Boost solenoid set up?
05-10-2017, 10:50 AM
#1
Boost solenoid set up? Can someone explain which would be the better way to plumb the solenoid & why? I have my tru boost set up like pic 2 as that is the way AEM shows in their instructions. Is there anything to gain by setting it up like pic 1? Thanks!
05-10-2017, 12:48 PM
#2
Are you having issues controlling boost?
The bottom piciture consistanly applies pressure to the bottom, while slowly applying boost pressure to the top, the difference only being spring pressure at any given amount of boost, this is good for 2-3 times the spring pressure before system backpressure becomes great enough the gate opens and limits boost potential
The top one applies boost pressure to the bottom only at 0%dc and as dc increases it not only applies boost to the top, it also takes it away from the bottom, so at 100% dc you'll have boost pressure plus spring pressure overcoming the system back pressure. I'm not sure of the potential over Wastegate spring pressure you can go as it's a system dynamic thing
The bottom piciture consistanly applies pressure to the bottom, while slowly applying boost pressure to the top, the difference only being spring pressure at any given amount of boost, this is good for 2-3 times the spring pressure before system backpressure becomes great enough the gate opens and limits boost potential
The top one applies boost pressure to the bottom only at 0%dc and as dc increases it not only applies boost to the top, it also takes it away from the bottom, so at 100% dc you'll have boost pressure plus spring pressure overcoming the system back pressure. I'm not sure of the potential over Wastegate spring pressure you can go as it's a system dynamic thing
05-10-2017, 01:07 PM
#6
the top diagram will net you a ton of boost on basically any wastegate spring because it will close off all pressure to the bottom of the gate and apply all the pressure to the top. Its a little more finiky to control but good for high boost.
The bottom diagram is the traditional style. Good to get 2-2.5 times waste gate spring pressure. Easier to control.
The bottom diagram is the traditional style. Good to get 2-2.5 times waste gate spring pressure. Easier to control.
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05-11-2017, 06:28 AM
#10
9 Second Club
Unless you know what you are doing, keep it simple and either use the bottom pic, or just simply blow into the bottom chamber and bleed off, with no connection to the top chamber.
There are easily half a dozen ways these things could be configured.
There are easily half a dozen ways these things could be configured.
05-14-2017, 12:03 PM
#12
Top picture I for obtaining max boost levels. I tried it with my Eboost2 controller and couldn't get it to control the boost level. I couldn't get it to stop overboosting which was set at 21psi.
I know use the bottom setup. Its for high backpressure systems. With a 10.7psi spring I make 13.6 at launch at 3800rpm with a Tbrake and its making 20psi at 1/2 second after launch with 45% duty cycle and holds steady during the run within .5psi Using the MS3 to control it now.
I know use the bottom setup. Its for high backpressure systems. With a 10.7psi spring I make 13.6 at launch at 3800rpm with a Tbrake and its making 20psi at 1/2 second after launch with 45% duty cycle and holds steady during the run within .5psi Using the MS3 to control it now.
05-14-2017, 01:11 PM
#13
Top picture I for obtaining max boost levels. I tried it with my Eboost2 controller and couldn't get it to control the boost level. I couldn't get it to stop overboosting which was set at 21psi.
I know use the bottom setup. Its for high backpressure systems. With a 10.7psi spring I make 13.6 at launch at 3800rpm with a Tbrake and its making 20psi at 1/2 second after launch with 45% duty cycle and holds steady during the run within .5psi Using the MS3 to control it now.
I know use the bottom setup. Its for high backpressure systems. With a 10.7psi spring I make 13.6 at launch at 3800rpm with a Tbrake and its making 20psi at 1/2 second after launch with 45% duty cycle and holds steady during the run within .5psi Using the MS3 to control it now.
05-14-2017, 01:13 PM
#14
9 Second Club
Eboost2 is a very good unit, and can be used with a variety of configurations as per their instructions.
But regardless of controllers, do not use the first drawing that is posted above unless you really need to...and know what you are doing.
It can be modified to make it a little easier to work but most people simply do not need to use that method.
But regardless of controllers, do not use the first drawing that is posted above unless you really need to...and know what you are doing.
It can be modified to make it a little easier to work but most people simply do not need to use that method.
05-14-2017, 01:31 PM
#15
I used the Eboost2 on the first pic and another diagram they have. There were 3 choices. When I switched to your second pic I also switched controller. I just found it easier to let the MS3 control it because the settings seem to be easier, for me personally anyway.
And what Steve said. The max boost setup can be tough to control. Was for me.
And what Steve said. The max boost setup can be tough to control. Was for me.
05-14-2017, 01:50 PM
#16
9 Second Club
If you had configured the plumbing as you do now with the MS, control would have been very easy with the EBoost too.
