Behind the wheel difference between superchargers and turbos?
01-22-2014, 06:28 AM
#41
Well since no one has posted a turbo graph, i will post mine.
Both of the procharged cars have about 500tq at 3500rpm and mine does too. The difference in "feeling" is that i get close to my peak torque much sooner and carry it throughout my powerband. You can see the area in the graph where people say its like the car got kicked in the *** and its that region where the car hits full boost. I ran a 26" M/T's on a 16" rim all last year and had very minor traction issues. I mean seriously, how much time do you spend below 3500rpm if you are ripping on the car?
The two powerbands are very different but as you can see if you compare the two graphs, the turbo graph has a lot more power under the curve. The tune matters a lot more in a turbo car because you can get very close to no lag. Both cars will be fast but there is nothing like the wildness of a turbo car.
Both of the procharged cars have about 500tq at 3500rpm and mine does too. The difference in "feeling" is that i get close to my peak torque much sooner and carry it throughout my powerband. You can see the area in the graph where people say its like the car got kicked in the *** and its that region where the car hits full boost. I ran a 26" M/T's on a 16" rim all last year and had very minor traction issues. I mean seriously, how much time do you spend below 3500rpm if you are ripping on the car?
The two powerbands are very different but as you can see if you compare the two graphs, the turbo graph has a lot more power under the curve. The tune matters a lot more in a turbo car because you can get very close to no lag. Both cars will be fast but there is nothing like the wildness of a turbo car.
Last edited by Ryans99ls1; 01-22-2014 at 06:37 AM.
06-21-2014, 11:25 AM
#43
Bringing this back up because it's in line with my build goals.
I see a lot of responses from people using Pro-Chargers but what about a roots blower? I love the way roots blown vehicles drive. The throttle response and torque are so fun. I've never driven a modern turbo car besides a diesel. The car is purely a street car and my goals are modest power wise. I'm actually more interested in enjoying the drive and making the power where I want it. Because of my setup, which ever route I choose will require a lot of fabricating.
I'm trying to decide if I should attempt to build a turbo motor, single or twin, that drives like a roots blown car would. Is it possible? Lets say low boost, 6-8 psi, and a 2000-6000 rpm power band. I've got a lot of research to do and a lot to learn so should I even consider a turbo setup? I figure it will be easier to fabricate the piping and exhaust manifolds than to fabricate a intercooled intake manifold. Unless it's all for naught of course. In which case, I would rather focus my attention on adapting the roots blower.
Thanks
I see a lot of responses from people using Pro-Chargers but what about a roots blower? I love the way roots blown vehicles drive. The throttle response and torque are so fun. I've never driven a modern turbo car besides a diesel. The car is purely a street car and my goals are modest power wise. I'm actually more interested in enjoying the drive and making the power where I want it. Because of my setup, which ever route I choose will require a lot of fabricating.
I'm trying to decide if I should attempt to build a turbo motor, single or twin, that drives like a roots blown car would. Is it possible? Lets say low boost, 6-8 psi, and a 2000-6000 rpm power band. I've got a lot of research to do and a lot to learn so should I even consider a turbo setup? I figure it will be easier to fabricate the piping and exhaust manifolds than to fabricate a intercooled intake manifold. Unless it's all for naught of course. In which case, I would rather focus my attention on adapting the roots blower.
Thanks
06-21-2014, 07:07 PM
#44
Ive owned a pickup with a whipple, a 09 ctsv, a 9:1 head n cam d1sc 6spd ss, and have driven a 6spd 5.3 with a on3 and huron kit. The procharged car made 600 at wheels and ran 6.60 on 325/50/15 MTs at 16lbs and the on3 and 5.3 made 660 at 18lbs. The ctsv is very instant boost but the heat soak is terrible!! I personally wont have another one!! The turbo setup feels waay stronger bhind the wheel until you shift and the D1sc setup would just fly through the shift with little boost loss. I personally would rather have the turbo car in an automatic or the 6spd!! Remember Im talking about the D1SC as the new variable head unit may be a blast to own but Id rather have the turbo car!!
