Let's talk head(s)
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Here's how I'd boil this down.
Eliminate any that are out of the budget.
Choose where you'd like to make peak TQ in NA form and calculate the required Minimum Cross Section Area (MCSA) based on a peak velocity of about 0.7 Mach.
Search for independent flow data on the heads that are still on the table and narrow the selection down to the top 3 performers.
Choose the least expensive remaining option. Unless branding and brand image is important to you... then choose that one. Some guys are just Brodix guys... or AFR, or whatever. Nothing wrong with that.
Eliminate any that are out of the budget.
Choose where you'd like to make peak TQ in NA form and calculate the required Minimum Cross Section Area (MCSA) based on a peak velocity of about 0.7 Mach.
Search for independent flow data on the heads that are still on the table and narrow the selection down to the top 3 performers.
Choose the least expensive remaining option. Unless branding and brand image is important to you... then choose that one. Some guys are just Brodix guys... or AFR, or whatever. Nothing wrong with that.
Sounds like a waste of money for that power level, the D1X doesn't have enough nuts to hurt a stock bottom end. Throw your forged rotating assembly in a OEM block slap whatever stock heads are laying around on it and that will easily hold 30PSI and make over 1000whp. But granted it wont sound as cool to talk about hard parked at the car show. Personally I wouldn't even think about an aftermarket block and 6 bolt heads until looking to make north of 1200whp.
The mantic triple shifts very nicely, I would add sending the trans to RSG for a rebuild, makes shifting so crispy.
The mantic triple shifts very nicely, I would add sending the trans to RSG for a rebuild, makes shifting so crispy.
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From: Woodward Avenue
Sounds like a waste of money for that power level, the D1X doesn't have enough nuts to hurt a stock bottom end. Throw your forged rotating assembly in a OEM block slap whatever stock heads are laying around on it and that will easily hold 30PSI and make over 1000whp. But granted it wont sound as cool to talk about hard parked at the car show. Personally I wouldn't even think about an aftermarket block and 6 bolt heads until looking to make north of 1200whp.
The mantic triple shifts very nicely, I would add sending the trans to RSG for a rebuild, makes shifting so crispy.
The mantic triple shifts very nicely, I would add sending the trans to RSG for a rebuild, makes shifting so crispy.
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From: Woodward Avenue
You would be correct. I'm not married to the D1X but I'll run it and see how it performs. If it doesn't do what I like then I'll get a F1A-94 and I'll have the parts to support it.
Last edited by Detoxx03; May 18, 2017 at 03:39 PM.
I don't consider this a waste of money at all. I've been pushing the stock bottom end hard for over 5 years and before something bad happens to it I'm gonna do a proper build. I can say that just swapping the headunits the X made 3 psi more and pulled way harder up top with no other changes. I have a 3.55 handy for when the build is finished. Maybe it won't hurt the sbe and maybe it would but I'm not gonna find out. I also have someone getting me the block at their cost cause otherwise I was gonna do a LSA block. That's the reason I did the larger bore pistons. I also like Darts priority main oiling system. If I get the dart heads I'll be getting those at cost too. No matter what block I did I wasn't using stock heads. I don't do car shows and hard park so meh. Also I'm gonna take my Mantic twin out and do a triple. Trans is built already and diff is upgraded from RPM.
What's the price difference between the LSnext and LSX block all said and done? The LSX has priority main as well and available for $2400.
I get it but I don't see the stock heads as limiting factors under 1000whp. If going to all the trouble of 6 bolt setup I would get a headunit worthy of making the power.
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From: Woodward Avenue
What boost are you running the x to?
What's the price difference between the LSnext and LSX block all said and done? The LSX has priority main as well and available for $2400.
I get it but I don't see the stock heads as limiting factors under 1000whp. If going to all the trouble of 6 bolt setup I would get a headunit worthy of making the power.
What's the price difference between the LSnext and LSX block all said and done? The LSX has priority main as well and available for $2400.
I get it but I don't see the stock heads as limiting factors under 1000whp. If going to all the trouble of 6 bolt setup I would get a headunit worthy of making the power.
Yeah but the LSX needs a lot of machine work done also. Even without getting a deal on the Dart block I would spend less than a LSX. I'm getting the dart block for less than 2400 and don't need to have a bunch of machine work done.
I won't be under a 1000whp when it's done. It's almost making that now as it sits without the pumped compression and smaller pulley. I'm not risking anything by not putting a good set of heads on it just for the sake of saying it has stock heads. Not worth it to me.
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From: Woodward Avenue
Like I said in the other thread they are my front runner but I still want as much info and options as possible so I don't have to do this again.
I don't think you can go wrong with the TFS 245cc heads, but I still think the Dart heads would do just as well. If you run the Dart heads as cast, you'll be saving money over the TFS 245cc heads, but if you choose to have them CNC ported, they may end up costing more in the end. I really haven't seen any track times or dyno numbers of guys running those Dart heads on a boosted application. Steve runs them on his nitrous setup, and made damn good numbers with them. The heads work, but like with anything, you'll need to have a cam spec'd around them and the rest of the setup.
Is this like he proved the 417 motorsports intercooler worked or does he have actual facts this time?
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I forgot you were on stock bottom end ls3! haha...that's nuts putting down ~900whp for a long time with ruthless beatings on stock stuff like that.
If it was me I'd probably have oil squirters put in while all apart too since not expensive to do so and nice to have cylinder cooling for longer pulls, but that has nothing to do with heads.
I have LSX block but the LSNext looks like more modern design with some really cool features.
If it was me I'd probably have oil squirters put in while all apart too since not expensive to do so and nice to have cylinder cooling for longer pulls, but that has nothing to do with heads.
I have LSX block but the LSNext looks like more modern design with some really cool features.
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From: Mississippi
Certainly depends on what version you buy as GMPP offers ones machined for certain CI sizes 376 and 454 I believe and others rough for you to run what you want. But really the rough version still doesn't require any more machining then any other block requires for proper prep.
Is this like he proved the 417 motorsports intercooler worked or does he have actual facts this time?
Is this like he proved the 417 motorsports intercooler worked or does he have actual facts this time?
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From: SV, AZ
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From: Woodward Avenue
I don't think you can go wrong with the TFS 245cc heads, but I still think the Dart heads would do just as well. If you run the Dart heads as cast, you'll be saving money over the TFS 245cc heads, but if you choose to have them CNC ported, they may end up costing more in the end. I really haven't seen any track times or dyno numbers of guys running those Dart heads on a boosted application. Steve runs them on his nitrous setup, and made damn good numbers with them. The heads work, but like with anything, you'll need to have a cam spec'd around them and the rest of the setup.
I know someone with a SS that runs them on a dart block with a F1C-94. Performs pretty well.