those of you with the AES 390
#61
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Well here's an update: have changed oil every 500 miles/before and after dyno tuning. Engine had less than 2k miles miles on it and 3 passes at the track, it ate a main bearing (2nd main from the front). Thrust bearings, and all other bearings (mains/rod) are all in good condition. On to the heads that AES ported/polished, installed new stainless valves, springs and retainers. Per multiple phone conversations with Brian, he assured me that Manley valves would be installed in my heads. Well upon engine teardown, I noticed that the valve stems were different heights. I Had a machine shop Check the heads out and found that the intake valves have pulled into the head (tulipped) making them .060 taller. The valves were not Manleys, they were cheap Qualfast p/n 53-108202 intake valves, and Qualfast exh valves p/n 53-108157. The noisy valvetrain was from these shitty valves! Everyone with a AES 390 and AES ported heads should be worried about their cheap valvetrain parts! If it wasn't for the bearing, I would have had serious catastrophic failure!
Karma will get them someday.
AES - Home of the World's Fastest Runaround and Record Setting Lies and Ripoffs
#62
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Same exact crap that was in my engine. Mine are tulipped to beat hell as well. I found mine out after they had put the wrong head gaskets in and I tore it down to put the right ones in. Mine had the Qualfast as well. They definitely know how to cut corners and have just enough generalized to cover everything up. You can definitely tell they have been confronted about it multiple times. They are definitely "wordsmiths".
Karma will get them someday.
AES - Home of the World's Fastest Runaround and Record Setting Lies and Ripoffs
Karma will get them someday.
AES - Home of the World's Fastest Runaround and Record Setting Lies and Ripoffs
#64
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Well here's an update: have changed oil every 500 miles/before and after dyno tuning. Engine had less than 2k miles miles on it and 3 passes at the track, it ate a main bearing (2nd main from the front). Thrust bearings, and all other bearings (mains/rod) are all in good condition. On to the heads that AES ported/polished, installed new stainless valves, springs and retainers. Per multiple phone conversations with Brian, he assured me that Manley valves would be installed in my heads. Well upon engine teardown, I noticed that the valve stems were different heights. I Had a machine shop Check the heads out and found that the intake valves have pulled into the head (tulipped) making them .060 taller. The valves were not Manleys, they were cheap Qualfast p/n 53-108202 intake valves, and Qualfast exh valves p/n 53-108157. The noisy valvetrain was from these shitty valves! Everyone with a AES 390 and AES ported heads should be worried about their cheap valvetrain parts! If it wasn't for the bearing, I would have had serious catastrophic failure!
.
#65
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Bro....seriously. If I opened my engine, especially after a failure, and found parts that were paid for and they were not inside my engine.....I would get cash in hand from them at their shop upon a visit there, for the entire cost of the engine plus my shipping costs.......period.
.
.
You go to the Heads section of the Invoice, and it is labeled as "AES Headpk". In the Description, it says "GM Cast 243 Heads(pair), Stainless valves, double springs, retainers, locks, cups and locators. 2.000 Intake Valve 1.570 Exhaust Valve."
Those crooks have themselves covered because they will say I don't see anywhere on the invoice where it was discussed upgraded valves. Hell, mine were 2.02 and 1.60 valves, not the 2.0 and 1.57 spelled out on my invoice. So they end up putting the cheap, piece of **** valves in, that are not proper to the application (mine says 390 Boost Beast in the PO Number), and they don't stand behind anything when they fail. I believe I have about 1400 miles on mine before noticing the issue.
#66
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The problem is, they know how to cut these corners and get away with it. Their generalized invoices. I had received about 10 iterations of mine before it started to get to a point with everything being spelled out. The first iteration had every line item completely generalized. I finally had them break down most of the line items, but I failed to have them breakdown the cylinder head section. I am guessing dmaxvaz and probably more consumers are in the same boat.
You go to the Heads section of the Invoice, and it is labeled as "AES Headpk". In the Description, it says "GM Cast 243 Heads(pair), Stainless valves, double springs, retainers, locks, cups and locators. 2.000 Intake Valve 1.570 Exhaust Valve."
Those crooks have themselves covered because they will say I don't see anywhere on the invoice where it was discussed upgraded valves. Hell, mine were 2.02 and 1.60 valves, not the 2.0 and 1.57 spelled out on my invoice. So they end up putting the cheap, piece of **** valves in, that are not proper to the application (mine says 390 Boost Beast in the PO Number), and they don't stand behind anything when they fail. I believe I have about 1400 miles on mine before noticing the issue.
