Lsx s475 car overheating need help!!!
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
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okay so i moved the rad forward away from the turbo ( temporary). I also did like i said i would and tried to run a pusher and a puller and it didnt seem to work. Still seeing 220+ after a half hour of idling.
You may be right with trying to run a pusher and puller simultaneously may hurt. So, tomorrow i will try to run just the puller by itself idling and report back with my findings.
remember, nothing we have tried so far has helped get us below 220+. Every test we've done so far has taken 30 minutes roughly to get to 220 so we're not gaining anything.
Ill report back tomorrow after i try just the puller.
-Cody
You may be right with trying to run a pusher and puller simultaneously may hurt. So, tomorrow i will try to run just the puller by itself idling and report back with my findings.
remember, nothing we have tried so far has helped get us below 220+. Every test we've done so far has taken 30 minutes roughly to get to 220 so we're not gaining anything.
Ill report back tomorrow after i try just the puller.
-Cody
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 634
Likes: 27
okay so i moved the rad forward away from the turbo ( temporary). I also did like i said i would and tried to run a pusher and a puller and it didnt seem to work. Still seeing 220+ after a half hour of idling.
You may be right with trying to run a pusher and puller simultaneously may hurt. So, tomorrow i will try to run just the puller by itself idling and report back with my findings.
remember, nothing we have tried so far has helped get us below 220+. Every test we've done so far has taken 30 minutes roughly to get to 220 so we're not gaining anything.
Ill report back tomorrow after i try just the puller.
-Cody
You may be right with trying to run a pusher and puller simultaneously may hurt. So, tomorrow i will try to run just the puller by itself idling and report back with my findings.
remember, nothing we have tried so far has helped get us below 220+. Every test we've done so far has taken 30 minutes roughly to get to 220 so we're not gaining anything.
Ill report back tomorrow after i try just the puller.
-Cody
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Shawnee, OK
Every 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen f body I have owned would get hot (215-220) if you just let it sit and idle in the garage or driveway or at a long red light. Air doesn't flow very good with these cars just sitting still. You need to get it out and get some air moving, or try putting a big *** fan in front of the car to simulate driving and see if that helps any. If you can get somewhere that you can get it up to highway speeds that would be best. (That is if you can get that far without it overheating) I would try the fan first.
IDK if you did or didnt, but get a front air dam on the car. Find some way and make it work, I doubt you will be able to cool trying to force the car to be a front feeder.
If its overheating at idle, you need better fans. My car with a stock radiator and twin derale pushers will sit under 180* idling all day long.
If its overheating at idle, you need better fans. My car with a stock radiator and twin derale pushers will sit under 180* idling all day long.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
havnt done this yet. Double wrapping it for sure tomorrow though.
Yeah your right. I do need more fan. After feeling the fan on my old shitbox 2000 neon, there's no comparison. and thats an auto 2.0 let alone a big turbo lsx.
Im thinking if my rad was thinnner that'd help but i dont want to go thinner so i need more cfm to accommodate the thicker radiator.
I took my old neon fan ( 13.5" puller ) And stood being it while it was wired to my jump box and i couldnt even hear because it was blowing so hard.
Tried the same test with the permacool pusher/pullers, no comparison whatsoever. so at this point even if my whole problem isnt these fans, they still suck regardless.
Looking into fan options. Ill post a picture i drew of the room and measurements i have showing possibilities. Im not opposed to an oem style fan, but it has to fit with the existing measurements listed below.
-Cody
Every 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen f body I have owned would get hot (215-220) if you just let it sit and idle in the garage or driveway or at a long red light. Air doesn't flow very good with these cars just sitting still. You need to get it out and get some air moving, or try putting a big *** fan in front of the car to simulate driving and see if that helps any. If you can get somewhere that you can get it up to highway speeds that would be best. (That is if you can get that far without it overheating) I would try the fan first.
IDK if you did or didnt, but get a front air dam on the car. Find some way and make it work, I doubt you will be able to cool trying to force the car to be a front feeder.
If its overheating at idle, you need better fans. My car with a stock radiator and twin derale pushers will sit under 180* idling all day long.
If its overheating at idle, you need better fans. My car with a stock radiator and twin derale pushers will sit under 180* idling all day long.