Again there are loads of plumbing options, all to give a different range of options. Some will work better/worse for different applications. But you need to choose what suits your setup best.
Far too many people deliberately complicate what is a pretty easy thing to get working.
Again there are loads of plumbing options, all to give a different range of options. Some will work better/worse for different applications. But you need to choose what suits your setup best.
Far too many people deliberately complicate what is a pretty easy thing to get working.
05-15-2017, 12:20 AM
#17
Staging Lane
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Yeah I had an eBoost street in one of my cars, they are a good thing. If it was spiking you may have had it plumbed up wrong.
Top diagram can give you better boost control and allow you to still generate fairly high boost even with a soft spring in it. You can dial it right back for the street and still wind big boost in at the track. The bottom diagram only bleeds boost off the top port, where as the top diagram bleeds off the middle and adds it to the top, kinda of doing two things at once to increase boost.
Simplest option is to do neither of those. Just put the solenoid in line with the middle port. Plumb it so that the two ports which have constant flow are going from the pressure source to the middle port on the gate.
Top diagram can give you better boost control and allow you to still generate fairly high boost even with a soft spring in it. You can dial it right back for the street and still wind big boost in at the track. The bottom diagram only bleeds boost off the top port, where as the top diagram bleeds off the middle and adds it to the top, kinda of doing two things at once to increase boost.
Simplest option is to do neither of those. Just put the solenoid in line with the middle port. Plumb it so that the two ports which have constant flow are going from the pressure source to the middle port on the gate.
05-15-2017, 01:00 AM
#18
Nice to hear the EBoost 2 is decent. I have one, still in the box.
I put one in my buddies car that I tune. And have really struggled operating it.
Sure wish they offered it with a USB port so I could program it with my laptop. But that's another story.
I've got his set up the simplest way just connected to the bottom port in a bleed configuration. Takes a while to find the correct DC to hit the boost I want. If he had his way....thank god he doesn't know how to use it....it would be set to 100%.
I still have a ****.....and although it works fine, I'm now seeing the need to control boost in low gear. So I'll be installing my unit and setting it up to do just that.
That's what, 100 or more button pushes? :-)
Ron
I put one in my buddies car that I tune. And have really struggled operating it.
Sure wish they offered it with a USB port so I could program it with my laptop. But that's another story.
I've got his set up the simplest way just connected to the bottom port in a bleed configuration. Takes a while to find the correct DC to hit the boost I want. If he had his way....thank god he doesn't know how to use it....it would be set to 100%.
I still have a ****.....and although it works fine, I'm now seeing the need to control boost in low gear. So I'll be installing my unit and setting it up to do just that.
That's what, 100 or more button pushes? :-)
Ron
05-15-2017, 02:13 AM
#19
to make sure you get the most out of your turbo setup, using traditional reliable methods (depends what you feel is exotic, i.e. CO2 control and boost vs speed are somewhat "exotic" but not really anymore in 2017)
1. pressure test EVERYTHING. intercooler (15+ psi), intake(what psi you run as with intercooler), crank case(1~psi is fine), and exhaust(20~psi usually). Seal it up really well for max benefit.
2.Wrap/Coat/Shield/Blanket the exhaust components from the intake components. Hot side, really hot. Cold side really cold.
3. Control max EGT using water injection if necessary (this basic cheap method is reliable using EGT gauge and 100% distilled) will keep you from melting parts and is highly recommended when using poor fuel (like 93 octane).
4. Use a high quality boost controller. My favorite stand alone open loop device is the greddy profec B Spec-II. It has a start boost function which holds the gate shut until desired pressure is reached, thus maximizing the spool character. Bottom picture (with lower gate feed to 100% pressure source) is traditional, reliable, and recommended for novices and intermediate builds. They can be purchase for $150~ used in most forums. I paid $100 for my last one.
general guidelines to get the most from the basic tools we have
1. pressure test EVERYTHING. intercooler (15+ psi), intake(what psi you run as with intercooler), crank case(1~psi is fine), and exhaust(20~psi usually). Seal it up really well for max benefit.
2.Wrap/Coat/Shield/Blanket the exhaust components from the intake components. Hot side, really hot. Cold side really cold.
3. Control max EGT using water injection if necessary (this basic cheap method is reliable using EGT gauge and 100% distilled) will keep you from melting parts and is highly recommended when using poor fuel (like 93 octane).
4. Use a high quality boost controller. My favorite stand alone open loop device is the greddy profec B Spec-II. It has a start boost function which holds the gate shut until desired pressure is reached, thus maximizing the spool character. Bottom picture (with lower gate feed to 100% pressure source) is traditional, reliable, and recommended for novices and intermediate builds. They can be purchase for $150~ used in most forums. I paid $100 for my last one.
general guidelines to get the most from the basic tools we have