Moderators, I guess that you can lock this if you want, but I wanted a chance to respond to Rob's comments first...especially since much of his response was not the truth...so here goes.

Apparently you are the one with the faulty memory. Here is what the add stated about the longblock 'complete Long Block (no intake, ignition, or fueling included).'

And you are 100% correct, I didn't check the motor until a year after I received it. Unfortunately at the time when the transaction occured, and up until a few months ago I believed that you were honest about the motor and how it was run. I believed that you were a stand-up business owner who would look after his customers.

Yep, this is about the only true statement that you have made. But, what I actually said was 'the missing rockers and pushrods are not my biggest concern.' I had my Yella Terra rockers and moly pushrods from my old heads/cam setup that I could use. I was worried about the lash cap that made its way into my $10k motor, which is why I called you in the first place.

Funny how the words get twisted around. I did speak with Wade at ARE about the motor. However, that was not until I was already in the process of buying it. All that ARE verified was that the motor they built for you had the parts that you listed in the original add. How would they be in a position to verify that it was in the condition that you stated?

LOL, this is almost comical. I would love to see the email where I said that I had ARE do a motor for me. I said that I had a set of ARE heads that were under-performing and didn't have the size valves that they said were in there. Maybe you should see a doctor...seems like you miss an awful lot. Or maybe when you spread misinformation as you have in this post you start to forget what was true and what wasn't after a while? Must be tough keeping all of that straight...

I changed my mind about ARE when I opened up a motor that was supposed to be barely run and the person from whom I purchased it wouldn't return my calls. I called Nick based on something that he had posted in a thread on this site and he offered to work with me to get the problem fixed. I am changing my opinion of ARE because they are going out of their way to help me instead of hiding and not returning any of my calls.

Well, strangely enough, when rockers and pushrods are in a motor...as they would be in a complete longblock, it is pretty hard for lash caps to get scattered around in the heads.

As for the comment about me dropping the lash cap in the motor while I was installing the rockers...Come on Rob, reaching a little? The lash caps fell into the motor because when you or someone at your shop removed the rockers and the pushrods they forgot to remove the lash caps with them and they scattered around the motor.

I never expected you to do anything of the kind. Returning my calls would have been a nice touch though. As a customer, and whether you realize it or not I was a customer of yours, all that I wanted was to be treated fairly. The motor that you advertised as 'basically BRAND NEW' was nowhere near that. And for the record, the motor was never in my car...It was bolted to the trans, had my turbo setup bolted to it and was ready to go in when I discovered the problems.

Folks, anyone that has built a car or spent any kind of time in the automotive industry knows that it is rife with crooks and people that are out to make a quick buck. There are very few people that will stand behind things that they sell or work that they do. I have experienced a lot of shady things during the time that I have been building my car, so nothing really suprises me anymore. What it does do is make me that much more thankful when I find a company/individuals that do stand behind their product or service.

I thought that Rob would be one of the later and he turned out not to be. I will chalk it up as a lesson learned (although an expensive and time consuming one), but I would feel totally irresponsible if I didn't pass on my experiences (both good and bad) so that people can make educated and informed decisions about companies with whom they may eventually deal.

Anyway, just wanted a chance to set the record straight and weave in the truth.

Thanks,

 

Sorry my memory of all of the specifics is not as clear as it should be. After all, I haven't spoken to you about it in how long??? 8-10 months?? And how long ago since I sold it to you?? A year and a half ago!!??? Fortunately, you are not my only customer. And I admitted to being wrong about the pushrods and rockers, and offered to send them to you Monday. What else am I supposed to do?

All I can tell you about the engine is, I have never in my life used lash caps on ANY set of heads. Lash caps shouldn't be necessary if the machine work is done correctly, and are considered "band-aids" to a poor valvejob. ARE did the machine work, supplied every single part of that engine, assembled and installed it. I never saw it internally and took their word that everything was as it was supposed to be. Ask them why they were there....I already told you I didn't know it had them. Like you, with the money I paid for the motor, I wouldn't have expected to see lashcaps on it.