Im thinking if my rad was thinnner that'd help but i dont want to go thinner so i need more cfm to accommodate the thicker radiator.
I took my old neon fan ( 13.5" puller ) And stood being it while it was wired to my jump box and i couldnt even hear because it was blowing so hard.
Tried the same test with the permacool pusher/pullers, no comparison whatsoever. so at this point even if my whole problem isnt these fans, they still suck regardless.
Looking into fan options. Ill post a picture i drew of the room and measurements i have showing possibilities. Im not opposed to an oem style fan, but it has to fit with the existing measurements listed below.
-Cody
I haven't read the whole thread, but looking at the pictures on the first page there is too much gap between the radiator and intercooler. When you get moving it is going to cause turbulance inbetween the two and decrease effeciency. Back in my Honda days we tested this theory and came to the conclusion that the condenser, intercooler, and radiator all need the least amount of room between them as possible for maximum flow and minimal turbulance. This isnt going to be as critical idling, but I bet it still minimizes airflow through the radiator quite a bit. I will say that if you are able to idle it in the summer heat for 30 minutes and it just gets up to 220 degrees, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem. 220 (218 I think) is when the fans come on from the factory, it's not really cause for concern. If I were you I would get it out on the road before I beat myself up over this, and if 220 idling bothers you upgrade your fans and turn them on sooner.
Last edited by slowsol95; Aug 21, 2015 at 10:22 PM.
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Verdad Gallardo Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
I haven't read the whole thread, but looking at the pictures on the first page there is too much gap between the radiator and intercooler. When you get moving it is going to cause turbulance inbetween the two and decrease effeciency. Back in my Honda days we tested this theory and came to the conclusion that the condenser, intercooler, and radiator all need the least amount of room between them as possible for maximum flow and minimal turbulance. This isnt going to be as critical idling, but I bet it still minimizes airflow through the radiator quite a bit. I will say that if you are able to idle it in the summer heat for 30 minutes and it just gets up to 220 degrees, that doesn't necessarily mean you have a problem. 220 (218 I think) is when the fans come on from the factory, it's not really cause for concern. If I were you I would get it out on the road before I beat myself up over this, and if 220 idling bothers you upgrade your fans and turn them on sooner.
okay so a little more to add to this. So, i switched the fans around to pullers and threw my shroud on as well. Heres a picture of what it looked like and heres the numbers below.
150 to minutes
170 to 15minutes
190 to 22 minutes
200 to 30 minutes
205 to 35 minutes
210 to 40 minutes
210 50 minutes with shop fan on it for 5 min. Stayed stable
215 to 55 minutes after that.
Lsx cooling/ timing questions at idle. Im at 19 degrees spark advance at idle, i have a 230/ 234 cam with a 116 lobe separation. Once i hit 200 degrees, car goes up a degree a minute idling( so it seems) . I see so many people running baby radiators and fans with no issues and here i am. So, is my issue cooling related or tune related. Car isnt tuned, but the afr is good at idle and timing is 19 degrees.
Also, to check timing is adjusted right, without getting into too much here , dont i just adjust timing until the vaccum is as much as itll go? I have 2 tunes ive messed with, one with 14 afr and 19 degrees at idle, and another at 12.5 afr and 34 degrees at idle.
I can use either as a starting point.
Wanted to get some clarity before i try anything else. Example, my friends ls fox same setup as mine, has a smaller rad and a smaller cfm fan with no shroud and his never goes over 195.
Last edited by xxwhiteneonxx; Aug 23, 2015 at 09:49 AM.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
okay so i have exhuasted so many options including the tune, and nothing is helping. I have drove my truck and got it up to temp, and then tested it temp wise. Truck is same block, same heads ( 799s) Front steam ports open, rears closed, so pretty much the same as my camaro. Only things differently between the 2 is the truck has a heater core whereas the camaro has the heater ports plugged off. The truck has the 195 thermostat also, where the camaro has a 180 degree. Anyways heres the temp i took between the 2 both at 210 degrees.
