coils you are using on you 1000-1200ho combos
12-15-2015, 08:41 AM
#41
FWIW it’s very common for the AFR to lean out when going to a hotter coil/spark. Going from the square deals at 4ms to the D585’s at 4ms my AFR leaned out a full half point or so. I had to add fuel, which I also feel picked up on power. (though I only have track times so it’s hard to prove)
12-15-2015, 08:43 AM
#42
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I did some searching on the HPT site. Not saying the results were definitive, but guys made dwell changes on the dyno with no improvement in HP.
These were not boosted applications.
I took a look at my tune that has LS1 coil data for the dwell and I'm running the D585 coils.
Not a huge difference in the numbers in the 10-14v range. Big diff in the lower volts range.
When you do the math between the number in the table and the multiplier table, the LS1 coils actually use a longer dwell time than the D585.
I'll have to see if the new beta HP Tuners scanner lets me log this data.
Ron
These were not boosted applications.
I took a look at my tune that has LS1 coil data for the dwell and I'm running the D585 coils.
Not a huge difference in the numbers in the 10-14v range. Big diff in the lower volts range.
When you do the math between the number in the table and the multiplier table, the LS1 coils actually use a longer dwell time than the D585.
I'll have to see if the new beta HP Tuners scanner lets me log this data.
Ron
I believe i have d581 coils. They were the recommended stuff back in 2010.
I can tell you i picked up a good deal on dwell changes. 28-30 psi boost. I have to go back thru the logs and slips but i recall going 165 mph on a 11.5 ish air fuel ratio on a warmer air day. Next week i increased dwell and went 164.x on same boost i believe but now reading high 10's air fuel. Rpm line logged was much smoother. Car was smoother running in high gear. Once leaning out back to high 11's i went 169 mph.
12-15-2015, 08:54 AM
#43
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FWIW it’s very common for the AFR to lean out when going to a hotter coil/spark. Going from the square deals at 4ms to the D585’s at 4ms my AFR leaned out a full half point or so. I had to add fuel, which I also feel picked up on power. (though I only have track times so it’s hard to prove)
I guess it depends on where the tune was and what the motor was doing at the time of the coil swap or ignition upgrade.
Too rich to the point the spark is not igniting it will pass oxygen to the wb and read lean. Seen it on the dyno all the time. False lean. Hotter spark that ignites it will show true afr which could be rich. Usually too rich to ignite accelerates somewhat unsmooth, or the power/rpm curve on log/dyno may be unsmooth
12-15-2015, 09:05 AM
#44
9 Second Club
Whilst I'd have previously said that myself..apparently not totally true when it comes to widebands
Apparently raw fuel can actually still offer a "rich" reading too....just to add to confusion
http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
Apparently raw fuel can actually still offer a "rich" reading too....just to add to confusion
http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
12-15-2015, 09:22 AM
#46
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Whilst I'd have previously said that myself..apparently not totally true when it comes to widebands
Apparently raw fuel can actually still offer a "rich" reading too....just to add to confusion
http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
Apparently raw fuel can actually still offer a "rich" reading too....just to add to confusion
http://www.megamanual.com/PWC/LSU4.htm
12-15-2015, 09:26 AM
#47
Originally Posted by RonSSNova View Post
I did some searching on the HPT site. Not saying the results were definitive, but guys made dwell changes on the dyno with no improvement in HP.
These were not boosted applications.
I took a look at my tune that has LS1 coil data for the dwell and I'm running the D585 coils.
Not a huge difference in the numbers in the 10-14v range. Big diff in the lower volts range.
When you do the math between the number in the table and the multiplier table, the LS1 coils actually use a longer dwell time than the D585.
I'll have to see if the new beta HP Tuners scanner lets me log this data.
Ron
I did some searching on the HPT site. Not saying the results were definitive, but guys made dwell changes on the dyno with no improvement in HP.
These were not boosted applications.
I took a look at my tune that has LS1 coil data for the dwell and I'm running the D585 coils.
Not a huge difference in the numbers in the 10-14v range. Big diff in the lower volts range.
When you do the math between the number in the table and the multiplier table, the LS1 coils actually use a longer dwell time than the D585.
I'll have to see if the new beta HP Tuners scanner lets me log this data.
Ron
I think alot has to do with the A/F ratio. Alot harder to light off alcohol fuels and mixtures with water in them. Were you on race gas?