And I also spoke to you on the phone, but you apparently like to contradict yourself. You called me to ask what to do about the missing lashcap, like I was supposed to be able to find it in your engine for you over the phone. I answered you as best I could. That was the last time I spoke to you. And this is the first time I've ever heard about any other problem with that engine. It was YOUR responsibility to check the engine out when you received it...not a year later. ESPECIALLY since you yourself had already had a "bad experience with ARE". Believe me, I paid ARE BIG money for that engine and I sold it to you in complete honesty. I exagerated nothing. I'm sorry it didn't turn out to "look" like it was practically brand new...but I can assure you it was.

Bottom line here is, you bought a USED motor, built by ARE (not us) at $6000 under what it would have normally cost. I told you at that time that I had not ever taken the engine apart, or had the heads off of it since they hadf installed it. Which was why I even PERSONALLY suggested that you check everything out as soon as you got it. Did I not?? So I'm sorry, but the blame is on you IMO. Had you done as we discussed, and checked out the engine when you received it, we could have worked everything out right then. But who knows what's gone on with it for the last year and a half?

Now please, stop acting like I robbed you. I'm getting really tired of this crap.

 

Thanks for the info on the turbo buick stuff. It appears I was very wrong about the stock block capabilities in a near stock weight car. My friend is getting his insurance money this week I believe and I'll try to get in touch with you about the FAST. Any way to talk to you directly? I will be helping him tune it ...with my lm-1 wideband if necessary, and would like to make sure we get the right optioned FAST.

 

Scott, that really sucks. I remember when this engine came up for sale and you bought it but this is the first I heard of the issues. He clearly stated that the engine was barely used and his reason for selling was related to some class rule that would not let him compete with it. It was supposedly warmed up a few times on the street or that was the lasting impression given.

Remember that thread about alchohol fueling where ROB got into it with Y2KHAWK and he took a position and dug in even tho it was obviously wrong to anyone who has actually done this stuff. That was when I formed my lasting opinion.

Hope you get this squared up. I hate seeing enthusiasts getting treated like this.

 

I hope to have my alky kit installed next week. Hopefully i will be able to do 600rwhp with the incon/alky on93 octane

 

ten thousand dollar reasons like this are why i don't mind (at all) taking heat from leg humpers.

i tried to warn sorry it didn't work out, but thank goodness you were able to fall back on ARE.

p.s. scott welcome to the crazy people club!

 

This might be a silly question, but I'll ask anyways. Rob, if the engine was sold without rocker arms and pushrods, but was a running engine prior to the sale, then somebody at your shop had to remove the valvecovers, remove the rockers, and remove the pushrods, correct?

Then how come you claim you didn't know it had lash caps? Wouldn't you or your tech that disassembled the valvetrain have seen them?

How come these drama filled stories always have too many holes in them? Its really hard to know which side to believe.

 

There is a common theme... Hell I do not even have FI. But, if I want entertainment, I come here and I do a quick search for 'Raymer'.

Too me that speaks volumes. I used to be a non-believer too.

 

BTW, shouldn't this **** be in the feedback forum?

 

cablebandit, I did 621 with alky/incon/91 octane, but unfortunately it did not live long at that level . . . but with 93 you should be ok IMO.

- Dug

 

Yes, I had one of the guys at the shop remove the rockers. Have you ever seen lashcaps Tony? Most people wouldn't notice them unless they were actually looking for them. Apparently my guy didn't notice them either.

Now, what's the big deal that it had lashcaps? And if it is a big deal, then why ask me and not ARE?????????????

And Tony, where are these "holes in the drama filled stories" that I haven't answered??

 

[QUOTE=Rob Raymer]Yes, I had one of the guys at the shop remove the rockers. Have you ever seen lashcaps Tony? Most people wouldn't notice them unless they were actually looking for them. Apparently my guy didn't notice them either.QUOTE]

I hope He dosen't NOT notice a allen wrench or somthing someday when he's putting a motor together.

 

Rob no offense but you advertised the motor as basically new and in perfect running order.

You are responsible for selling it as such. It is your responsibility to make sure the end customer gets what you promised in your offer.

ARE sold you a motor and you ran it.

also....

When ARE sold you the motor if it had lashcaps that is perfectly fine. Lash caps are used all the time in thousands of motors without issues.

Also it is nearly IMPOSSIBLE to miss lash caps.

They are blatantly obvious when you take the rocker off. They are RIGHT there...

If I were you I would be pissed with YOUR TECH for losing the lash cap and fu@king up the motor. NOT ARE!!

