Forced Induction Superchargers | Turbochargers | Intercoolers

Boost referenced FPR

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 09-23-2017, 10:01 AM
  #1  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
70c10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default Boost referenced FPR

Morning Gents, I'm going to be plumbing in a regulator today for my single turbo Ls1. My plan is to use my walbro 255 I have in the tank, -6 an lines, a 10 micron filter inline after the pump feeding the drivers side speed inc rails. Then out of the pass side rail to the reg. Out of the reg back to the tank. Can I install the guage off the rail (leave it where it is) or do I need it on the regulator. See the pic of my current set up and what I'm thinking about. Let me know if this will work please.
Old 09-23-2017, 10:50 AM
  #2  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (7)
 
forcd ind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: woodbine, md
Posts: 4,116
Received 230 Likes on 162 Posts

Default

That's how I did mine
Old 09-23-2017, 12:30 PM
  #3  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
70c10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by forcd ind
That's how I did mine
Where did you mount your gauge and where did you hook the Vacuum port on the Reg to?
Old 09-23-2017, 01:06 PM
  #4  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (7)
 
forcd ind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: woodbine, md
Posts: 4,116
Received 230 Likes on 162 Posts

Default

My gauge was where the one in the pic is-I used a boost only line to the reg,
I didn't want it to see vac. so I could just start at 43 lbs
I tapped into the pipe right out of the turbo. People do it diff., this worked fine for me
Old 09-23-2017, 06:57 PM
  #5  
9 Second Club
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 13,616
Received 179 Likes on 154 Posts

Default

The normal place for the signal for the FPR is the intake manifold, but you could choose to do it differently if you wish.
Old 09-23-2017, 07:07 PM
  #6  
TECH Apprentice
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
70c10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 362
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by stevieturbo
The normal place for the signal for the FPR is the intake manifold, but you could choose to do it differently if you wish.
can I tap off of the back of the intake manifold where my boost gauge is connected to? Same spot as the map sensor I don't have power brakes so I could reduce that and connect there?
Old 09-23-2017, 07:27 PM
  #7  
9 Second Club
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 13,616
Received 179 Likes on 154 Posts

Default

Anywhere off the main intake plenum would be ideal.

I prefer dedicated lines from this rather than sharing, but sharing with a boost gauge would be fine.
Old 09-24-2017, 06:11 AM
  #8  
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (7)
 
forcd ind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: woodbine, md
Posts: 4,116
Received 230 Likes on 162 Posts

Default

Just keep in mind if you use a vac/boost source for the reg, if you set your base pressure with the engine off, it will drop below that 3-5 lbs with engine vac, or you can choose to set it with the engine idling-liquid filed gauges can read off when hot also.
Old 09-24-2017, 06:15 AM
  #9  
9 Second Club
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 13,616
Received 179 Likes on 154 Posts

Default

base pressure should always be set with engine running, vac/signal line disconnected.
Old 09-24-2017, 07:55 AM
  #10  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes on 70 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by forcd ind
Just keep in mind if you use a vac/boost source for the reg, if you set your base pressure with the engine off, it will drop below that 3-5 lbs with engine vac, or you can choose to set it with the engine idling-liquid filed gauges can read off when hot also.
This is true. I set mine to 60 psi engine off and found it was dropping to 50 during vacuum/idling. Kinda makes me want to change how its hooked up.
Old 09-24-2017, 11:23 AM
  #11  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (25)
 
truckdoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Portlandia
Posts: 6,330
Received 526 Likes on 356 Posts

Default

i mean, does that matter? wouldn't you just scale that in the tune with observed afr vs commanded % error?

that is not a sarcastic question. i truly want to know.
Old 09-24-2017, 11:35 AM
  #12  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes on 70 Posts

Default

Apparently if using a manifold source for signal, you scale the tune for even flow across the vacuum range, because the FPR is reducing pressure under vacuum. So you set pressure with the engine off, and set flow evenly across the tune and let the FPR do the work. Or you could boost reference only, and leave the normal style settings for injector flow rate (which are vaccum to 0 psi only) and let the FPR do the work under boost only.
Old 09-24-2017, 02:23 PM
  #13  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
 
