what is the Recipe for a reliable 1k hp ls
08-31-2016, 08:52 PM
#1
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (29)
what is the Recipe for a reliable 1k hp ls Dreaming of building a forced induction car. I'm thinking Id like to see 1k on low boost and around 1500 or better on kill mode. Would like to keep it reliable as possible. Been searching but haven't found anything that mentions reliable hp. This would be going in a 4th gen trans am and auto transmission.
Super charger or turbos don't matter which ever would be more reliable
Super charger or turbos don't matter which ever would be more reliable
08-31-2016, 09:03 PM
#2
no such thing as reliable at 1500 hp . People that are building 1500hp turbo engines aren't too concerned about reliability at that level. But obviously you need top of the line engine internals and an LSX block if reliability is what your after. E85 OR RACE FUEL FOR SURE.
08-31-2016, 09:49 PM
#7
TECH Addict
ERL 6-bolt superdeck with all the trimmings like full bronze lifter guides and billet mains with a girdle, **** like that.
For 1,000rwhp on relatively low boost you are going to need relatively large displacement. Probably a 4.125" bore, but since you are talking about reliable horsepower I wouldn't go larger than a 3.75" stroke. Personally. Little things like rod ratios really start to matter when you want durability and high horsepower.
A 4.125" bore leaves plenty of cylinder wall in those ERL ductile sleeves for all the horsepower you can dream of. Plus, not exceeding 4.125" in bore leaves you plenty of head gasket between the chambers to maintain proper seal. Or you can O-ring it, that is an option as well.
A 4.125" bore with a 3.75" magnum crank gives you 400ci, and a 1.67 rod ratio with 6.25" rods.
4.125" bore with a 3.625" crank gives you 388ci, and a 1.75 rod ratio with 6.35" rods.
Either of those combinations with a good set of MMS235's, TFS245's, or MAST 295's would probably be about as good of a foundation for your goals as possible.
I would think a single turbo or a centri blower to minimize potential leaks. A top mount blower probably couldn't be pulleyed correctly to not experience belt slip before your kill mode goals. For the turbo or procharger, I would have a Lingenfelter A2W intercooler intake, as well as an air to air intercooler, because heat is the enemy and you want reliability.
Probably solid roller cam, because you want reliability and hydraulic lifters are a potential point of failure.
Dry sump and vacuum pump because you said kill mode.
There are countless ways to get there, endless combinations, but what it takes it attention to detail and money.
Tolerances and clearances, measuring for every pushrod, triple checking everything, oil squirters would probably be a good idea, ceramic coating pistons and combustion chambers. You need it to be efficiently producing power, because if you are stressing it and pushing it to get the power it won't be reliable. So rod ratios and side loading and piston speed and coefficients of discharge actually matter if you want it to be reliable at that level.
Make sure the suspension and tires and brakes are all rated for that power and those speeds, safety cage and fire extinguishers for sure, since you are talking about consuming huge amounts of high octane fuel and hopefully going insanely fast.
But, if you want it to be reliable at those levels, even to stand a chance at those levels, you are going to need high quality parts assembled by people who have the equipment and experience to do it right, and still pay attention to the whole design as a system. Especially if you do not plan on tearing it apart every couple passes.
Reducing rotating/moving mass will be extremely important. Which generally means paying a premium price for lightweight yet strong parts.
Granted, there are plenty of high horsepower builds with crappy rod ratios and >4.00" strokes, probably with plenty of real miles and passes on them to be considered reliable. I haven't ever built a 1,000rwhp engine, so technically I don't know ****. But I do know how to identify potential points of failure in a system and what to do in order to mitigate those risks.
Build a rock solid shortblock, put the best heads on it you can afford, and pay attention to things like oil control and crankcase ventilation and valvetrain stability, and you should be fine. If you don't already have a pretty solid idea of what it takes to get it done, then you need to pay someone who knows to do this for you.
If you are looking for a list of parts numbers that ends in a dyno sheet with 1500rwhp on it, I seriously doubt this is the place to find such a thing.
For 1,000rwhp on relatively low boost you are going to need relatively large displacement. Probably a 4.125" bore, but since you are talking about reliable horsepower I wouldn't go larger than a 3.75" stroke. Personally. Little things like rod ratios really start to matter when you want durability and high horsepower.
A 4.125" bore leaves plenty of cylinder wall in those ERL ductile sleeves for all the horsepower you can dream of. Plus, not exceeding 4.125" in bore leaves you plenty of head gasket between the chambers to maintain proper seal. Or you can O-ring it, that is an option as well.
A 4.125" bore with a 3.75" magnum crank gives you 400ci, and a 1.67 rod ratio with 6.25" rods.
4.125" bore with a 3.625" crank gives you 388ci, and a 1.75 rod ratio with 6.35" rods.
Either of those combinations with a good set of MMS235's, TFS245's, or MAST 295's would probably be about as good of a foundation for your goals as possible.
I would think a single turbo or a centri blower to minimize potential leaks. A top mount blower probably couldn't be pulleyed correctly to not experience belt slip before your kill mode goals. For the turbo or procharger, I would have a Lingenfelter A2W intercooler intake, as well as an air to air intercooler, because heat is the enemy and you want reliability.