Chris

 

Has anyone considered that Rob is telling the truth and Scott is at fault? Why assume Rob is the automatic problem. I'm not taking sides, just trying to be fair.

 

It is the last time we spoke about it because you never returned any of my calls on the 15+ occassions when I called the shop.

Yep, I bought it from you and not ARE. That is why I tried to settle this with you first, because I thought that you were a stand-up individual and business owner. As I stated prior, I was wrong.

ARE might have assembled the motor, but you or someone at your shop obviously turned a wrench on it.

Maybe when you stop doing it people will stop complaining about it...just a thought.

It is certainly anyone's perogative to believe what they want to believe. I have stated the events as they actually happened, take it as you will. To me it is obvious, based on the misinformation that Rob originally posted and then dismissed, who is telling the truth.

Thanks to everyone for their support. Moral of the story is live and learn I guess.

 

LOL, Scott, laugh a little, at least he didn't sell you the stock 346 out of the Formula... That would have been something to seriously freak out about.

 

I heard some more interesting news today, hopefully Rob can confirm this.

Rob (Quarter Mile Performance) was signed on as the primary event sponsor at todays racing event (North Vs South event, Indiana). There was alot of drama that went on back and forth to get Rob to send a check to Tom Kempf to cover the Primary Sponsor spot. The event was today, and is now completed, but Rob never sent a check in. So of course, payouts will be much less for the winners.

Any truth to this series of events Rob???????

 

So what. Why do you think he pulled his money out of this web site? Everyone knows why because Raymer always had to come in and defend himself. So he pulled the plug on his funding to the site. I guess he decided to pull the funding to the NvS, ls1tech organized event. I'm glad he didn't show up there. Means he better have been working on my car getting her ready. Right Rob??

 

This will obviously never end.

1. I sold the motor as USED...NOT NEW. So calling it "practically new" still doesn't make it NEW. Does it?
2. It was USED just as I stated, and it was in perfect running order. It was still in the car and running up until it was sold. The engine could have been checked out thoroughly at our shop by anyone who was interested in it, prior to purchasing it. It's not like I sold it to him at gunpoint.
3. It had less than 40 miles on it, as I stated.
4. I did not personally take the rockers off the engine. One of the guys who worked for me almost 2yrs ago did. If I see him out, I'll scold him.
5. I beg to differ Chris. Lashcaps ARE NOT obvious unless you are specifically looking for them. My employee was only asked to remove the rockers and pushrods, not inspect the engine.
6. Unless the shipping company turned the crate upside down, the lashcaps should have never came off the valves. Lashcaps have to be PULLED off....they don't just FALL off.
7. Scott removed the oil pan when he got the engine (as he stated) and "discarded it". Doesn't anyone think that just MAYBE the lashcap fell off when he MAY HAVE turned the engine upside down to remove the pan?? Of course not, because then it wouldn't be my fault.
8. If the engine was damaged, how would I have known about it? It ran perfect. I didn't install it. I didn't even tune it!!! That was all done BY ARE, AT ARE. So if something was wrong with it, I would have contacted them about it anyway had Scott ever told me there were other problems. But he didn't. Nor did he relay that there were any problems with it during any one of his so-called 15 attempts at contacting me.
9. Scott told me from day one that he was going to go back through everything when he got it anyway, "because he didn't trust ARE, and the parts alone were worth the $10k". (though I'm not saying he should have expected it would need boring, etc.)
10. It's funny how when I didn't even build the engine OR TUNE IT, I'm still to blame for "shoddy work and poor tuning".
11. It's also funny how long this thread is being allowed to go on. Especially when it has nothing to do with the FI section. Could it be because I'm once again at the receiving end of the bashing?? Same ****, different day.
12. I thought that a post like this was clearly listed as being against forum guidelines. (oh yea, that's right...it's only when I make a post that the rules are followed to a T by the Admins.)
13. In this case, even one of the owners of the site felt the need to jump in and criticize me. Rather than closing, locking, or moving the thread as should have been done immediately as per the Forum rules. (though I bet it will get locked or moved now that I'm pointing all of this out) Bet takers??
14. My life has been much less stressful since dropping my sponsorship of this site. At least up until now.
15. Blah, blah, blah-bla-blah.

 

Damn it Raymer, get off the internet and finish ma car son!!