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06-22-2014, 12:02 PM
#47
With a 6 speed, I have heard more people say go Procharged since you don't have to respool after a shift. I'm sure you can minimize that with a proper turbo setup with all the different variables, but I love knowing that if I'm above 2500rpm, I'm going to have plenty of instant torque.
06-22-2014, 12:24 PM
#48
9 Second Club
Bringing this back up because it's in line with my build goals.
I see a lot of responses from people using Pro-Chargers but what about a roots blower? I love the way roots blown vehicles drive. The throttle response and torque are so fun. I've never driven a modern turbo car besides a diesel. The car is purely a street car and my goals are modest power wise. I'm actually more interested in enjoying the drive and making the power where I want it. Because of my setup, which ever route I choose will require a lot of fabricating.
I'm trying to decide if I should attempt to build a turbo motor, single or twin, that drives like a roots blown car would. Is it possible? Lets say low boost, 6-8 psi, and a 2000-6000 rpm power band. I've got a lot of research to do and a lot to learn so should I even consider a turbo setup? I figure it will be easier to fabricate the piping and exhaust manifolds than to fabricate a intercooled intake manifold. Unless it's all for naught of course. In which case, I would rather focus my attention on adapting the roots blower.
Thanks
I see a lot of responses from people using Pro-Chargers but what about a roots blower? I love the way roots blown vehicles drive. The throttle response and torque are so fun. I've never driven a modern turbo car besides a diesel. The car is purely a street car and my goals are modest power wise. I'm actually more interested in enjoying the drive and making the power where I want it. Because of my setup, which ever route I choose will require a lot of fabricating.
I'm trying to decide if I should attempt to build a turbo motor, single or twin, that drives like a roots blown car would. Is it possible? Lets say low boost, 6-8 psi, and a 2000-6000 rpm power band. I've got a lot of research to do and a lot to learn so should I even consider a turbo setup? I figure it will be easier to fabricate the piping and exhaust manifolds than to fabricate a intercooled intake manifold. Unless it's all for naught of course. In which case, I would rather focus my attention on adapting the roots blower.
Thanks
However with modest goals, yes you probably could achieve it with a pair of small turbos. It wouldnt be exactly the same, but it'd be pretty damn close, and you'd have easy access to effective chargecooling, unlike with a valley mounted blower.
But with such modest goals....a 454 n/a probably wouldnt feel so bad either.
06-22-2014, 12:25 PM
#49
With a 6 speed, I have heard more people say go Procharged since you don't have to respool after a shift. I'm sure you can minimize that with a proper turbo setup with all the different variables, but I love knowing that if I'm above 2500rpm, I'm going to have plenty of instant torque.
Thanks guys. I appreciate and welcome the feedback.
06-22-2014, 12:28 PM
#50
If you really want something that drives like a rootes blower....then it probably makes the most sense to install a rootes blower.
However with modest goals, yes you probably could achieve it with a pair of small turbos. It wouldnt be exactly the same, but it'd be pretty damn close, and you'd have easy access to effective chargecooling, unlike with a valley mounted blower.
But with such modest goals....a 454 n/a probably wouldnt feel so bad either.
However with modest goals, yes you probably could achieve it with a pair of small turbos. It wouldnt be exactly the same, but it'd be pretty damn close, and you'd have easy access to effective chargecooling, unlike with a valley mounted blower.
But with such modest goals....a 454 n/a probably wouldnt feel so bad either.
06-22-2014, 12:43 PM
#51
9 Second Club
Never said BB, I meant a 454 LSX based motor, and you could achieve it in alloy.
Using a pair of small turbos, you'll be able to get a decent increase in power, with boost very early in the rpm range without any difficulty at all.
AGP offer these for their basic TT kit for the modern Camaro's http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...-turbocharger/
They're pretty tiny, not expensive and should spool very fast on most motors.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288657
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304406
Using a pair of small turbos, you'll be able to get a decent increase in power, with boost very early in the rpm range without any difficulty at all.