12-15-2015, 11:06 AM
#49
I'd say having a lower fuel to air ratio in the cylinder compared to alky fuels was part of the reason you got away with the baby coils, but I think Hellbents10 blew that theory out of the water with his eleventy billion HP methanol example.
So it’s been proven you can make tons of power with the square 40milli amp coils. But with 120 milli amps (or more) wouldn’t there have to be more power potential? Regardless of the ECU/fuel used/CC design/boost run…etc.
I ran close to 12 to 1
Last edited by LASTLS1; 12-15-2015 at 03:14 PM.
12-15-2015, 11:26 AM
#50
9 Second Club
So in that respect ecu does matter.
It would be interesting to see both their ecu output and actual coil output scoped to see what they're getting wrong with them if anything.
It really is as simple as a hi/low voltage on/off trigger for charging/firing
12-15-2015, 11:27 AM
#51
9 Second Club
12-15-2015, 03:02 PM
#53
Yes I agree we should have more power potential with better/hotter coils. Although we had no luck going faster with any other coil with the BS3 at that time and put a 44amp Mag on it.
I think the controller has a lot to do with how well the coils perform. Look at Carl Stevens promod, 3.5x@230mph in the 1/8 with COP and a Motec controller. He is running the Mercury coils too. That is the fastest door car in the world to the 1/8th!!!
I think the controller has a lot to do with how well the coils perform. Look at Carl Stevens promod, 3.5x@230mph in the 1/8 with COP and a Motec controller. He is running the Mercury coils too. That is the fastest door car in the world to the 1/8th!!!
12-15-2015, 06:01 PM
#54
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Yes I agree we should have more power potential with better/hotter coils. Although we had no luck going faster with any other coil with the BS3 at that time and put a 44amp Mag on it.
I think the controller has a lot to do with how well the coils perform. Look at Carl Stevens promod, 3.5x@230mph in the 1/8 with COP and a Motec controller. He is running the Mercury coils too. That is the fastest door car in the world to the 1/8th!!!
I think the controller has a lot to do with how well the coils perform. Look at Carl Stevens promod, 3.5x@230mph in the 1/8 with COP and a Motec controller. He is running the Mercury coils too. That is the fastest door car in the world to the 1/8th!!!
11-14-2017, 06:27 AM
#56
The merc coils work fine on 12v. Over the years of LS development the Merc guys always have had their influence with extreme builds and quality parts. The Merc coils have been regarded for a long time and some extreme LS builds run them with success. By the time most are ponying up to buy 1A mercs ( last I checked over $500 for the set ) they are also stepping up every other component in search of eliminating weak links hence stepping to 16v as well.
Since those early years and crazy development programs of Kurts and the like it seems to have settled down. Pantera offers solid product that fit the bill and I cant recall the last 16v conversion done. Those builds are in the 2K hp range typically
Maybe others have more detailed info, that was my take away from it all.
11-14-2017, 01:03 PM
#57
Whats the part number for the Holley Smart Coils.....?
I understand these are the best for full time E85 fuel....?
Are these the correct coils:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AEM-30-2853...RaCYv9&vxp=mtr
.
I understand these are the best for full time E85 fuel....?
Are these the correct coils:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/AEM-30-2853...RaCYv9&vxp=mtr
.
11-14-2017, 09:08 PM
#58
I believe you need an alt and bat and thats it although I havent personally run a 16v system, I discovered this during research for my boost build which I am still in the midst of putting together ( as the engine sits on the shelf collecting dust )
The merc coils work fine on 12v. Over the years of LS development the Merc guys always have had their influence with extreme builds and quality parts. The Merc coils have been regarded for a long time and some extreme LS builds run them with success. By the time most are ponying up to buy 1A mercs ( last I checked over $500 for the set ) they are also stepping up every other component in search of eliminating weak links hence stepping to 16v as well.
Since those early years and crazy development programs of Kurts and the like it seems to have settled down. Pantera offers solid product that fit the bill and I cant recall the last 16v conversion done. Those builds are in the 2K hp range typically
Maybe others have more detailed info, that was my take away from it all.
The merc coils work fine on 12v. Over the years of LS development the Merc guys always have had their influence with extreme builds and quality parts. The Merc coils have been regarded for a long time and some extreme LS builds run them with success. By the time most are ponying up to buy 1A mercs ( last I checked over $500 for the set ) they are also stepping up every other component in search of eliminating weak links hence stepping to 16v as well.