Probably solid roller cam, because you want reliability and hydraulic lifters are a potential point of failure.
Dry sump and vacuum pump because you said kill mode.
There are countless ways to get there, endless combinations, but what it takes it attention to detail and money.
Tolerances and clearances, measuring for every pushrod, triple checking everything, oil squirters would probably be a good idea, ceramic coating pistons and combustion chambers. You need it to be efficiently producing power, because if you are stressing it and pushing it to get the power it won't be reliable. So rod ratios and side loading and piston speed and coefficients of discharge actually matter if you want it to be reliable at that level.
Make sure the suspension and tires and brakes are all rated for that power and those speeds, safety cage and fire extinguishers for sure, since you are talking about consuming huge amounts of high octane fuel and hopefully going insanely fast.
But, if you want it to be reliable at those levels, even to stand a chance at those levels, you are going to need high quality parts assembled by people who have the equipment and experience to do it right, and still pay attention to the whole design as a system. Especially if you do not plan on tearing it apart every couple passes.
Reducing rotating/moving mass will be extremely important. Which generally means paying a premium price for lightweight yet strong parts.
Granted, there are plenty of high horsepower builds with crappy rod ratios and >4.00" strokes, probably with plenty of real miles and passes on them to be considered reliable. I haven't ever built a 1,000rwhp engine, so technically I don't know ****. But I do know how to identify potential points of failure in a system and what to do in order to mitigate those risks.
Build a rock solid shortblock, put the best heads on it you can afford, and pay attention to things like oil control and crankcase ventilation and valvetrain stability, and you should be fine. If you don't already have a pretty solid idea of what it takes to get it done, then you need to pay someone who knows to do this for you.
If you are looking for a list of parts numbers that ends in a dyno sheet with 1500rwhp on it, I seriously doubt this is the place to find such a thing.
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08-31-2016, 11:00 PM
#10
Originally Posted by Busted67
This will be the easiest and probably more reliable than most other choices.
09-01-2016, 06:25 AM
#11
Dart bbc 540-565ci, efi with any 80mm and up turbos will make 1500 with descent heads. If u budget your money I think you can get a complete motor,efi and fuel system,turbos that will reliability make 1500hp for 13k-14k
My next car will have a 555ci in it for sure.
My next car will have a 555ci in it for sure.
09-01-2016, 07:27 AM
#12
TECH Apprentice
Most people wanting 1500, or even 1000 RWHP, want it because thanks to the internet, it seems like everyone is running 1000 minimum.
I don't think 1500 horsepower being reliable is a realistic expectation, unless you dyno 1500, but then never actually push the car hard.
Good luck in the quest, and please let us know if you manage to catch the unicorn.
I don't think 1500 horsepower being reliable is a realistic expectation, unless you dyno 1500, but then never actually push the car hard.
Good luck in the quest, and please let us know if you manage to catch the unicorn.
09-01-2016, 04:12 PM
#15
TECH Addict
All the big block stuff is accurate and true, but also 100% irrelevant given that the OP clearly stated he is looking for a reliable 1000rwhp LS... as in LS-based... as in NOT a big block Chevy motor.
It is actually kind of annoying when everyone chimes in with completely irrelevant information when a relatively specific question was asked. Can probably find a nice reliable 1500hp jet engine, too, but it doesn't help the OP find a recipe for a reliable 1000rwhp LS-engine.
It is actually kind of annoying when everyone chimes in with completely irrelevant information when a relatively specific question was asked. Can probably find a nice reliable 1500hp jet engine, too, but it doesn't help the OP find a recipe for a reliable 1000rwhp LS-engine.
09-01-2016, 04:38 PM
#16
TECH Junkie
Thread Starter
iTrader: (29)
Thanks for all the comments. I honestly didn't think it would be that hard to put a reliable ls motor together in that hp range.
What kind of HP would it take to put a almost full weight trans am into 8s 1/4 ?
What kind of HP would it take to put a almost full weight trans am into 8s 1/4 ?
09-01-2016, 05:13 PM
#17
Originally Posted by DavidBoren
All the big block stuff is accurate and true, but also 100% irrelevant given that the OP clearly stated he is looking for a reliable 1000rwhp LS... as in LS-based... as in NOT a big block Chevy motor.
It is actually kind of annoying when everyone chimes in with completely irrelevant information when a relatively specific question was asked. Can probably find a nice reliable 1500hp jet engine, too, but it doesn't help the OP find a recipe for a reliable 1000rwhp LS-engine.
It is actually kind of annoying when everyone chimes in with completely irrelevant information when a relatively specific question was asked. Can probably find a nice reliable 1500hp jet engine, too, but it doesn't help the OP find a recipe for a reliable 1000rwhp LS-engine.
09-01-2016, 05:40 PM
#18
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A built LS or iron 6.0 can do 1000 reliably. Even then it's not cheap. To move to 1500 requires a lot of motor/fuel/air/money. You're looking at a superdeck and two big turbos if you don't want a big block. You said reliable which isn't cheap and involves all the best parts.
If you can hook it up, I would say around 800-900 can hit 8s. The biggest issue isn't power but traction and keeping it together. I'm not sure what you mean by full weight though, like no k-member, suspension, cage, shute etc. down the list? Some of the weight reduction comes from just getting it to go straight and hook.