AGP offer these for their basic TT kit for the modern Camaro's http://www.agpturbo.com/borg-warner-...-turbocharger/
They're pretty tiny, not expensive and should spool very fast on most motors.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288657
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304406
06-22-2014, 12:55 PM
#53
9 Second Club
I think some have even pushed into the 5xx range.
They wouldnt be cheap in alloy form, but they have been done.
http://www.erlperformance.com/erl-500-ci-turnkey
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...00-ci-lsx.html
Obviously you wouldnt even contemplate boost with any of those motors though
They wouldnt be cheap in alloy form, but they have been done.
http://www.erlperformance.com/erl-500-ci-turnkey
https://ls1tech.com/forums/generatio...00-ci-lsx.html
Obviously you wouldnt even contemplate boost with any of those motors though
06-22-2014, 01:32 PM
#54
Boost can be manipulated so easy to do exactly what you want with a turbo. I don't see the centri having much of an advantage anywhere
If you want a centri type torque curve to keep tires on the street with a turbo it isn't that difficult
Heck I have been 60-130 in 4.7 on a 17" 255 mickey mouse Walmart hankook tire with a 420 treadware on a plain asphalt highway..... no fancy traction control or anything. Just a simple two stage time based boost control strategy
If you want a centri type torque curve to keep tires on the street with a turbo it isn't that difficult
Heck I have been 60-130 in 4.7 on a 17" 255 mickey mouse Walmart hankook tire with a 420 treadware on a plain asphalt highway..... no fancy traction control or anything. Just a simple two stage time based boost control strategy
06-22-2014, 02:57 PM
#55
OP, you want a procharged car. You want a fun, backroads, canyon carver, and nothing will perform better and make you happier than a procharger.
Sure, you can get a turbo setup to mimic it, but it's not going to be a simple, cheap setup. I have exactly what you want, and do with my car exactly what you're looking to do. Have a really fun car that drives awesome from 2500-5000rpm with plenty of usable power that doesn't shock the drivetrain or destroy tires.
Sure, you can get a turbo setup to mimic it, but it's not going to be a simple, cheap setup. I have exactly what you want, and do with my car exactly what you're looking to do. Have a really fun car that drives awesome from 2500-5000rpm with plenty of usable power that doesn't shock the drivetrain or destroy tires.
06-22-2014, 10:48 PM
#57
OP, you want a procharged car. You want a fun, backroads, canyon carver, and nothing will perform better and make you happier than a procharger.Sure, you can get a turbo setup to mimic it, but it's not going to be a simple, cheap setup. I have exactly what you want, and do with my car exactly what you're looking to do. Have a really fun car that drives awesome from 2500-5000rpm with plenty of usable power that doesn't shock the drivetrain or destroy tires.
Last edited by Boo"SS"t; 06-22-2014 at 10:53 PM.
06-23-2014, 01:29 AM
#58
Wow! I think this kind of biased advise coming from a moderator that openly admits that he personally haven't actually driven a properly set-up LS turbo car is kind'a misleading. I'm not trying to be a jerk here. I'll give you props for giving a very informative stuff on other subjects in the past, but I don't know about this one, maybe it's just me.
No one will argue the under the curve power compared to a centri but having driven turbo and centri v8's a straight line is where most turbo's shine. In a corner I'll take my belt driven boost.
Really good traction control changes things.
06-23-2014, 03:01 AM
#59
9 Second Club
Two things.
The thread was resurrected by Snow Dog, so the last few responses are directed towards him.
In that respect, his desire for some torque and power between 2-6k on an LT1...really, a centri has no place in that request.
Yes one will make power, yes it will feel superb in the mid-upper rpm's. But at 2k ? Probably not that exciting.
Will a Rootes style offer performance in that range ? Absolutely, assuming total goals arent overly high.
Can a turbo setup be built to perform in that range ? Absolutely.
