
#27
you guys with the multiple tunes or pcm's. have you ever tried just dumping in pump gas and making your way home? i have on 3 different set ups and the trims were able to quickly adjust for the fuel. if your on the road and have 1/4 tank of e85 and then get some pump gas(e10) you wont even know what your new mix is.
so, you plan ahead and know where the e85 stations are when hitting the road. if your like me you only leave your area 1-2 times a year so it isn't really a big deal. then worse case you get low on fuel and your e85 stations turn out to not really be there or it is just some co-op with odd hours so you just dump some pump gas in there.
your car adjusts the idle mixture before you are out of the gas station lot and adjusts for cruise by the time you get up to speed. sure there is some transitional trims that will take a little driving before they get sorted out but who cares, it will be on the rich side. yes your trims will be -20 or even worse but you will see 14.7/1 a/f and be able to drive as far as you like.
get home and flush out that fuel(pump it into your wifes car is what i do) and fill it with some e85 and your all ready to race again.
so, you plan ahead and know where the e85 stations are when hitting the road. if your like me you only leave your area 1-2 times a year so it isn't really a big deal. then worse case you get low on fuel and your e85 stations turn out to not really be there or it is just some co-op with odd hours so you just dump some pump gas in there.
your car adjusts the idle mixture before you are out of the gas station lot and adjusts for cruise by the time you get up to speed. sure there is some transitional trims that will take a little driving before they get sorted out but who cares, it will be on the rich side. yes your trims will be -20 or even worse but you will see 14.7/1 a/f and be able to drive as far as you like.
get home and flush out that fuel(pump it into your wifes car is what i do) and fill it with some e85 and your all ready to race again.
08-20-2013, 10:35 PM
#28
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What about one of those factory flex fuel sensors in a return line? They'll restrict a feed too much, but it wouldn't be an issue if you run it in a return after the reg. Even Y the return to two of the size needed, run the sensor and then Y back to your -8 or -10 return to tank.
08-21-2013, 06:36 AM
#29
You could always run dual fuel, this is what we do on maxxmitchell's car and works great. Since you haven't started a fuel system yet, the cost to switch it it isn't that much more in the long run and then gives you the ability to cruise on 87 pump gas.
We are now doing this setup with a holley dominator efi setup.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...tock-pcms.html
We are now doing this setup with a holley dominator efi setup.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...tock-pcms.html
08-21-2013, 07:27 AM
#30
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I believe guys run E85 on the rubber/braide hose, but you will get fuel vapor and E85 does not smell very good. You will definitely want to go with a teflon E85 rated hose. I was also planning on running the 127# injectors from FIC and FIC told me thev'ye run them in boosted E85 applications up 1100rwhp, so i think you should go for E85. I haven't seen anyone here yet push the 127 lbers that far yet, since it look slike most guys running big power go with a 160# or 2000cc injector
Last edited by Jefro6996; 08-21-2013 at 07:30 AM. Reason: typo
08-21-2013, 07:42 AM
#31
there are a few ways to combat the e85 availability situation.
frost sales a dual pcm. have 2 tunes and easily switch between them.
of course you could have the seperate tunes stored in your laptop and just flash the single pcm.
in my case I drive by the station that has the fuel almost every day. id have roughly 15 gallons in my tank and 15-30 gallons sitting at home at all times.
Jaz makes the big jug. you could carry 4 small ones too
frost sales a dual pcm. have 2 tunes and easily switch between them.
of course you could have the seperate tunes stored in your laptop and just flash the single pcm.
in my case I drive by the station that has the fuel almost every day. id have roughly 15 gallons in my tank and 15-30 gallons sitting at home at all times.
Jaz makes the big jug. you could carry 4 small ones too
You could always run dual fuel, this is what we do on maxxmitchell's car and works great. Since you haven't started a fuel system yet, the cost to switch it it isn't that much more in the long run and then gives you the ability to cruise on 87 pump gas.