You go to the Heads section of the Invoice, and it is labeled as "AES Headpk". In the Description, it says "GM Cast 243 Heads(pair), Stainless valves, double springs, retainers, locks, cups and locators. 2.000 Intake Valve 1.570 Exhaust Valve."
Those crooks have themselves covered because they will say I don't see anywhere on the invoice where it was discussed upgraded valves. Hell, mine were 2.02 and 1.60 valves, not the 2.0 and 1.57 spelled out on my invoice. So they end up putting the cheap, piece of **** valves in, that are not proper to the application (mine says 390 Boost Beast in the PO Number), and they don't stand behind anything when they fail. I believe I have about 1400 miles on mine before noticing the issue.
Sucks to hear these friggin stories.....money doesn't grow on trees for most of us street-strip guys........
I learned a lesson in 2002 with a 436ci stroker I had built.......and some little shinanigans that were almost pulled on me....luckily I straightened them out and got everything I asked and paid for......but I was close to getting screwed over with some things that were promised.
Now I make sure I have the upper hand. I will show up to a shop and I will get a full refund if I ever found the wrong parts in a motor I paid for.....thats a damn certainty.....
.
#67
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Faarrrrkkkkk.
I'ma check my invoice. Theoretically I should be ok, seeing as I purchased "complete" heads... Right?
https://i.imgur.com/98tugKn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3tAb4Px.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZiFVmsC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Vcxrr4n.jpg
I'ma check my invoice. Theoretically I should be ok, seeing as I purchased "complete" heads... Right?
https://i.imgur.com/98tugKn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3tAb4Px.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZiFVmsC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Vcxrr4n.jpg
#68
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Faarrrrkkkkk.
I'ma check my invoice. Theoretically I should be ok, seeing as I purchased "complete" heads... Right?
https://i.imgur.com/98tugKn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3tAb4Px.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZiFVmsC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Vcxrr4n.jpg
I'ma check my invoice. Theoretically I should be ok, seeing as I purchased "complete" heads... Right?
https://i.imgur.com/98tugKn.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/3tAb4Px.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZiFVmsC.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Vcxrr4n.jpg
I will say that your invoice is more thorough than mine.
Hope you have better luck than we did.
#69
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I also had a set of cylinder heads rebuilt and flowed at AES. Intake Valve Replacement was recommended, and I obliged. When I picked up the heads and inquired which Valves were installed, Brian tells me that "they're all really the same". I wanted a part number for internal records only, and he was unable to provide one.
Thankfully, AES is not just incompetent in their machining operations, as they follow suit with their billing (or complete lack thereof). They failed to charge me for what are clearly (insert brand and cost here) stainless steel intake valves. Now I'm battling them over in the Sponsor Feedback forum, and contacted my lawyer.
These guys need to go. They're nothing short of a disease to the LS Community.
Thankfully, AES is not just incompetent in their machining operations, as they follow suit with their billing (or complete lack thereof). They failed to charge me for what are clearly (insert brand and cost here) stainless steel intake valves. Now I'm battling them over in the Sponsor Feedback forum, and contacted my lawyer.
These guys need to go. They're nothing short of a disease to the LS Community.
#71
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Got the bill for my heads a couple of weeks ago and compared it to what AES quoted. Wish I could have bought them for the AES price, but these probably will prove to be more durable in the long run. Still took a year to get, so I think waiting is just part of the game no matter where you go.
Admittedly, I made the mistake of telling Brian I was in no rush, which I believe was a cardinal sin on my part. I believe what happened was I was put on the back burner, for lack of a better description, once it was discovered that my direction was fluctuating. First engine build, he has my cylinder heads AND the engine for my car. Where on earth else am I going to go other than back to AES?!? NOT ANYMORE.
![Mr. Cool](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_cool.gif)
The only real benefits of my dealings with AES is I've dealt with several other engine builders since who have been able to discuss both financial and mechanical benefits of machining and specifying a high performance build. AES is not strong in the customer service department, this isn't even a question at this point in the game. One good job will yield 5 recommendations, one poor job will yield 30 recommendations to take your business elsewhere. I believe the people have spoken in this regard.
If your knowledge is "advanced" and you know exactly what you want, give AES a try, but be prepared to wait. Otherwise, guys like Kyle at TMS, Randy at PER, Steve at Legend - these are all people that have the foresight and instinct to look at an engine build from an inexperienced first time clients point of view. THESE are the types of guys I prefer to do business with because they not only are knowledgeable, but at the end of the day, they understand that they're employed because of people like us.