truck: radiator fins 85
rubber upper rad hose 180
lower rubber rad hose 140
water pump bungs where rad hoses attatch 171
radiator 172 hotside
radiator cold side 110
camaro: fins starting from hot side to cool side 173/166/120
193 upper rubber hose
171 lower rubber hose
water pump 204 upper 184 lower
truck: radiator fins 85
rubber upper rad hose 180
lower rubber rad hose 140
water pump bungs where rad hoses attatch 171
radiator 172 hotside
radiator cold side 110
camaro: fins starting from hot side to cool side 173/166/120
193 upper rubber hose
171 lower rubber hose
water pump 204 upper 184 lower
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 634
Likes: 27
I guess I dont really see the problem. You cave a turbo on the with a down pipe by the waterpump and radiator. The truck gets a tone more air moving through the front. Get a better turbo blanket and wrap the down pipe good.
You're right there isn't a problem. OP why are you so convinced that something is wrong? If you idled the car in a shop with how hot it is outside and it took almost an hour to get to where the fans would turn on from the factory, I fail to see the problem. Have you even had it on the road yet? You are seriously underestimating how much extra heat a turbo and 4" downpipe makes. You have probably quadroupled the amount of exhaust surface area in the engine bay from a factory ls engine, it isn't going to run as cool with all things being equal. Like I said in my previous post, if the temp at idle bothers you upgrade the cfm on the fans and turn them on sooner. Other than getting the turbo out of the engine bay, you don't really have any other options. Goodluck.
may be a silly question, but simple enough to test/try.
How have you capped off the heater hose outputs from the water pump? I had a similar issue on my 99 trans am after I bypassed the heater core. I took a short piece of hose and looped the 2 together. the hose was short so it kinked. I didn't pay much attention to it. But after weeks of chasing a heating issue, I finally took that hose off and replaced it with a longer one that made a smooth flowing loop. Then my heating issue went away.
How have you capped off the heater hose outputs from the water pump? I had a similar issue on my 99 trans am after I bypassed the heater core. I took a short piece of hose and looped the 2 together. the hose was short so it kinked. I didn't pay much attention to it. But after weeks of chasing a heating issue, I finally took that hose off and replaced it with a longer one that made a smooth flowing loop. Then my heating issue went away.
I would be complaining with that. How often to you plan on Idling for 55+minutes straight? As soon as you start moving and air is flowing it will drop into the 180's im sure. My car currently has an issue I havnt worked out. When I first start driving the car while it is heating up and I stop at a drivethru my car will rise to 210 in less than a minute. As soon as I start moving it drops to 165 in like 20 seconds. After that the car never really see's about 175-180 driving/idling. Im sure im battling an air pocket or my stock single fan isnt cutting it.
Jay
Jay
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
A car, built or not, should not overheat idling. If its overheating idling, imagine what its going to do on these enormous hills we have around here.
You're right there isn't a problem. OP why are you so convinced that something is wrong? If you idled the car in a shop with how hot it is outside and it took almost an hour to get to where the fans would turn on from the factory, I fail to see the problem. Have you even had it on the road yet? You are seriously underestimating how much extra heat a turbo and 4" downpipe makes. You have probably quadroupled the amount of exhaust surface area in the engine bay from a factory ls engine, it isn't going to run as cool with all things being equal. Like I said in my previous post, if the temp at idle bothers you upgrade the cfm on the fans and turn them on sooner. Other than getting the turbo out of the engine bay, you don't really have any other options. Goodluck.
ive increased my cfm number by 40% and still noticed no difference in temperature.
I don't think its right to have a car overheating. Whether its built or not.
the lower rad hose which is the " low pressure" had as much if not more pressure than the upper hose.
going to try to loop the hoses tonight and see what happens
I would be complaining with that. How often to you plan on Idling for 55+minutes straight? As soon as you start moving and air is flowing it will drop into the 180's im sure. My car currently has an issue I havnt worked out. When I first start driving the car while it is heating up and I stop at a drivethru my car will rise to 210 in less than a minute. As soon as I start moving it drops to 165 in like 20 seconds. After that the car never really see's about 175-180 driving/idling. Im sure im battling an air pocket or my stock single fan isnt cutting it.
Jay
Jay
I have a similar issue to you. Im very picky with our builds so I want to get this car cooler.
Does anybody know what gpm the stock f body water pump is?