We are now doing this setup with a holley dominator efi setup.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...tock-pcms.html
We are now doing this setup with a holley dominator efi setup.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...tock-pcms.html
you guys with the multiple tunes or pcm's. have you ever tried just dumping in pump gas and making your way home? i have on 3 different set ups and the trims were able to quickly adjust for the fuel. if your on the road and have 1/4 tank of e85 and then get some pump gas(e10) you wont even know what your new mix is.
so, you plan ahead and know where the e85 stations are when hitting the road. if your like me you only leave your area 1-2 times a year so it isn't really a big deal. then worse case you get low on fuel and your e85 stations turn out to not really be there or it is just some co-op with odd hours so you just dump some pump gas in there.
your car adjusts the idle mixture before you are out of the gas station lot and adjusts for cruise by the time you get up to speed. sure there is some transitional trims that will take a little driving before they get sorted out but who cares, it will be on the rich side. yes your trims will be -20 or even worse but you will see 14.7/1 a/f and be able to drive as far as you like.
get home and flush out that fuel(pump it into your wifes car is what i do) and fill it with some e85 and your all ready to race again.
so, you plan ahead and know where the e85 stations are when hitting the road. if your like me you only leave your area 1-2 times a year so it isn't really a big deal. then worse case you get low on fuel and your e85 stations turn out to not really be there or it is just some co-op with odd hours so you just dump some pump gas in there.
your car adjusts the idle mixture before you are out of the gas station lot and adjusts for cruise by the time you get up to speed. sure there is some transitional trims that will take a little driving before they get sorted out but who cares, it will be on the rich side. yes your trims will be -20 or even worse but you will see 14.7/1 a/f and be able to drive as far as you like.
get home and flush out that fuel(pump it into your wifes car is what i do) and fill it with some e85 and your all ready to race again.
I believe guys run E85 on the rubber/braide hose, but you will get fuel vapor and E85 does not smell very good. You will definitely want to go with a teflon E85 rated hose. I was also planning on running the 127# injectors from FIC and FIC told me thev'ye run them in boosted E85 applications up 1100rwhp, so i think you should go for E85. I haven't seen anyone here yet push the 127 lbers that far yet, since it look slike most guys running big power go with a 160# or 2000cc injector
08-21-2013, 10:13 AM
#32
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It's hard to believe that the PTFE line at silicone intakes is only $4/foot. Can anyone comment on the quality of their line? Only certain PTFE hoses require the use of the one time use crimp on fittings. There are PTFE hose options that allow you to use a re-usable AN fitting, but they are slightly different than a standard rubber/stainless braided AN hose fitting.
Edit- I found a link comparing the Silicone intakes hose to Earls PTFE hose. Wasnt an article or anything. Just someone who had a few pieces of each hose and ran a few basic comparisons.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2236246
Edit- I found a link comparing the Silicone intakes hose to Earls PTFE hose. Wasnt an article or anything. Just someone who had a few pieces of each hose and ran a few basic comparisons.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2236246
Last edited by Jefro6996; 08-21-2013 at 11:08 AM.
08-21-2013, 03:58 PM
#33
Pretty good comparison^
As it stands, my setup will be the Squash Performance Dual 450LPH Pumps w/ -8 supply and a -6 quick connect return. My only issue with the setup is i have to splice in the relay kits and hobbs switch. and i have no idea where to splice or how to do it. the lonnies kit is about the same price as the squash, but he uses twin 340's instead of 450's and i dont think that will be enough for E85 and 1000rwhp. But i do like the fact that lonnies is all plug and play.. Have any diagrams of how to wire these pumps?
As it stands, my setup will be the Squash Performance Dual 450LPH Pumps w/ -8 supply and a -6 quick connect return. My only issue with the setup is i have to splice in the relay kits and hobbs switch. and i have no idea where to splice or how to do it. the lonnies kit is about the same price as the squash, but he uses twin 340's instead of 450's and i dont think that will be enough for E85 and 1000rwhp. But i do like the fact that lonnies is all plug and play.. Have any diagrams of how to wire these pumps?
