they came at like .028 so I put 'em in that way. I had the tr6's at ~.025

they dont need any messing with dwell settings do they?

pretty sure I didnt hurt any plugs. I have really easy plug access (two driver side truck manis)

 

Na I've never had to mess with dwell. That's pretty odd to me. Did you use the projected or non?

 

Dwell is for the coils.

 

in my opinion the most important part about that plug change is you are getting away from extended tips. I use 5671-7s but theyre basically the same just a gasket seat instead of taper.
I also like a tighter gap than 28. i usually do 22-24. I do like 18 on my evo but that turd sees ~32psi on only 93.
lots of good info in this thread. thanks.

 

x2 on staying away from extended tip plugs on a boosted setup. Br7ef is the nonprojected and efs is the projected tip.

 

Run lots of boost with regular projected plugs for years without issue.....if you're melting plugs, it's tuning related.

As for the OP's query, again there is no secret. It's quite simple, build and tune it right with pump gas in mind and there wont be a problem. And you certainly do not need to retain a MAF.

 

If the horsepower number... the actual number, is all that matters and this is a purely hypothetical inquiry...

Yes. Cubes, lower compression, and RPM.

 

Cubes can actually make things worse. It typically gives higher torque at a lower rpm, more cylinder pressure at peak torque, and more back pressure. This is unless you run a huge turbo to drop cylinder pressures back down.

 

There are endless what if's and draw backs to any solution. Everything is always a compromise.

Simple question. Simple answer. Didn't want to add anything to it, other than assume we're talking within the LS architecture.

Removing that, if you can move 2000 hp worth of air, you can make 2000 hp on 87 octane.

But, but, but... yes, there are endless but's.

 

hey I'm not the one who came in and posted they do everything opposite of the general insight lol. I though we were having a discussion.

 

That may have come off wrong. The point was that the OP is asking a very simple and general question. A lot of guys here seem to add the missing parts of a question, in order to suite the answer they want to give. I've done it. I'm not innocent of the behavior.

The fact of the matter, for me, is I come here to learn and help people learn. And good answers come from good questions. I want to draw the better questions out of the OP before addressing them, instead of puking too much information all over the place.

And, I don't want to chastise the OP for not being specific enough. Obviously, it's specific enough for him. Who am I to say? Maybe, for him, it's a good question for his individual learning curve? Now-a-days, I just answer the question that's presented. I'm tired of arguing pointless, meaningless bullshit on the internet. Like, do I really need to win an internet squabble to feel validated in life?

But, in response to your statement, conversationally... Yes that's a good point. However, it should, I think, be qualified with, that it assumes the entire engine combination isn't purpose built. Example is if you add cubes but don't have the intake runner ports to support it, yes it would likely respond the way you described. Same with the turbo selection as you mentioned. And same goes with the cam.

However, if the entire combination is purpose designed and built with components that support each other, and support the primary goal, cubes can rev and make tons of horsepower. And, there are draw backs to that too.

Sonny Leonard and the like have no problem spinning 800-1000ci engines 8500+ and making huge power. But the architecture is there to support it.

 

All fair points. In general I really like this topic because not alot of people ask questions about 93 only setups. Everybody runs meth or e85 or race gas so it's nice to hear some discussion about pump only. I don't claim to know all the tricks so I'm definitely interested in hearing from others what's worked for them as well.

 

just keep adding boost until you burn a piston then back it off a little

for real though, im planning to start pushing mine pretty hard on 100% 93 and im still figuring out a good approach. I have been targeting 11.7 afr with good results but i havent gone past 15psi yet in my truck(need a second pump in there). my evo has been happy at 11.6 at 30-32psi but i havent read the plugs. Ive been running it on that tune for almost a year now so its obviously working. A lot of the evo guys seem to run a lot richer than that, usually like 11.2 which seems excessive to me.

 

There are no tricks.

People seem to have lost the plot in many ways. Just keep the CR sensible for the build and making the power is easy with the right supporting parts.

Of course cubes can make that task even easier as lets face it, if you're starting with a 427 it's going to be a hell of a lot easier to make 1k, than it is with a 323, as you'd have an easy 100-150hp head start n/a

 

if you're going to lean on it and the turbo isn't massive I'd keep it richer than 11.7 11.6. slightly richer like 11.2 does have advantages of cooling stuff off a bit. I typically shoot for 11.2 to 11.4 on my stuff. Even my blower car is 11.4.

 

And I bet the Evo isnt 10:1...11:1...

Point proven, it's easy

People over the last few years seem to have this obsession with very high CR's. Which in many ways is comical, as when I joined this forum some 13-14 years ago I can recall everyone saying you needed to be down around 8.0:1 CR with boost otherwise it will lift the heads. And I was like WTF BS is everyone smoking here ?

Maybe if you want to be running 30-40psi boost you can go that low, but not for the stuff many were talking about.

Obviously fancy fuels like E85 are allowing people to run high CR's and get away with it, but that doesnt change what has been basic tuning/building for normal fuels for many many years.

 

non projected br7ef

previously using the projected tr6



the reason i'm asking about dwell is I'm using the stock GM d585 dwell times and after the switch in plugs I was reading around and came across some old *** threads with people saying the dwell time needs increased with forced induction and non projected tips.

 

its 8.8 i think. my 5.3 is stock so i think that is 9.5

d585s are very sensitive to dwell times. if you run too much dwell they will prefire which advances your timing. I put d585s on my evo and it took a few weeks of pulling my hair out to get it right. It was kicking back on my starter enough to break it because of all the dwell. I am thinking about switching over to the late model truck coils, ive heard really good things about those and they wont pre-fire like the d585s will. My understanding is a lot less people are using those coils now and most people seem to like the square truck coils.

 

I agree. I have a pet project (on paper) that I'm working on for 87 octane. But, any pump only conversation is pretty rare around here.

From my point of view, the basic answer is, once you reach the limit for a specific combination of engine parameters and fuel, something has to change. And any change will have it's inherent pluses and minuses, in contrast to the original combination.

Increase fuel quality/change fuel type
Lower compression and add boost
Increase cubic inches
Increase the target RPM

Any single one of those will increase horsepower potential at a cost, especially if it's the only change made.

One of the things that is rarely discussed is maximizing on a combination by increasing boost at rpm's beyond peak torque. Making up for what otherwise would be declining volumetric efficiency as the rate of air demand starts to exceed what the valve timing and intake port dimensions are capable of providing, which should help carry peak torque deeper into the rpm band and decay at a slower rate, until something else becomes the limiting factor. The turbine, or whatever.

On paper, a side benefit to this is, as the volumetric efficiency decays and it takes more and more manifold pressure to make up for it... essentially, the charge temp in the cylinder is reduced. Even though it's incresaded in the manifold. The increased charge temperature, pre intercooler, allows the intercooler to remove more thermal energy from the charge air due to the increased temperature differential, or Delta. When, the mass of air that makes it into the cylinder is much the same.

You might notice, in a lot of builds that Steve Morris does, he takes advantage of it quite well.

Maybe that's the kind of "secret" the OP was looking for? Or maybe it's a prime example of puking too much information? Dunno.

Either way it's probably way too much for the average reader here. Oh well. Perhaps it will expand some minds and flower into some great discussions over the next year or so as the thoughts develop. Time will tell.

 

twin ebay 66/62s
will adding that extra fuel make it harder to light off from a spark plug/ignition standpoint? Will it blow black smoke when it is that rich?