Injectors and fuel system for E85
10-15-2013, 05:00 AM
#1
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Injectors and fuel system for E85 2003 TTiX LS6 engine with 8.5 compression. looking to rebuild it and optimize it for E85 when set on kill. car is currently at 800 at the tire with 17.5 psi and some heavy meth from the Alchy control system. I'm installing a Haltech ECM which has a driver box to provide the amps to run the pump and the capability to control the meth pump and replace the current progressive controller to put everything under the control of the Haltech. sounds interesting but not too many folks have done it yet! might represent some tuning challenges. anyway enough background.
I'm looking to make similar HP (maybe bump it up to 900 at the tire).
considering the bosch 129 injectors or a siemens 120 injector as I think they would have enough flow. which would be the best choice for E85?
I know I'll need some serious upgrades to the fuel system. so many choices out there and honestly the vette is a PITA with the stupid dual tanks and accessing them. ECS, Lonnies dual pumper, Aeromotive 1000 with a controller? don't know which way to go and looking for advice.
I'm also considering using EGTs on each cyl to help with the tuning but its another 1500 for that setup and I'm wondering if it's "overkill" and tuning with the dual widebands will be enough. it would be nice to see what each cyl is doing, but it's a little spendy combined with all the other upgrades I'm doing.
for the "hardware" I'm adding champion 3" downpipes, and some .82 housings to the existing turbos. not entirely sure if I have the 62 or 57 turbos in there now as I didn't build the car.
should be a fun project. really till debating on a few things like
should I just run E85 and not worry about the Alchy control system at all (E85 with enough flow should work fine) or is it better to have some "meth on the side" to help with the tuning and running on pump gas only (which I'll do most of the time, 600 at the tire is good enough for the street)
also, car has a RPM 4L65E automatic built for 800 rwhp. I'm going to "push that" a little with going 900 at the tire. looking to tune the part throttle operation better and for that I'll need the HP Tuners as the Haltech doens't yet control the tranny.
Kinda wished I had gone with the holley dominator as I think it will control the tranny too, but I got a nice discount on the haltech at corvettes at carlisle.
also looking for a paddle shifter solution but haven't found anything that works well with the vette. may be a bump shifter on the floor, but again, not too many people mod the shifting so it doesn't seem like much is out there.
tia for any suggestions, going to tear into it prior to thanksgiving so I'm in the homework phase.
I'm looking to make similar HP (maybe bump it up to 900 at the tire).
considering the bosch 129 injectors or a siemens 120 injector as I think they would have enough flow. which would be the best choice for E85?
I know I'll need some serious upgrades to the fuel system. so many choices out there and honestly the vette is a PITA with the stupid dual tanks and accessing them. ECS, Lonnies dual pumper, Aeromotive 1000 with a controller? don't know which way to go and looking for advice.
I'm also considering using EGTs on each cyl to help with the tuning but its another 1500 for that setup and I'm wondering if it's "overkill" and tuning with the dual widebands will be enough. it would be nice to see what each cyl is doing, but it's a little spendy combined with all the other upgrades I'm doing.
for the "hardware" I'm adding champion 3" downpipes, and some .82 housings to the existing turbos. not entirely sure if I have the 62 or 57 turbos in there now as I didn't build the car.
should be a fun project. really till debating on a few things like
should I just run E85 and not worry about the Alchy control system at all (E85 with enough flow should work fine) or is it better to have some "meth on the side" to help with the tuning and running on pump gas only (which I'll do most of the time, 600 at the tire is good enough for the street)
also, car has a RPM 4L65E automatic built for 800 rwhp. I'm going to "push that" a little with going 900 at the tire. looking to tune the part throttle operation better and for that I'll need the HP Tuners as the Haltech doens't yet control the tranny.
Kinda wished I had gone with the holley dominator as I think it will control the tranny too, but I got a nice discount on the haltech at corvettes at carlisle.
also looking for a paddle shifter solution but haven't found anything that works well with the vette. may be a bump shifter on the floor, but again, not too many people mod the shifting so it doesn't seem like much is out there.
tia for any suggestions, going to tear into it prior to thanksgiving so I'm in the homework phase.
10-15-2013, 06:59 AM
#2
I can only provide some guidance from what I have seen in the Supra world regarding E85. At least up here in the Northeast E85 can fluctuate quite a bit in alcohol content and also "cleanliness". When I had my setup (which I never ran but many of my friends did successfully) I switched over all of my lines to PTFE fuel lines. Some people have had success with "typical stainless steel lines" but I also know a few people who have had issues. If you will go with E85 use stainless steel fuel filters. I had 100 micron filter from the gas tank to fuel lines to a 40 micron filter before splitting into the rail. I know a few guys who had paper filters and had issues and also a few guys that had clogged injectors <5k miles after purchasing them new.
With that being said that stuff is the **** if you have access to it. Buddy with a mild tune pulled mid 500s on pump and 760-ish rwhp on E85 and 31 psi....again on a Supra setup.
