Holley traction control
03-28-2014, 10:14 AM
#22
Gearing and MPH are constants assuming you have 100% traction. If you have these mapped correctly you can tell if you are losing traction without having the sensor on the wheels that are spinning. In the event of traction loss the RPM will read higher than it should at a given plot on the MPH map. If MPH/RPM get to far out of sync say 3-5%, the ECU could then pull timing until it was in sync again. It’s how the early AEM worked.
03-28-2014, 10:48 AM
#23
We are going to work on the Davis Traction Control and Holley EFI in the next few days. We have the sensor with 8 magnets that bolts up to the driveshaft yoke. By next week we hope to have it working. Running the self learning unit.
Built LS9 with T88 turbo, T56 Magnum, 8.8" Solid axle Mazda RX-7. Getting ready for Shift-Sector April 19-20th here on the West Coast (1/2 mile shootout).
Built LS9 with T88 turbo, T56 Magnum, 8.8" Solid axle Mazda RX-7. Getting ready for Shift-Sector April 19-20th here on the West Coast (1/2 mile shootout).
03-28-2014, 10:52 AM
#24
We are going to work on the Davis Traction Control and Holley EFI in the next few days. We have the sensor with 8 magnets that bolts up to the driveshaft yoke. By next week we hope to have it working. Running the self learning unit.
Built LS9 with T88 turbo, T56 Magnum, 8.8" Solid axle Mazda RX-7. Getting ready for Shift-Sector April 19-20th here on the West Coast (1/2 mile shootout).
Built LS9 with T88 turbo, T56 Magnum, 8.8" Solid axle Mazda RX-7. Getting ready for Shift-Sector April 19-20th here on the West Coast (1/2 mile shootout).
03-28-2014, 11:01 AM
#25
The drive shaft method may be easier, but either would work if setup properly.
Gearing and MPH are constants assuming you have 100% traction. If you have these mapped correctly you can tell if you are losing traction without having the sensor on the wheels that are spinning. In the event of traction loss the RPM will read higher than it should at a given plot on the MPH map. If MPH/RPM get to far out of sync say 3-5%, the ECU could then pull timing until it was in sync again. It’s how the early AEM worked.
Gearing and MPH are constants assuming you have 100% traction. If you have these mapped correctly you can tell if you are losing traction without having the sensor on the wheels that are spinning. In the event of traction loss the RPM will read higher than it should at a given plot on the MPH map. If MPH/RPM get to far out of sync say 3-5%, the ECU could then pull timing until it was in sync again. It’s how the early AEM worked.
03-28-2014, 11:25 AM
#26
We originally started using the front wheel speed when I ran the Joe O hyperkontrol boost controller, it's the best way to do boost control for a street car imo.
03-28-2014, 11:50 AM
#27
This concept makes the most sense to me. Since the front wheels never "slip" and readings should be constant. The RPM increase vs. front wheel speed should be a dead give away that traction is being lost (rear wheels spinning faster than front via equation calculated by RPM). It seems like the better position to measure. I guess im still confused on how the unit can accurately gauge wheel spin by only using the driveshaft speed being that DS speed is consistent with rpm increase
03-28-2014, 02:29 PM
#29
9 Second Club
Seems a novel approach. I guess if set up correctly it should work reasonably well. But any proper TCS system Ive seen always references driven wheel speeds against undriven for slip detection.
Using driveshaft speed only just adds some maybe's or assumptions into the equation. But how they're using it does make it a relatively simple system to install.
Not sure how it would deal with varying levels of traction loss though. You could easily maintain a fairly steady shaft rpm during a high speed drift/slide, but clearly it is traction loss.
The systems mentioned here seem to be aimed at straight line use only, and hard acceleration only.
As for a shaft speed sensor. Doesnt your transmission already have this ? Certainly the manual trans has a multi tooth trigger wheel on the output shaft, so there shouldnt be any need to add another pickup if you already have this ?
As for any talk of mph/rpm getting out of sync. It cant happen unless your clutch or transmission is slipping.
If you lose traction, both apparent mph and rpm's will rise if the speed reading is taken from driven wheels.
Using driveshaft speed only just adds some maybe's or assumptions into the equation. But how they're using it does make it a relatively simple system to install.
Not sure how it would deal with varying levels of traction loss though. You could easily maintain a fairly steady shaft rpm during a high speed drift/slide, but clearly it is traction loss.
The systems mentioned here seem to be aimed at straight line use only, and hard acceleration only.
As for a shaft speed sensor. Doesnt your transmission already have this ? Certainly the manual trans has a multi tooth trigger wheel on the output shaft, so there shouldnt be any need to add another pickup if you already have this ?
As for any talk of mph/rpm getting out of sync. It cant happen unless your clutch or transmission is slipping.