Since those early years and crazy development programs of Kurts and the like it seems to have settled down. Pantera offers solid product that fit the bill and I cant recall the last 16v conversion done. Those builds are in the 2K hp range typically
Maybe others have more detailed info, that was my take away from it all.
ok yes alt and batt at 16 v and will that fry everything else the car has on battery power?? you cant just switch those 2 items out and get 16 V on a street car and go correct?
ok i m mainly asking about the 1a merc coils because i may have a good deal on a set but i want to know if they will run the same on my normal 12-13 volt set up or if it was absolutely necessary to have them on 16 V it looks like you answered that just confirming.
the pantera coils run on 12V as well or just 16? part #?
thanks
11-15-2017, 11:15 AM
#59
ok yes alt and batt at 16 v and 1. will that fry everything else the car has on battery power?? you cant just switch those 2 items out and get 16 V on a street car and go correct?
ok i m mainly asking about the 1a merc coils because i may have a good deal on a set but i want to know if they will run the same on my normal 12-13 volt set up or if it was absolutely necessary to have them on 16 V it looks like you answered that just confirming.
2. the pantera coils run on 12V as well or just 16? part #?
thanks
ok i m mainly asking about the 1a merc coils because i may have a good deal on a set but i want to know if they will run the same on my normal 12-13 volt set up or if it was absolutely necessary to have them on 16 V it looks like you answered that just confirming.
2. the pantera coils run on 12V as well or just 16? part #?
thanks
1. No clue, I havent run one to prove it reliable, others have who I read up on. That said I really cant see 4v making any difference in reliability, most systems run 14.1 anyways so the voltage difference should be moot in terms of component risk.
2. Pantera is a site sponsor PM Lance and ask for a solution for your needs. He will sort you out with a quality product I have no doubt of that
11-16-2017, 10:47 AM
#60
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IGN-!A Coil Tech Hi All, thanks for the kind words about my IGN-1A coil.
Rick Mackie specified this coil for use on his HIGH SPEED 12K RPM TWO stroke (EFI) racing engine. (First Customer)
His requirement was 100+mj with 2ms Dwell, easy.
ALSO TRUE the EGO/UEGO will "read" MORE Oxygen, leftover from the LACK of combustion (Higher Lambda) when miss-fire occurs.
The IGN-1A coil IS tested UP TO 16 Volts with 14 Volts as NOMINAL.
The Voltage Increase will LOWER the Charge Time according to Ohm's Law.
There is a 18 Volt TVS inside the coil with current flow starting at 17 Volts.
The IGN-1A coil CAN BE DAMAGED by supply "over voltage" current.
Dwell truncation is 8.8MS @ 14 volts (Dead Short) with coil damage if done.
My CONCERN (here) is ALL the "tech" with respect to 3K Heads, Intakes, Turbos, NOS, etc. AND little concern for QUALITY Ignition.
The cost of the LS-IGN-1A coil kit is $800.00, the coil fitted on 3000 HP engines.
I have seen a GREATER COST for Billet Valve Covers !
Lance, BTW I provide Data Sheets with your order if asked.
Rick Mackie specified this coil for use on his HIGH SPEED 12K RPM TWO stroke (EFI) racing engine. (First Customer)
His requirement was 100+mj with 2ms Dwell, easy.
ALSO TRUE the EGO/UEGO will "read" MORE Oxygen, leftover from the LACK of combustion (Higher Lambda) when miss-fire occurs.
The IGN-1A coil IS tested UP TO 16 Volts with 14 Volts as NOMINAL.
The Voltage Increase will LOWER the Charge Time according to Ohm's Law.
There is a 18 Volt TVS inside the coil with current flow starting at 17 Volts.
The IGN-1A coil CAN BE DAMAGED by supply "over voltage" current.
Dwell truncation is 8.8MS @ 14 volts (Dead Short) with coil damage if done.
My CONCERN (here) is ALL the "tech" with respect to 3K Heads, Intakes, Turbos, NOS, etc. AND little concern for QUALITY Ignition.
The cost of the LS-IGN-1A coil kit is $800.00, the coil fitted on 3000 HP engines.
I have seen a GREATER COST for Billet Valve Covers !
Lance, BTW I provide Data Sheets with your order if asked.