-Cody
Teching In
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Shawnee, OK
You keep saying that the car is overheating, but I don't see any time that it has even been close. 55 minutes idling and it hit 215, that's not overheating. Just about every vehicle sold by gm in the last 20 years run 210 all day long. Take the car out and drive it and have some fun!! If it hits 255 shut it off, because you're about to overheat.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
You keep saying that the car is overheating, but I don't see any time that it has even been close. 55 minutes idling and it hit 215, that's not overheating. Just about every vehicle sold by gm in the last 20 years run 210 all day long. Take the car out and drive it and have some fun!! If it hits 255 shut it off, because you're about to overheat.
Looped the hoses. That slowed down the heating up. Since pretty much all ls vhicles use an expansion tank, would that effect anything? I dont have one.
-Cody
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
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not sure where to go with this next. At this point we've ruled out the following:
Thermostat
air pockets
fans
shroud
chin spoiler
heater line loop
front steam vents moved.
none of this has helped, so heres options I can see trying possibly.. top being easiest.
Double wrap hotside and downpipe
electric water pump
rear steam ports
larger rad
Radiator is the largest I can get between the frame rails without some major mods hence why its at the bottom of the list.
From what I read, our pumps flow around 20 gpm at idle ( correct me if im wrong) And if I got an ewp it would always flow 55 gpm or 35 gpm ( depending on which I buy)
one thing I did notice, was if you measured the fins on the rad, they were in the 90 degree range where the fans were pulling air through, and where the shroud was, temps were 170. Now, if my shroud is too thin ( mines 1/2" thick). Would that cause not enough air flow to get through the rad and act like airflow is blocked or lessened?
At tis point, im going to toss it back together and try to get some more tuning in and see what happens.
-Cody
Thermostat
air pockets
fans
shroud
chin spoiler
heater line loop
front steam vents moved.
none of this has helped, so heres options I can see trying possibly.. top being easiest.
Double wrap hotside and downpipe
electric water pump
rear steam ports
larger rad
Radiator is the largest I can get between the frame rails without some major mods hence why its at the bottom of the list.
From what I read, our pumps flow around 20 gpm at idle ( correct me if im wrong) And if I got an ewp it would always flow 55 gpm or 35 gpm ( depending on which I buy)
one thing I did notice, was if you measured the fins on the rad, they were in the 90 degree range where the fans were pulling air through, and where the shroud was, temps were 170. Now, if my shroud is too thin ( mines 1/2" thick). Would that cause not enough air flow to get through the rad and act like airflow is blocked or lessened?
At tis point, im going to toss it back together and try to get some more tuning in and see what happens.
-Cody
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Heres my next question. So why does everybody on here think these small griffin rads are good enough for our cars? Your downsizing the core size tremendously. With comparing the 2 rads, ( oem vs 241x griffin)
Both are crossflow
Griffin core is 22.5x 15.5x3
Stock core is 27.5x17.x
So is it just my thinking or is the " griffin stand up radiator " threads i see just what people say " fits" not what " works"
Seems like alot of people have similar issues to me and most claim its too small of a radiator.
Just some thought that i wanted to throw out there.
-Cody
Both are crossflow
Griffin core is 22.5x 15.5x3
Stock core is 27.5x17.x
So is it just my thinking or is the " griffin stand up radiator " threads i see just what people say " fits" not what " works"
Seems like alot of people have similar issues to me and most claim its too small of a radiator.
Just some thought that i wanted to throw out there.
-Cody
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
played with the timing and the fuel a little just to see what would happen and the temp didnt go over 186! We found our issue imo.
We added fuel and timing just to see what would happen. Im not sure which solved our issue, im going to assume richening it up.
So onto my last question...
Does anybody know a tuner or remote tuner that can tune my car? I have one tuner that wants my car for a week and wants to leave it outside all week, anither that is hardly ever available and gives empty promises.
Im from Pennsylvania. . If anybody can do it remotley let me know.
We added fuel and timing just to see what would happen. Im not sure which solved our issue, im going to assume richening it up.
So onto my last question...
Does anybody know a tuner or remote tuner that can tune my car? I have one tuner that wants my car for a week and wants to leave it outside all week, anither that is hardly ever available and gives empty promises.
Im from Pennsylvania. . If anybody can do it remotley let me know.