Self tuning Forced induction is here! Sorry dyno tuners, :(
12-21-2014, 04:57 AM
#121
9 Second Club
Please give me some examples?
These engines are basically the same as when they were invented over a 100 years ago. I remember the days when we had points in the distributor and tune consisted of setting them and getting the timing right. Adjust float levels, Jetting and accelerator pumps/arm/squirters then read the plugs....and they ran hard!
A tune today is basically the same except you use a computer to make the adjustments. It's easier to do but also easier to screw it up
These engines are basically the same as when they were invented over a 100 years ago. I remember the days when we had points in the distributor and tune consisted of setting them and getting the timing right. Adjust float levels, Jetting and accelerator pumps/arm/squirters then read the plugs....and they ran hard!
A tune today is basically the same except you use a computer to make the adjustments. It's easier to do but also easier to screw it up
Most are just assuming things like timing are correct, with a standalone system this should always be confirmed with a light especially when there are some different crank/cam triggers potentially in use.
And as you also say just as your carb had pumps/squirters etc, your ecu has facilities for this too and these will not be universal for every engine, and are tunable at various rpm's, rates of throttle opening etc so these also still need manually calibrated.
Transmission controls if that's being used too.
All of the above can be accommodated to a degree with a generic base tune, or best guess tune...or as would be referred to with other platforms, a mail order tune. But anyone who has had those mail order tunes know, they are far from perfect.
Its the same sort of deal here.
As said, basic running for fuel and spark are some of the easiest bits especially with the help that's available. But there must still be a good base to start from, and that base has to come from somewhere.
12-21-2014, 10:21 AM
#123
No it doesn't and even if you knew the timing was 100% accurate you could have three nearly identical builds and they could all like a different number to make the best power. It's still a good idea to find TDC and degree the cam so that in the future if changes are made you have an accurate baseline to work with.
12-21-2014, 11:03 AM
#124
Boost control, traction, launch control/2 step or whatever you want to call it, idle settings, various safety parameters whether rpm limits, boost limits, ensuring all sensors are calibrated correctly, and as you also mention, confirming with a timing light that timing commanded, is as seen at the plug. And as you'd be heavily reliant on knock sensors because of this dummy install, ensuring this is calibrated correctly for YOUR engine is very important so firstly it actually can detect real knock in the first place and also so it isnt always hearing things it thinks is knock, when it's just background noise.
Most are just assuming things like timing are correct, with a standalone system this should always be confirmed with a light especially when there are some different crank/cam triggers potentially in use.
And as you also say just as your carb had pumps/squirters etc, your ecu has facilities for this too and these will not be universal for every engine, and are tunable at various rpm's, rates of throttle opening etc so these also still need manually calibrated.
Transmission controls if that's being used too.
All of the above can be accommodated to a degree with a generic base tune, or best guess tune...or as would be referred to with other platforms, a mail order tune. But anyone who has had those mail order tunes know, they are far from perfect.
Its the same sort of deal here.
As said, basic running for fuel and spark are some of the easiest bits especially with the help that's available. But there must still be a good base to start from, and that base has to come from somewhere.
Most are just assuming things like timing are correct, with a standalone system this should always be confirmed with a light especially when there are some different crank/cam triggers potentially in use.
And as you also say just as your carb had pumps/squirters etc, your ecu has facilities for this too and these will not be universal for every engine, and are tunable at various rpm's, rates of throttle opening etc so these also still need manually calibrated.
Transmission controls if that's being used too.
All of the above can be accommodated to a degree with a generic base tune, or best guess tune...or as would be referred to with other platforms, a mail order tune. But anyone who has had those mail order tunes know, they are far from perfect.
Its the same sort of deal here.
As said, basic running for fuel and spark are some of the easiest bits especially with the help that's available. But there must still be a good base to start from, and that base has to come from somewhere.
I guess I assume that most people buying and installing these units will either know how to confirm TDC and also know how to degree a camshaft. If they don't or are to lazy to do it then they shouldn't be messing around under the hood in the first place. From everything I have read Holley does provide to pretty good base tunes to work from for most applications so you don't have to start from scratch. Paying a tuner can get very expensive so unless you have deep pockets you should at least try to learn the basics so you're not paying someone to spend countless hours to do it. If I had to pay shop rate to do it all it would be more than I could afford. I'd rather put that money into parts than labor.
I guess I'm a do it yourself kind of person and hate paying for something that I can learn how to do myself with basic or inexpensive tools.
I know a few people that show up at a local car shows and they paid someone to do the whole build and they really don't have a clue what they have under the hood, They are the ones that end up bitching because they spent 20k and grenaded the engine because of a failure they could have caught but didn't/couldn't because of ignorance. Then you have the person who can mess up a wet dream. They can take something that's working great and just can't keep their hand off of it and mess it up.
The more I think about it the more I have to agree with others.... Go to a reputable tuner unless you are willing to take the time to educate yourself before you get in over your head.
12-21-2014, 11:42 AM
#125
9 Second Club
If however there is an intelligent person tuning on a dyno seeking best power/torque....then no the numbers on screen dont matter so much.
But from a common sense, diagnostic and fault finding point of view, again 100% it does matter and should always be correct.
But what most people seem to be thinking with this "self tuning" BS, is they can simply plug n play and the engine will tune itself and run in an optimal and safe manner without going near a dyno or someone who can confirm all is well.
12-21-2014, 02:04 PM
#126
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No it doesn't and even if you knew the timing was 100% accurate you could have three nearly identical builds and they could all like a different number to make the best power. It's still a good idea to find TDC and degree the cam so that in the future if changes are made you have an accurate baseline to work with.
Or ignition advance?
Or cam advance?
Right?
Maybe.
Maybe not.
Bur who cares. It'll be tuned by computer itself. :-)