If you lose traction, both apparent mph and rpm's will rise if the speed reading is taken from driven wheels.
03-28-2014, 02:37 PM
#30
Seems a novel approach. I guess if set up correctly it should work reasonably well. But any proper TCS system Ive seen always references driven wheel speeds against undriven for slip detection.
Using driveshaft speed only just adds some maybe's or assumptions into the equation. But how they're using it does make it a relatively simple system to install.
Not sure how it would deal with varying levels of traction loss though. You could easily maintain a fairly steady shaft rpm during a high speed drift/slide, but clearly it is traction loss.
The systems mentioned here seem to be aimed at straight line use only, and hard acceleration only.
As for a shaft speed sensor. Doesnt your transmission already have this ? Certainly the manual trans has a multi tooth trigger wheel on the output shaft, so there shouldnt be any need to add another pickup if you already have this ?
As for any talk of mph/rpm getting out of sync. It cant happen unless your clutch or transmission is slipping.
If you lose traction, both apparent mph and rpm's will rise if the speed reading is taken from driven wheels.
Using driveshaft speed only just adds some maybe's or assumptions into the equation. But how they're using it does make it a relatively simple system to install.
Not sure how it would deal with varying levels of traction loss though. You could easily maintain a fairly steady shaft rpm during a high speed drift/slide, but clearly it is traction loss.
The systems mentioned here seem to be aimed at straight line use only, and hard acceleration only.
As for a shaft speed sensor. Doesnt your transmission already have this ? Certainly the manual trans has a multi tooth trigger wheel on the output shaft, so there shouldnt be any need to add another pickup if you already have this ?
As for any talk of mph/rpm getting out of sync. It cant happen unless your clutch or transmission is slipping.
If you lose traction, both apparent mph and rpm's will rise if the speed reading is taken from driven wheels.
Interested in hearing more about the output shaft on the T56... Anyone have any more detailed info on this?
03-28-2014, 04:04 PM
#34
I dug up 11 on the older T56's and 17 on the new versions. If anyone is reading this and knows something I don't lmk, 04' GTO trans here.
On a side note I sent Shannon and email asking him what he thought about using the T56 VSS on his box. IIRC someone mentioned the VSS sensors wont work but we'll see what Shannon says
On a side note I sent Shannon and email asking him what he thought about using the T56 VSS on his box. IIRC someone mentioned the VSS sensors wont work but we'll see what Shannon says
03-28-2014, 04:09 PM
#35
How would the rpm vs ds speed work for a auto car. The torque converter is sliding all the time in varying amounts.
I get it for a manual car but not the auto.
to me wheel speed vs wheel speed is the only way to do true tcc for a auto car
I get it for a manual car but not the auto.
to me wheel speed vs wheel speed is the only way to do true tcc for a auto car
03-28-2014, 04:26 PM
#36
9 Second Club
If we're talking about the same units here ? ie http://www.moretraction.com/Drag%20U...ey/EFI-TC1.htm
I dont think it references to engine rpm at all ?
It just assumes traction loss based on a sudden rise in driveshaft speed.
It's a very basic system really, and only aimed at short straight line use
I dont think it references to engine rpm at all ?
It just assumes traction loss based on a sudden rise in driveshaft speed.
It's a very basic system really, and only aimed at short straight line use
03-28-2014, 05:00 PM
#38
9 Second Club
Standard T56 uses a 2 wire VR sensor, and yes it produces a Sinewave like signal.
If the Holley requires a digital signal, no big deal. You can buy cheap signal conditioners to change the output to a digital square wave.
That cheap speed pickup linked was 2 wire also.
Or you could find or adapt a suitable 3 wire hall sensor and mount it in the trans in place of the factory sensor which will give you a digital signal.
either way, not overly difficult.
If the Holley requires a digital signal, no big deal. You can buy cheap signal conditioners to change the output to a digital square wave.
That cheap speed pickup linked was 2 wire also.
Or you could find or adapt a suitable 3 wire hall sensor and mount it in the trans in place of the factory sensor which will give you a digital signal.
either way, not overly difficult.
03-28-2014, 06:00 PM
#40
Launching!
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I have been working on software for my car. It's going to read front wheel and rear wheel speed and control boost and timing based on the wheel speed difference or tire spin. I will use ignition timing to control wheel spin. I have the charge air table set to given values at given temp an when wheel speed is present my system will send a fake given temp value so the ecu can reduce timing and depending on how much wheel spend will depend on what charge temp I send the ecu. And from that value the stock ecu or any ecu for that. Will drop the needed timing to control spin.
It's gonna have a 5 display that will be programable from traction control based on time and wheel spin. Just something I'm going to be playing with this year
Kerry
It's gonna have a 5 display that will be programable from traction control based on time and wheel spin. Just something I'm going to be playing with this year
Kerry