#72
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I'm sorry, but for my build, four months to build a set of cylinder heads is not acceptable. There was no CNC machining done, and even if it were required, I'd still have considered a four month wait pretty extensive.
Admittedly, I made the mistake of telling Brian I was in no rush, which I believe was a cardinal sin on my part. I believe what happened was I was put on the back burner, for lack of a better description, once it was discovered that my direction was fluctuating. First engine build, he has my cylinder heads AND the engine for my car. Where on earth else am I going to go other than back to AES?!? NOT ANYMORE.![Mr. Cool](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_cool.gif)
The only real benefits of my dealings with AES is I've dealt with several other engine builders since who have been able to discuss both financial and mechanical benefits of machining and specifying a high performance build. AES is not strong in the customer service department, this isn't even a question at this point in the game. One good job will yield 5 recommendations, one poor job will yield 30 recommendations to take your business elsewhere. I believe the people have spoken in this regard.
If your knowledge is "advanced" and you know exactly what you want, give AES a try, but be prepared to wait. Otherwise, guys like Kyle at TMS, Randy at PER, Steve at Legend - these are all people that have the foresight and instinct to look at an engine build from an inexperienced first time clients point of view. THESE are the types of guys I prefer to do business with because they not only are knowledgeable, but at the end of the day, they understand that they're employed because of people like us.
Admittedly, I made the mistake of telling Brian I was in no rush, which I believe was a cardinal sin on my part. I believe what happened was I was put on the back burner, for lack of a better description, once it was discovered that my direction was fluctuating. First engine build, he has my cylinder heads AND the engine for my car. Where on earth else am I going to go other than back to AES?!? NOT ANYMORE.
![Mr. Cool](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_cool.gif)
The only real benefits of my dealings with AES is I've dealt with several other engine builders since who have been able to discuss both financial and mechanical benefits of machining and specifying a high performance build. AES is not strong in the customer service department, this isn't even a question at this point in the game. One good job will yield 5 recommendations, one poor job will yield 30 recommendations to take your business elsewhere. I believe the people have spoken in this regard.
If your knowledge is "advanced" and you know exactly what you want, give AES a try, but be prepared to wait. Otherwise, guys like Kyle at TMS, Randy at PER, Steve at Legend - these are all people that have the foresight and instinct to look at an engine build from an inexperienced first time clients point of view. THESE are the types of guys I prefer to do business with because they not only are knowledgeable, but at the end of the day, they understand that they're employed because of people like us.
![Happy](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_stretch.gif)
#75
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Oh lord. This just keeps getting more and more interesting. And no response from AES.
![The Jester](https://ls1tech.com/forums/images/smilies/LS1Tech/gr_jest.gif)
#76
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I was at AES yesterday. They had probably 40 builds ongoing in their machine room that would make a $10K LSX build seem like a valve job to many other shops.
They have 1 lady answering phones (not empowered) and Brian (great guy) and Mike (seems like a great guy also) running all the errands and taking all the phone calls and planning all the builds - This customer service crap comes down to time and incoming calls from my point of view.
You may get a shop who spends all day on the phone with you talking about your build and going back and forth about what part could be better than another. From my perspective, AES is not a shoot the **** with you company. They want to you to tell them what you need build (Race Car Program Shop) and a targeted completion date and they will tell you if they can accomodate you.
I directed them to all of these threads. They have not decided if they want to respond yet or not. I imagine if they will, some people on this forum they legitimately feel there was opportunity for improvement. Others, they feel, are just complainers and always will be.
Customer service is not this company's strong suit. Very good machine work is. If you don't think so, I wonder why they have probably 10 x275 builds going on right now all ready to ship out for big name vehicles?
They have 1 lady answering phones (not empowered) and Brian (great guy) and Mike (seems like a great guy also) running all the errands and taking all the phone calls and planning all the builds - This customer service crap comes down to time and incoming calls from my point of view.
You may get a shop who spends all day on the phone with you talking about your build and going back and forth about what part could be better than another. From my perspective, AES is not a shoot the **** with you company. They want to you to tell them what you need build (Race Car Program Shop) and a targeted completion date and they will tell you if they can accomodate you.
