4.8 or 5.3 pros and cons for turbo build
08-10-2017, 05:14 PM
#1
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4.8 or 5.3 pros and cons for turbo build Hello everybody. I have a question ,really need the input of the turbo guys here. I'm starting to put together a small little LS that's going to be going in my 85 Monte Carlo ,good old G body. My 2000 TA has heads cam intake etc. but is too pretty and worth too much to me to chop it up to make a race car,so monte it is lol. Now to my questions. I have a fairly good amount experience with the 5.7 LS1, nitrous/tuning/etc. and have rebuilt the motor and the tremec myself, but I am new to the turbo field. I'm hearing different things from different people when it comes to using the 4.8 or the 5.3. Also what kind of turbo to use. I would really rather stick to one single large Turbo not a twin. I'm hoping to see around 7 to 800hp on the motor with a good amount of boost and meth. As with all things it's going to be on a budget so no $4000 turbo LOL Is this possible? Also if anybody has any preference in engine control/tuning software that works better on a turbo setup please chime in. Planning on goin microsquirt but..?Also if somebody has a combo close to what I am describing let me know the numbers/how easy was it to tune?
Thanks in advance!
Thanks in advance!
08-10-2017, 05:32 PM
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I have read and watched so much stuff already I just wanted to talk to somebody That had actually done it themselves or had any input that was not on the videos / write-ups that everyone has access too.
08-10-2017, 05:47 PM
#4
I did my first LS swap recently (4-17-17 got it running/driving) single turbo and so far it was exactly what I thought it would be. Hardest non-swap related job was the turbo plumbing fabrication which took approx 20 hours for the major up front crossover stuff, and most of a downpipe, we used a cheap 220V harbor freight gas shielded mig with some high quality filler materials. You have to pay attention to things like oil line orientation, and shield/wrap/coat everything in sight.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
08-10-2017, 06:09 PM
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I did my first LS swap recently (4-17-17 got it running/driving) single turbo and so far it was exactly what I thought it would be. Hardest non-swap related job was the turbo plumbing fabrication which took approx 20 hours for the major up front crossover stuff, and most of a downpipe, we used a cheap 220V harbor freight gas shielded mig with some high quality filler materials. You have to pay attention to things like oil line orientation, and shield/wrap/coat everything in sight.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
08-10-2017, 06:28 PM
#6
Well the rule of thumb in any car-performance ideal is " no replacement for displacement". Literally buy the biggest engine you can if they are all the same price. Otherwise, calculate the cost vs reward.
So, in the truck engine world, the 5.3 is practically free. The 6.0 is much more expensive and rare. So the 5.3 won. A 4.8 doesn't even blip on the radar given the already nearly-free pricetag of the 5.3
As to the turbo. I have been sizing turbochargers for almost 10 years for approx 100 cars (non-LS applications). For street cars I Like to pick an "OEM" equivalent turbo, i.e. a turbo which will reach its power potential limit right around where the max power desired from AN OEM engine will wind up. In other words, if you desire 600hp from the engine, I will want my turbo to be almost running off the edge of the map around 600hp. This makes for the best response from the unit while also not over-flowing it.
I've attached the map. This is the S364 Borg warner, charted to a mild 5.3 (bigger than a stock cam). And you can see that it still won't quite fall off the map even with some reasonable VE from the engine. The turbo is considered "small" in the LS community (I don't know and have never seen anybody else use one this small) yet this 'fact' boggles my mind considering this unit provides nearly 800 horsepower max output (at boost regions higher than I will run it) so it is literally more turbo than I need already, I could not imagine something even larger.
So, in the truck engine world, the 5.3 is practically free. The 6.0 is much more expensive and rare. So the 5.3 won. A 4.8 doesn't even blip on the radar given the already nearly-free pricetag of the 5.3
As to the turbo. I have been sizing turbochargers for almost 10 years for approx 100 cars (non-LS applications). For street cars I Like to pick an "OEM" equivalent turbo, i.e. a turbo which will reach its power potential limit right around where the max power desired from AN OEM engine will wind up. In other words, if you desire 600hp from the engine, I will want my turbo to be almost running off the edge of the map around 600hp. This makes for the best response from the unit while also not over-flowing it.
I've attached the map. This is the S364 Borg warner, charted to a mild 5.3 (bigger than a stock cam). And you can see that it still won't quite fall off the map even with some reasonable VE from the engine. The turbo is considered "small" in the LS community (I don't know and have never seen anybody else use one this small) yet this 'fact' boggles my mind considering this unit provides nearly 800 horsepower max output (at boost regions higher than I will run it) so it is literally more turbo than I need already, I could not imagine something even larger.
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08-11-2017, 08:21 AM
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I did my first LS swap recently (4-17-17 got it running/driving) single turbo and so far it was exactly what I thought it would be. Hardest non-swap related job was the turbo plumbing fabrication which took approx 20 hours for the major up front crossover stuff, and most of a downpipe, we used a cheap 220V harbor freight gas shielded mig with some high quality filler materials. You have to pay attention to things like oil line orientation, and shield/wrap/coat everything in sight.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
If you have more specific questions please fire away Ill do my best. I have approx 800 miles on my swap so far, running about 7psi of boost atm, currently waiting on some intercooler plumbing. It isn't done yet by any means, but I am good enough mechanic to drive a swap before its done.