With that being said that stuff is the **** if you have access to it. Buddy with a mild tune pulled mid 500s on pump and 760-ish rwhp on E85 and 31 psi....again on a Supra setup.
10-15-2013, 08:26 AM
#4
TECH Regular
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 456
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes the ethatnol content varies a lot and if your EFI isn't setup to compensate for the changes you will have to manually tune for the variation. We've only had E70 winter blend year round for a couple of years in our area, but we have traveled to Indiana/Wi a couple of times this year and gotten 85%+ and had to tune for it. The engine in my car has a rowdy cam and the EFI dosn't like closed loop at low RPM so self learn is turned off below 4000rpms. Your compression ratio is too low, we run a 2 valve relief flat top 370 with L92 heads and LS9 gaskets and have no issues with high boost on E85 or up to 8# on 93 gas. Fuel system is all Holley -12 tank to filter, 100 micron, 1800 Dominator pump, 10 Micron filter, 1/2" aluminum line, Y, -6 to each rail, Holley reg, 3/8" aluminum return to tank. Fuel system (pump) tapped out at 1050-1100 flywheel must keep 10 micron changed. If you don't think it's streetable I drove it to Indy last weekend 1000 miles round trip and won True Street, 8.63 average best pass 8.59@159
10-15-2013, 11:44 AM
#6
10 Second Club
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Phx,Az
Posts: 356
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes the ethatnol content varies a lot and if your EFI isn't setup to compensate for the changes you will have to manually tune for the variation. We've only had E70 winter blend year round for a couple of years in our area, but we have traveled to Indiana/Wi a couple of times this year and gotten 85%+ and had to tune for it. The engine in my car has a rowdy cam and the EFI dosn't like closed loop at low RPM so self learn is turned off below 4000rpms. Your compression ratio is too low, we run a 2 valve relief flat top 370 with L92 heads and LS9 gaskets and have no issues with high boost on E85 or up to 8# on 93 gas. Fuel system is all Holley -12 tank to filter, 100 micron, 1800 Dominator pump, 10 Micron filter, 1/2" aluminum line, Y, -6 to each rail, Holley reg, 3/8" aluminum return to tank. Fuel system (pump) tapped out at 1050-1100 flywheel must keep 10 micron changed. If you don't think it's streetable I drove it to Indy last weekend 1000 miles round trip and won True Street, 8.63 average best pass 8.59@159
Trending Topics
10-17-2013, 04:31 AM
#8
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 355
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
the haltech has a flex fuel sensor so it can compensate for some variations in the alchy content.
thinking of the bosch 127 lb injectors. but maybe I shoud go a big bigger
looking to go to about 900 at the tire as thats all the motor can likely take
might be upgrading the rods and pistons and going to 1/2 head studs, but looking to stay with an LS6 block.
do you all think I should switch to an iron block or even an LSX block?
I know 900 is kinda pushing the limits of the LS6 block and factory crank but honestly I'll be driving the car most of the time at 700 at the tire which is plenty for all but the ocassional street freak.
thinking of the bosch 127 lb injectors. but maybe I shoud go a big bigger
looking to go to about 900 at the tire as thats all the motor can likely take
might be upgrading the rods and pistons and going to 1/2 head studs, but looking to stay with an LS6 block.
do you all think I should switch to an iron block or even an LSX block?
I know 900 is kinda pushing the limits of the LS6 block and factory crank but honestly I'll be driving the car most of the time at 700 at the tire which is plenty for all but the ocassional street freak.
10-17-2013, 07:44 AM
#9
U can tune for the variation of E85, but ur not really going to hurt anything if u run say E70 through it on an e85 tune. The car will just run more rich. Since its 85% ethanol and 15% gasoline, and requires more fuel, if it drops to 70% ethanol and 30% gasoline, it will just run more rich since its burning more gasoline than it did.
I bought twin walbro 450 E85 pumps and set them up in tank my self. Siemens makes a low z 220+ lb/hr injector made for E85
I bought twin walbro 450 E85 pumps and set them up in tank my self. Siemens makes a low z 220+ lb/hr injector made for E85
10-18-2013, 04:50 PM
#15
On The Tree
from the injector people I spoke with, you are going for about the same power as we make...going to need 160's with E85 and a well designed fuel delivery system..
10-24-2013, 10:47 AM
#17
11 Second Club
iTrader: (17)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 4,796
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my friend dan (dismitie with the blue 88mm firehawk ) traps over 155mpt at 3400lbs on e85 with a set of fic 127lb injectors. he says hes at 100% duty cycle now. im not sure of the rest of his fuel system is though.
i have a magnafuel 4303, -12 from tank to pump. -10 from pump to rails. -8 on rail crossover and i have fic 103lb injectors. i have meth injection but im gonna run e85 as well, just not sure how far the 103s will take me
i have a magnafuel 4303, -12 from tank to pump. -10 from pump to rails. -8 on rail crossover and i have fic 103lb injectors. i have meth injection but im gonna run e85 as well, just not sure how far the 103s will take me