08-21-2013, 04:06 PM
#34
IIRC, you just need the trigger wire whatever it is for your year for your stock fuel pump going to the relay, ground, and power for the primary pump, then the wire to the pump. For the second pump, use the hobbs switch as the trigger, ground, and power, then the wire to the pump. I may have a diagram on my home computer that I can post tomorrow when I get home.
08-21-2013, 06:45 PM
#35
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You might not even need to spend that much. When I talked to Andy at Squash, he assured me that the -8 PTFE feed line ran to a Y with two -6 lines ran to each rail and back to the regulator will flow more than the dual fat bottom walbros can flow ~1300-1400 rwhp E85. This was also with running a -6 to a quick dis connect to the stock feed line, which will be used as the return line. if you are going with the Squash in tank setup you might want to give him a call and let him know what your goals are and he can point you in the right direction. This might save you the extra $$ on the return hose. Let me know what you end up doing, since I'll be ordering my fuel system in the next month.
08-22-2013, 12:08 PM
#36
IIRC, you just need the trigger wire whatever it is for your year for your stock fuel pump going to the relay, ground, and power for the primary pump, then the wire to the pump. For the second pump, use the hobbs switch as the trigger, ground, and power, then the wire to the pump. I may have a diagram on my home computer that I can post tomorrow when I get home.
You might not even need to spend that much. When I talked to Andy at Squash, he assured me that the -8 PTFE feed line ran to a Y with two -6 lines ran to each rail and back to the regulator will flow more than the dual fat bottom walbros can flow ~1300-1400 rwhp E85. This was also with running a -6 to a quick dis connect to the stock feed line, which will be used as the return line. if you are going with the Squash in tank setup you might want to give him a call and let him know what your goals are and he can point you in the right direction. This might save you the extra $$ on the return hose. Let me know what you end up doing, since I'll be ordering my fuel system in the next month.
08-22-2013, 01:56 PM
#38
Not sure whats with all the fuel system over engineering. With enough base pressure, guys making well over 850whp on 80lb injectors on E85. Some with OEM fuel lines.
IMO 120lb injectors and 1 straight 1/2" line is MORE than enough for your goals. You can buy 2 450 walbros for around 325 shipped. I used thin wall 1/2" SS hardlines from a brewing company flared them and used AN fittings. A little over 700whp my 120s are around 50% duty cycle on e85 and I'm only running 45psi base pressure! Also running OEM LS1 fuel rail. Also I've run standard pushlock hose on several diffferent cars for years and I've never had ethanol smells or seepage? Teflon isn't necessary IMO.
You said you don't drive the car much? Why not just run both pumps all the time?
Or google DUAL FUEL PUMP WIRING and you'll get a million hits. Or even search on this site...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-i...g-install.html
IMO 120lb injectors and 1 straight 1/2" line is MORE than enough for your goals. You can buy 2 450 walbros for around 325 shipped. I used thin wall 1/2" SS hardlines from a brewing company flared them and used AN fittings. A little over 700whp my 120s are around 50% duty cycle on e85 and I'm only running 45psi base pressure! Also running OEM LS1 fuel rail. Also I've run standard pushlock hose on several diffferent cars for years and I've never had ethanol smells or seepage? Teflon isn't necessary IMO.
You said you don't drive the car much? Why not just run both pumps all the time?
Or google DUAL FUEL PUMP WIRING and you'll get a million hits. Or even search on this site...
https://ls1tech.com/forums/fueling-i...g-install.html
Last edited by Forcefed86; 08-22-2013 at 02:06 PM.
08-22-2013, 04:23 PM
#39
I do like the idea of running them both all the time. Less wiring and saves me $60 so i dont have to buy their hobbs switch kit. Where are you finding those pumps for $325? i cant find em under $180/piece. Imma go ahead and do SS lines, They look a lot better and will match my theme under the hood.