Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

I'm new to this site and new to the fbody world. I'm hoping to pick up a 98-02 z28 next spring. My goal is to turbocharge it. But I have a few questions regarding the fuel system and tuning capabilities of this platform. So for the fuel system, I live in MN. E85 is on every corner and if I plan to go turbo e85 imo is a must. These cars are factory returnless. I've only ever dealt with return style fuel systems. I realize return style is the way to go but what are the limits of the stock returnless setup? If you put dual pumps with e85 what kind of hp limits can you get on the stock fuel lines? Can you run 1000cc injectors on the returnless setup? That leads into my other question about the tuning. I'm aware you can put a custom 2bar os from hp tuners that is speed density on these cars. Do they have the ability to support a flex fuel sensor? Everything else I've looked into has been straight forward but these are the questions I'm stuck on. Any input would be cool. Thanks

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

Many people have made a lot of power on stock rails and lines on this site but many did it on pump gas which uses less fuel than e85 would. I am shooting for 750-850whp on e85 with a built motor and decided to skip the whole stock line setup. I am doing a Chrs1313 (member here) dual Walbro 450 in tank setup with -8 feed and -6 return PTFE braided hoses with billet fuel rails.

As far as tuning, make sure to get a 99-02 car as they can support 3 bar map sensor tuning whereas the 98 cars can only do 2 bar. 99+ cars can do flex fuel with some changes to the tune file.

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the late response. I've been reasearching this and trying to decide what I want to do. If I get an ls1 z28 and what to go FI I need a turbo k frame. The 4l60e isn't going to handle the power. And the ls1 isn't going to last long. So at this point I'm toying with the idea of buying a 6.0/4l80e package from a friend for a decent price and looking at buying a v6 camaro to swap it into. Since I would eventually want to upgrade to a 4l80e anyway and I have to get a new k frame anyway. The engine is an iron block and can take the power I want to make. And from what I've read all I really need is a transmission cross member, k frame with ls1 mounts, a wiring harness with ecu for an ls1 car 2000+, cluster. And the obvious parts to make the 6.0 work in the car (intake, injectors, oil pan, water pump, tb, fuel pump). It would be a lot more work but in the end wouldn't be much more than buying a z28. And it would have a stronger trans and engine. So many options. I just figure if I plan on keeping the car it will have that engine/trans setup someday anyway so why not do it right away and save some money.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

Depending on which turbo kit or even design you go with, you don't necessarily need a turbo k member but its helpful. My V1 Huron kit doesn't require one.

Also, I like the v6 car idea but if it were me, I would go stand alone instead of stock ecu. A couple of the major steps to aftermarket ecu setups are rewiring the engine and changing gauges. If you are already doing both, then may as well get a much better ecu out of the deal than stock.

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

I was looking at the Huron speed v2 AC kit. I'd really like to retain AC. As for the standalone I know pretty much every aftermarket ecu company sells plug and play kits for the ls engine. I was about to do megasquirt on my old car but it just seems like so much work. (Granted they didn't have a kit for my engine so I actually started a harness for ms3). And my engine was missing key sensors for full sequential injection. I know some have an auto tune feature that makes life a lot easier. I thought the stock ecu 2/3 bar speed density os would be enough for what I was looking for. I know there are tons of features with a standalone that it make it worth while though.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

The ms3 gold box is a pretty killer deal because it has a plug and play engine side harness (again have to do something with the gauge cluster though) and also now has transmission control built in. It's expensive but by the time you buy HP Tuners and learn to use it and buy a boost controller, you are within 3-400 of an MS3 setup. Plus the MS3 will do so many more things than stock.

If you had planned on keeping ac, then yeah a new k member was in order. I have wondered why no one has been able to get an aftermarket ac setup to work with a truck manifold kit though. I feel like it could just based off pictures I have seen.

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

I don't think I would be the one tuning it. Plus I'd have to buy new gauges and try to get a fuel gauge with the right impedance. Maybe if/when it would get FI I would look into doing the ms setup but for boos control I would still have to buy a separate 3 port solenoid. I know the k frame is needed for Ac but isn't a big part of it to fit all the piping nicley like downpipe and the wastegate pipe that plumbed back into the dp? Either way theBMR turbo k frame looks pretty nice and isn't too crazy expensive. Another question is I read when swapping cluster to v8 car cluster that you have to get the ecu/bcm flashed to read it? I can't imagine why that would be. I thought the only difference in clusters was how it reads the tach signal and relates that to rpm. Maybe I would also need a ls1 car BCM.

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

There is a shop in Nebraska called The Shop that did an MS3 setup on a procharged trans am and kept all of the stock gauges and kept them functional. I haven't contacted them to see how it was done but I guess it can be done. But yeah, you would need new gauges but running them isn't hard according to some posts I have seen on here. There are some aftermarket gauges that could run the CANBUS that MS3 outputs in and that would make wiring pretty easy.

As far as the BCM flashing, I am not sure about that as I have never looked into swapping a v6 car before.

LS325ci

iTrader: (3)

im guessing your coming from import world?

I only skimmed over this since i was already confused on why you want to go through all that trouble. so what is the purpose of this car and how much power are you after exactly?

ive never owned/used ms so im curious what is the added feature of ms that you MUST have over hptuners to bother with all that trouble?

I understand learning experience if thats so im all for it but since it sounds like your not going to tune it why bother?