I directed them to all of these threads. They have not decided if they want to respond yet or not. I imagine if they will, some people on this forum they legitimately feel there was opportunity for improvement. Others, they feel, are just complainers and always will be.
Customer service is not this company's strong suit. Very good machine work is. If you don't think so, I wonder why they have probably 10 x275 builds going on right now all ready to ship out for big name vehicles?
#77
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I was at AES yesterday. They had probably 40 builds ongoing in their machine room that would make a $10K LSX build seem like a valve job to many other shops.
They have 1 lady answering phones (not empowered) and Brian (great guy) and Mike (seems like a great guy also) running all the errands and taking all the phone calls and planning all the builds - This customer service crap comes down to time and incoming calls from my point of view.
You may get a shop who spends all day on the phone with you talking about your build and going back and forth about what part could be better than another. From my perspective, AES is not a shoot the **** with you company. They want to you to tell them what you need build (Race Car Program Shop) and a targeted completion date and they will tell you if they can accomodate you.
I directed them to all of these threads. They have decided if they want to respond yet or not. I imagine if they will, some people on this forum they legitimately feel there was opportunity for improvement. Others, they feel, are just complainers and always will be.
Customer service is not this company's strong suit. Very good machine work is. If you don't think so, I wonder why they have probably 10 x275 builds going on right now all ready to ship out for big name vehicles?
They have 1 lady answering phones (not empowered) and Brian (great guy) and Mike (seems like a great guy also) running all the errands and taking all the phone calls and planning all the builds - This customer service crap comes down to time and incoming calls from my point of view.
You may get a shop who spends all day on the phone with you talking about your build and going back and forth about what part could be better than another. From my perspective, AES is not a shoot the **** with you company. They want to you to tell them what you need build (Race Car Program Shop) and a targeted completion date and they will tell you if they can accomodate you.
I directed them to all of these threads. They have decided if they want to respond yet or not. I imagine if they will, some people on this forum they legitimately feel there was opportunity for improvement. Others, they feel, are just complainers and always will be.
Customer service is not this company's strong suit. Very good machine work is. If you don't think so, I wonder why they have probably 10 x275 builds going on right now all ready to ship out for big name vehicles?
My response to that would be:
A) I don't feel bad for AES being busy. 10 X275 builds and $10K LSx builds that look like Valve Jobs compared to the rest, you'd think they'd have the capital to hire someone and scale like most successful young companies do. Or, maybe it's that the ownership group is comfortable with current revenues, and doesn't wish to see any decrease in cash flow.
B) I cannot, nor can any human do anything about time. It's a depreciating asset. If three people cannot perform the work needed to operate efficiently, and clearly have the capital required to bring on a fourth, then why has this not already been done? They're shooting themselves in the foot with their current business model, and it's pushing potential and previous clientele to rival organizations. How does one argue that this is good business?!?
C) Customer Service is defined by the following: The assistance and advice provided by a company to those people who buy or use its products or services.
AES has made it clear that my money, as well as other customers past, present and future, is no good to them. I guess us middle class folk will seek our machining work elsewhere. This isn't because it's necessarily the route we've chosen to go, it's because we've been driven to investigate outside options.
Good luck with your build. Mike IS a great guy, you're 100% spot on there. Brian, I'd be cautious with. Establish deadlines and don't pay them until they meet them. That's your best bet, otherwise I'd venture to guess you'll be on our side of the fence within the next few months.
P.S - It doesn't appear that AES is accredited with the BBB. Another sign of how seriously they seek client input. It's literally $700 to register. You'd think they could afford that much...
#78
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Yep valid points. My commentary in red.
I am very near geographically to the shop. That has helped me keep my sanity. Phones frustrate me with AES
You bring up a couple fantastic points.
My response to that would be:
A) I don't feel bad for AES being busy. 10 X275 builds and $10K LSx builds that look like Valve Jobs compared to the rest, you'd think they'd have the capital to hire someone and scale like most successful young companies do. Or, maybe it's that the ownership group is comfortable with current revenues, and doesn't wish to see any decrease in cash flow.
Agreed. I believe you hit it on the head. Owners are more interested in race program builds than anything else. My perspective.
B) I cannot, nor can any human do anything about time. It's a depreciating asset. If three people cannot perform the work needed to operate efficiently, and clearly have the capital required to bring on a fourth, then why has this not already been done? They're shooting themselves in the foot with their current business model, and it's pushing potential and previous clientele to rival organizations. How does one argue that this is good business?!?