3 window's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,051
Received 185 Likes on 135 Posts
Default

The regulator hooked to vacuum, could also help with reducing injector pulse width if running large injectors. Possibly improving idle quality.
Old 09-24-2017, 02:56 PM
  #14  
9 Second Club
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 13,616
Received 179 Likes on 154 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 01ssreda4
This is true. I set mine to 60 psi engine off and found it was dropping to 50 during vacuum/idling. Kinda makes me want to change how its hooked up.
It's supposed to.

You're trying to maintain a static pressure delta across the injector at all times.

Although OEM dead end non referenced setup accounts for not doing this by adjusting fueling within the tune instead.
Old 09-24-2017, 03:48 PM
  #15  
Banned
iTrader: (1)
 
kingtal0n's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: florida
Posts: 2,261
Received 18 Likes on 18 Posts
Default

The best way for normal street cars is to let the vacuum pull the pressure down, thus relieving strain on the fuel pump. The pump life may be improved by keeping pressure lower.
Old 09-24-2017, 03:56 PM
  #16  
9 Second Club
 
stevieturbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 13,616
Received 179 Likes on 154 Posts

Default

What sort of shitty pumps are you using that you can even dream that up as a reason ??
Old 09-24-2017, 05:56 PM
  #17  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
 
3 window's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,051
Received 185 Likes on 135 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by kingtal0n
The best way for normal street cars is to let the vacuum pull the pressure down, thus relieving strain on the fuel pump. The pump life may be improved by keeping pressure lower.
Alright, I’m calling you out. Please explain how a vacuum signal to a fuel regulator changes the fuel pressure output of an electric fuel pump (“by relieving the strain on the pump”) providing the voltage to the pump remains the same? Second part, please explain how a vacuum/boost referenced fuel regulator works.
Old 09-24-2017, 06:11 PM
  #18  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Project GatTagO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: The City of Fountains
Posts: 10,105
Received 1,394 Likes on 880 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by 3 window
Alright, I’m calling you out. Please explain how a vacuum signal to a fuel regulator changes the fuel pressure output of an electric fuel pump (“by relieving the strain on the pump”) providing the voltage to the pump remains the same? Second part, please explain how a vacuum/boost referenced fuel regulator works.
Fuel pressure is a measure of restriction. If you allow vacuum to lower fuel pressure at the rail with a vacuum referenced FPR, then the lower pressure makes it easier on the pump. GM did this for years. The reverse is true under boost. This is done to maintain constant pressure at the injectors due to boost. GM did this for years. That's how I understand it...

Andrew
Old 09-24-2017, 06:15 PM
  #19  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (96)
 
01ssreda4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Turnin' Wrenches Infractions: 005
Posts: 24,240
Likes: 0
Received 79 Likes on 70 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by stevieturbo
What sort of shitty pumps are you using that you can even dream that up as a reason ??
Took the words right outta my mouth.
Old 09-24-2017, 06:28 PM
  #20  
TECH Addict
iTrader: (1)
 
3 window's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,051
Received 185 Likes on 135 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Project GatTagO
Fuel pressure is a measure of restriction. If you allow vacuum to lower fuel pressure at the rail with a vacuum referenced FPR, then the lower pressure makes it easier on the pump. GM did this for years. The reverse is true under boost. This is done to maintain constant pressure at the injectors due to boost. GM did this for years. That's how I understand it...

Andrew
Kinda wanted him to explain it, but some ecus reduce voltage to the pumps at low demand conditions. What about systems that maintain constant voltage to the pump(s)? What about return style regulators? Don't tell me that the outlet pressure of the pump changes (hence reducing the workload) because you have a vacuum line to the regulator. You know better than that.


Quick Reply: Boost referenced FPR



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:26 AM.