No more needles!
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FormerVendor
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Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 576
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From: Mcleansville, NC
Right now Straub and I are working on this and should be able to supply these already installed soon.
I will let you know when this happens.
The upgraded bolt package is available now I believe.
I'd be glad to get you a kit if needed!
I will let you know when this happens.
I'd be glad to get you a kit if needed!
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6600 rpm clutch dump of death Administrator
Joined: Dec 2001
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From: Texas
So I saw this reply and I wanted to respond to it.
Ok, so unless we are talking about a thrust bearing, the load either a bushing or a roller bearing is going to be seeing is what is referred to as a radial load. That load isn't on just a few needles.
Also, unless your needle is the same size as your shaft, they will rotate at different rates.
Here is a video that shows a roller bearing in action. You can see what I mean.
In terms of a bushing vs a roller. A roller from a mechanical perspective is always going to be more efficient. A bushing will increase oil temp based the increase in frictional load. How much may be negligible, but its there.
In terms of a bushing being more efficient or less prone to wear. I don' think that is an accurate statement. As I pointed out in a previous post many mfgs use bushings as they are usually a much lower cost to mfg, and also require less shaft hardness/prep.
The limitations of the LS series rockers are well understood. There are many ways to skin a cat. This is a certainly a solution to the problem, and I suspect that if the material has the proper load characteristics and with proper lubrication it would be problem free for the life of the engine.
Originally Posted by Martin Smallwood
The needle bearing that encapsulates a rocker arm trunion does not rotate 360* around the trunion during engine operation, and neither does the bushing in my kit. It's not like a needle bearing in a roller lifter that has a wheel. The needle bearing only rotates as far as the rocker is actuated. In this instance for the needle bearing to rotate 360*, the entire rocker would have to also rotate 360* like the wheel of a roller lifter.
So in this same instance no matter needle or bushing, the same needles or the same area of the bushing sees the same load over and over again. In a needle bearing application, only a few out of all those needles see load which means that load is concentrated in a much smaller area than with a bushing which spreads it out over a larger area.
This is where the bushing is superior in terms of handling load and wear. Since the area that the load is being placed upon is greater, the actual load that the part sees is significantly less leading to less wear and tear on moving parts.
So in this same instance no matter needle or bushing, the same needles or the same area of the bushing sees the same load over and over again. In a needle bearing application, only a few out of all those needles see load which means that load is concentrated in a much smaller area than with a bushing which spreads it out over a larger area.
This is where the bushing is superior in terms of handling load and wear. Since the area that the load is being placed upon is greater, the actual load that the part sees is significantly less leading to less wear and tear on moving parts.
Also, unless your needle is the same size as your shaft, they will rotate at different rates.
Here is a video that shows a roller bearing in action. You can see what I mean.
In terms of a bushing vs a roller. A roller from a mechanical perspective is always going to be more efficient. A bushing will increase oil temp based the increase in frictional load. How much may be negligible, but its there.
In terms of a bushing being more efficient or less prone to wear. I don' think that is an accurate statement. As I pointed out in a previous post many mfgs use bushings as they are usually a much lower cost to mfg, and also require less shaft hardness/prep.
The limitations of the LS series rockers are well understood. There are many ways to skin a cat. This is a certainly a solution to the problem, and I suspect that if the material has the proper load characteristics and with proper lubrication it would be problem free for the life of the engine.
Thread Starter
FormerVendor
iTrader: (2)
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 576
Likes: 14
From: Mcleansville, NC
So I saw this reply and I wanted to respond to it.
Ok, so unless we are talking about a thrust bearing, the load either a bushing or a roller bearing is going to be seeing is what is referred to as a radial load. That load isn't on just a few needles.
Also, unless your needle is the same size as your shaft, they will rotate at different rates.
Here is a video that shows a roller bearing in action. You can see what I mean.
Bearing fundamentals - YouTube
In terms of a bushing vs a roller. A roller from a mechanical perspective is always going to be more efficient. A bushing will increase oil temp based the increase in frictional load. How much may be negligible, but its there.
In terms of a bushing being more efficient or less prone to wear. I don' think that is an accurate statement. As I pointed out in a previous post many mfgs use bushings as they are usually a much lower cost to mfg, and also require less shaft hardness/prep.
The limitations of the LS series rockers are well understood. There are many ways to skin a cat. This is a certainly a solution to the problem, and I suspect that if the material has the proper load characteristics and with proper lubrication it would be problem free for the life of the engine.
Ok, so unless we are talking about a thrust bearing, the load either a bushing or a roller bearing is going to be seeing is what is referred to as a radial load. That load isn't on just a few needles.
Also, unless your needle is the same size as your shaft, they will rotate at different rates.
Here is a video that shows a roller bearing in action. You can see what I mean.
Bearing fundamentals - YouTube
In terms of a bushing vs a roller. A roller from a mechanical perspective is always going to be more efficient. A bushing will increase oil temp based the increase in frictional load. How much may be negligible, but its there.
In terms of a bushing being more efficient or less prone to wear. I don' think that is an accurate statement. As I pointed out in a previous post many mfgs use bushings as they are usually a much lower cost to mfg, and also require less shaft hardness/prep.
The limitations of the LS series rockers are well understood. There are many ways to skin a cat. This is a certainly a solution to the problem, and I suspect that if the material has the proper load characteristics and with proper lubrication it would be problem free for the life of the engine.
Looking at your diagram/picture, it is certain that more than a "few" needles as I mentioned are seeing some sort of load. Looking at the bottom few needles in your diagram it looks as if that they're seeing more load than the others surrounding them. This will change as the wheel/bearing rotates. The benefit to a bushing is that concentrated load is spread out over a larger surface area, is it not? Won't individual needles have higher contact areas of pressure and in a more concentrated area? That is at least what I have been led to believe. I was always told by those in the lifter industry that the bushing can handle more load because it is able to spread a more concentrated load out over a larger amount of area. Is this not true in your opinion?
In terms of additional friction that the bushing sees that is most certainly true. I would believe this is why lifter manufacturers have mentioned that bushings can be more picky about which oil is used and how relatively often it is changed to ensure particles in the oil don't make their way to the bushing.
In terms of being more prone to wear when used in the sense of a LS rocker arm, if the bushing can handle more load because it allows the load to see a larger surface area wouldn't it also wear at a decreased rate because of this?
What do you think is causing the wear being shown on the trunions posted?