One of best part about turbocharging the LS engine is that you can easily pass the OEM bottom end limit for horsepower without doing anything to the engine at all. In other words, a $400 junkyard LS can put out 500-600 horsepower easily without being opened up at all, enough to ruin the engine if you kept turning it up more and more. It eliminates the need for expensive engine parts, like cam/heads/intake related stuff. This way you avoid the machine shop, avoid assembly errors, avoid downtime. Just swap in and go. Blow it up? Swap in another one and go again.
08-11-2017, 08:47 AM
#11
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I didn't even read kingtal0n's replies, but just ignore anything he posts on here whether its correct or not (probably not). He just started his first LS swap even though he's been trolling this place since 2011.
You can watch the Sloppy Mechanics stuff, but there are like 1000+ videos so you better take a day off. There are a few dozen combos in those videos that should give you most of the info you want.
The search feature on this site works as well, so does just scrolling through the forced induction section trying to find a topic that closely resembles what you're wanting to do.
You can watch the Sloppy Mechanics stuff, but there are like 1000+ videos so you better take a day off. There are a few dozen combos in those videos that should give you most of the info you want.
The search feature on this site works as well, so does just scrolling through the forced induction section trying to find a topic that closely resembles what you're wanting to do.
08-11-2017, 08:53 AM
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I didn't even read kingtal0n's replies, but just ignore anything he posts on here whether its correct or not (probably not). He just started his first LS swap even though he's been trolling this place since 2011.
You can watch the Sloppy Mechanics stuff, but there are like 1000+ videos so you better take a day off. There are a few dozen combos in those videos that should give you most of the info you want.
The search feature on this site works as well, so does just scrolling through the forced induction section trying to find a topic that closely resembles what you're wanting to do.
You can watch the Sloppy Mechanics stuff, but there are like 1000+ videos so you better take a day off. There are a few dozen combos in those videos that should give you most of the info you want.
The search feature on this site works as well, so does just scrolling through the forced induction section trying to find a topic that closely resembles what you're wanting to do.
08-12-2017, 02:20 PM
#13
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I didn't read through all the responses, but in answer to your original guestion, If your decided to go with a 4.8/5.3 I can't Think of any cons, I mean blow that bi#h up and get another one lol! I like the idea of meth as safety net/get you to the power level you want. I personally feel that a "few missing cubes" can easily be offset by a few more lbs of boost!
Also, as 6.0s seem to be cast from solid gold, what's more fun than having a "smaller" motor and being dumb fast
Also, as 6.0s seem to be cast from solid gold, what's more fun than having a "smaller" motor and being dumb fast
08-12-2017, 10:44 PM
#15
Disregard kingtalon's BS about pushing the bottom end to the limit without opening the engine. With anything other than mild amounts of boost you WILL need to upgrade the valve springs. Once you upgrade the valve springs the pushrods will start to flex, so you need to upgrade those as well. After those issues are taken into account, you should be good until you start wanting more than 1000 hp. I would personally go with the smaller 4.8 for a dragstrip queen, or the larger 5.3 for a street motor. My reasoning is that the smaller motor can make more hp for a given turbo size, but the larger motor has more torque for street use off-boost.
08-13-2017, 09:27 AM
#16
Disregard kingtalon's BS about pushing the bottom end to the limit without opening the engine. With anything other than mild amounts of boost you WILL need to upgrade the valve springs. Once you upgrade the valve springs the pushrods will start to flex, so you need to upgrade those as well. After those issues are taken into account, you should be good until you start wanting more than 1000 hp. I would personally go with the smaller 4.8 for a dragstrip queen, or the larger 5.3 for a street motor. My reasoning is that the smaller motor can make more hp for a given turbo size, but the larger motor has more torque for street use off-boost.
people here love to hate on me because I'm smurf. They blindly post whatever nonsense followed by my name, in the hopes that new comers will be swayed by the power of the forum's posting (as if a little box of text from one person is any better or more correct than any other) and their own ignorance. To this I say, use your head, dear reader, and you decide whats really going on.
08-13-2017, 11:54 AM
#17
None of that **** is in the bottom end. lrn2terminology
people here love to hate on me because I'm smurf. They blindly post whatever nonsense followed by my name, in the hopes that new comers will be swayed by the power of the forum's posting (as if a little box of text from one person is any better or more correct than any other) and their own ignorance. To this I say, use your head, dear reader, and you decide whats really going on.
people here love to hate on me because I'm smurf. They blindly post whatever nonsense followed by my name, in the hopes that new comers will be swayed by the power of the forum's posting (as if a little box of text from one person is any better or more correct than any other) and their own ignorance. To this I say, use your head, dear reader, and you decide whats really going on.
08-14-2017, 10:20 AM
#20
Oh come now. You have seen what happens when I try 2 sentence explanations. It still turns into a burnhouse in this forum because nobody can grasp what I was thinking with 2 sentances.
Get me some of that burn gel, so I can load it into my fire hydrant and douse the rats.