I don't think they care to lose LS budget build business. THey are not sponsors here any longer. I don't believe they are shooting themselves in the foot either. Car shops are always evolving or they die. Evo's were awesome for honda shops who needed better margin revenue opportunities. Then when Evo's got cheap and bills paid with mom and dads credit cards, GTR's were awesome. Back to better margin and opportunity. LSX is strange. It could be a $40K dart billet block build with bryant crank and mozez heads or it could be Jr. down the street with a 5.3 budget build who wants the same time and service as the race team with the $40K build. From a good business perspective you have to weigh what is important to you. Nordstrom like customer service is for people who pay a premium for their excellent, niche product. Walmart like customer service is for people who want dirt cheap product quickly and easily. AES has both sides of the fence to deal with because they are by trade an LSX engine builder. Unfortunately they accept all builds and try to be nice to everyone but reality is the cream of the cream get the most attention. Period. That is actually good business. If you owned a company that serviced multiple accounts ranging in size from $1M to $1B of business. Would you put your best account manager with your smallest company? No
C) Customer Service is defined by the following: The assistance and advice provided by a company to those people who buy or use its products or services.
AES has made it clear that my money, as well as other customers past, present and future, is no good to them. I guess us middle class folk will seek our machining work elsewhere. This isn't because it's necessarily the route we've chosen to go, it's because we've been driven to investigate outside options.
The only thing you can do as a consumer is vote with your money
Good luck with your build. Mike IS a great guy, you're 100% spot on there. Brian, I'd be cautious with. Establish deadlines and don't pay them until they meet them. That's your best bet, otherwise I'd venture to guess you'll be on our side of the fence within the next few months.
My response to that would be:
A) I don't feel bad for AES being busy. 10 X275 builds and $10K LSx builds that look like Valve Jobs compared to the rest, you'd think they'd have the capital to hire someone and scale like most successful young companies do. Or, maybe it's that the ownership group is comfortable with current revenues, and doesn't wish to see any decrease in cash flow.
Agreed. I believe you hit it on the head. Owners are more interested in race program builds than anything else. My perspective.
B) I cannot, nor can any human do anything about time. It's a depreciating asset. If three people cannot perform the work needed to operate efficiently, and clearly have the capital required to bring on a fourth, then why has this not already been done? They're shooting themselves in the foot with their current business model, and it's pushing potential and previous clientele to rival organizations. How does one argue that this is good business?!?
I don't think they care to lose LS budget build business. THey are not sponsors here any longer. I don't believe they are shooting themselves in the foot either. Car shops are always evolving or they die. Evo's were awesome for honda shops who needed better margin revenue opportunities. Then when Evo's got cheap and bills paid with mom and dads credit cards, GTR's were awesome. Back to better margin and opportunity. LSX is strange. It could be a $40K dart billet block build with bryant crank and mozez heads or it could be Jr. down the street with a 5.3 budget build who wants the same time and service as the race team with the $40K build. From a good business perspective you have to weigh what is important to you. Nordstrom like customer service is for people who pay a premium for their excellent, niche product. Walmart like customer service is for people who want dirt cheap product quickly and easily. AES has both sides of the fence to deal with because they are by trade an LSX engine builder. Unfortunately they accept all builds and try to be nice to everyone but reality is the cream of the cream get the most attention. Period. That is actually good business. If you owned a company that serviced multiple accounts ranging in size from $1M to $1B of business. Would you put your best account manager with your smallest company? No
C) Customer Service is defined by the following: The assistance and advice provided by a company to those people who buy or use its products or services.
AES has made it clear that my money, as well as other customers past, present and future, is no good to them. I guess us middle class folk will seek our machining work elsewhere. This isn't because it's necessarily the route we've chosen to go, it's because we've been driven to investigate outside options.
The only thing you can do as a consumer is vote with your money
Good luck with your build. Mike IS a great guy, you're 100% spot on there. Brian, I'd be cautious with. Establish deadlines and don't pay them until they meet them. That's your best bet, otherwise I'd venture to guess you'll be on our side of the fence within the next few months.
#79
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You're spot on though, that a high dollar, high margin job is going to get the attention. I definitely understand that, I'm just trying to back track to when AES lost it's desire to cater to smaller guys - which from what I have gathered was after Fraser left, but I could be wrong.
I truly do wish your build the best. Please keep us posted. I think I speak for the majority when I say that I don't wish bad goods or services upon anyone. It's just unfortunate that there is such a sizable crowd that feels just that way about AES.