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

I'm just going to continue this thread because I'm assuming very few people will see it. 1bdbrd if your still on here I figured I'd give you an update. I picked up a 2002 V6 camaro automatic for a fair price. High miles but the body is clean. Now that I actually have the car in front of me I've been able to look at exactly how extensive the swap will be. It may be wishful thinking but if I take it step by step I don't think it will be too bad. The car is not a y87 so it doesn't have a limited slip. RPO code says it's the basic 3.08 gears which is fine. I was crawling around under the car and noticed it has a 1 piece steel driveshaft. I was also looking at the steering rack and shaft and noticed that it does not have the rag joint style shaft. It's double u-joint and looks identical to the ls1 shaft. I'm hoping that I can use this steering rack and shaft unless I'm missing some info. Other than that I'm now going to start collecting parts while the car goes into storage. If you have any info on the steering rack and shaft or any input I'd appreciate it.

lmt0705

iTrader: (7)

Holley dominator ecu will replace every gage, sensor and controller you could need, plus trans brake, bump box, rev limiter, all your safety stuff for afr/fueling, very easy to run a flex fuel sensor as well. Go ptfe -10/-8 and be done with lines for good. I've redone my fuel system countless times trying to save a few bucks and as I made my car faster had to keep redoing it

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

Megasquirt will do all of those things plus traction control, boost by gear or speed, boost based on ethanol content etc without having any extra boxes added. Plus it won't cost a **** ton of money up front and every time you need to add something to it.

Also the software is way better on ms than Holley.

lmt0705

iTrader: (7)

Not familiar with that setup but it sounds good, when I was doing my homework on them most racers pointed me to the holley, I have full control of boost based on several parameters as well, traction control requires an additional piece. there both way better then the stock ECU and by the time you add up all the stuff you need in addition to hp tuners it won't be much more than an aftermarket ecu

1bdbrd

iTrader: (12)

Definitely agree with you on the price differences. If it were for the gauge requirements in my car I'd already have done the swap. But since neither will easily run the stock gauges I haven't yet.

lmt0705

iTrader: (7)

I'm just finishing up my touchscreen install now actually, I'll have every stock gage parameter including fuel sender. Then it's time to make a harness for inspections

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

Started the engine tear down. 6.0 lq4 stock bottom end with 317 heads, PAC 1218 valve springs, ls6 5308 cam, ls2 timing chain, arp head bolts. For the transmission the 4l80e is getting the transgo hd2 shift kit. I've got almost all the parts needed for the swap. BMR turbo k frame, BMR 4l80e crossmember, ls1 accessory drive, complete ls1 intake manifold. Ls1 engine harness, LT1 radiator, derale fans from the Huron speed kit, b&m tranny cooler. The only things I have to get still are the ac lines and power steering lines. Can't wait to get this thing swapped in!

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

Took the car for a drive yesterday (still a v6 car right now) and lost all oil pressure and it overheated. Luckily I made it to then end of my street before it died completely. Needless to say this swap has to happen now. The Lq4 is almost back together. Transmission is getting a full rebuild along with the shift kit at the moment. Still unsure about what th400 yoke I need but I won't know for sure until I get my trans back so I can take the tailshaft off and check. Also not sure if I'm going to use the truck wiring harness or the LS1 camaro harness.

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

Alright time for an update. Some of this info may help people who are going to attempt this in the future. Dropped the v6 and tranny out the bottom. Got the 6.0 mounted to the BMR subframe and the 4l80e bolted up to it. Dropped the car back down and bolted the k frame and BMR trans crossmember in. The ear on the driverside of the bellhousing needed to be cut off. We left the passenger side. We had to do some trimming to give clearance for the harness plug on the trans and clearance the passenger side for the cooling lines. I had to make the holes wider on the shifter cable bracket and bolted it to the trans. Didn't need to adjust the cable at all. Took the shift lever from the 4l60e from the v6 and swapped that on to the 4l80e. The cable snapped right on and works perfectly. For cooler lines I'm using some doorman lines from a 99 2500 Silverado to get me just past the ac compressor. From there I will convert to an fittings and hose for the aftermarket cooler. The stock torque arm works with the BMR trans crossmember. Got the gas pedal assembly swapped out for a cable driven setup and ran the throttle cable. Shouldn't be much longer till I should be able to start it. Also I got a conversion u-joint and plan to use the truck slip yoke with the stock camaro driveshaft (1 piece steel shaft) for now.

Akizzem

iTrader: (1)

One step close. Waiting on my huron speed kit right now. Got the fic1000 injectors installed with a full bypass return style system using the v6 fuel lines, aftermarket rails and -8 feed, -6 return, and an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Got the ls9 3 bar map installed with a short adapter harness. I'm using the truck round coils and brackets with the ls1 intake, the stock ls1 fuel rail interfered with the truck coil bracket. Also installed my madman 4l80e dipstick. Wasn't too much fun since the engine and trans were all mounted up. I had to unbolt the trans cross member and lower it down quite a bit. I also had to slightly bend the dipstick tube to get it to fit with the truck coils. But it's all in. Got the dual derale 16925 pusher fans installed and wired up. I opted to go with the lt1 radiator cover so I didn't have to look at the missing air filter from the stock airbox. Looks much cleaner. Also installed a BMR driveshaft loop that went in perfectly. At this point in the swap I haven't had very many problems.