As for comments about a turbo building boost mid-corner. If you put your foot down with a centri/rootes it can potentially build boost faster than a turbo setup mid corner. So are those concerns valid ?
Not really. If it was a high powered, high boost turbo setup, then perhaps yes there are concerns. Nothing that cant easily be dealt with though, with some sort of intelligent control over boost with a turbo setup.
But the same could apply to a high boost high powered centri setup.
There are many ways to achieve the goals, all have good points and not so good. But all can be configured to perform one way or another.
The harder part comes when low traction scenarios are involved, or when seeking lots of power. But for mild setups, almost any will be great.
The thread was resurrected by Snow Dog, so the last few responses are directed towards him.
In that respect, his desire for some torque and power between 2-6k on an LT1...really, a centri has no place in that request.
Yes one will make power, yes it will feel superb in the mid-upper rpm's. But at 2k ? Probably not that exciting.
Will a Rootes style offer performance in that range ? Absolutely, assuming total goals arent overly high.
Can a turbo setup be built to perform in that range ? Absolutely.
As for comments about a turbo building boost mid-corner. If you put your foot down with a centri/rootes it can potentially build boost faster than a turbo setup mid corner. So are those concerns valid ?
Not really. If it was a high powered, high boost turbo setup, then perhaps yes there are concerns. Nothing that cant easily be dealt with though, with some sort of intelligent control over boost with a turbo setup.
But the same could apply to a high boost high powered centri setup.
There are many ways to achieve the goals, all have good points and not so good. But all can be configured to perform one way or another.
The harder part comes when low traction scenarios are involved, or when seeking lots of power. But for mild setups, almost any will be great.
06-23-2014, 06:33 AM
#60
Two things.
The thread was resurrected by Snow Dog, so the last few responses are directed towards him.
In that respect, his desire for some torque and power between 2-6k on an LT1...really, a centri has no place in that request.
Yes one will make power, yes it will feel superb in the mid-upper rpm's. But at 2k ? Probably not that exciting.
Will a Rootes style offer performance in that range ? Absolutely, assuming total goals arent overly high.
Can a turbo setup be built to perform in that range ? Absolutely.
As for comments about a turbo building boost mid-corner. If you put your foot down with a centri/rootes it can potentially build boost faster than a turbo setup mid corner. So are those concerns valid ?
Not really. If it was a high powered, high boost turbo setup, then perhaps yes there are concerns. Nothing that cant easily be dealt with though, with some sort of intelligent control over boost with a turbo setup.
But the same could apply to a high boost high powered centri setup.
There are many ways to achieve the goals, all have good points and not so good. But all can be configured to perform one way or another.
The harder part comes when low traction scenarios are involved, or when seeking lots of power. But for mild setups, almost any will be great.
The thread was resurrected by Snow Dog, so the last few responses are directed towards him.
In that respect, his desire for some torque and power between 2-6k on an LT1...really, a centri has no place in that request.
Yes one will make power, yes it will feel superb in the mid-upper rpm's. But at 2k ? Probably not that exciting.
Will a Rootes style offer performance in that range ? Absolutely, assuming total goals arent overly high.
Can a turbo setup be built to perform in that range ? Absolutely.
As for comments about a turbo building boost mid-corner. If you put your foot down with a centri/rootes it can potentially build boost faster than a turbo setup mid corner. So are those concerns valid ?
Not really. If it was a high powered, high boost turbo setup, then perhaps yes there are concerns. Nothing that cant easily be dealt with though, with some sort of intelligent control over boost with a turbo setup.
But the same could apply to a high boost high powered centri setup.
There are many ways to achieve the goals, all have good points and not so good. But all can be configured to perform one way or another.
The harder part comes when low traction scenarios are involved, or when seeking lots of power. But for mild setups, almost any will be great.
All great points.
With the electronic boost controllers you can set up a turbo car to do exactly what you want it to. Boost by gear, boost by rpm, ramp rates etc there is just about nothing that you can't do with a turbo car.