M1 alky with Twin 88s Non intercooled
12-21-2017, 02:57 PM
#1
M1 alky with Twin 88s Non intercooled After pricing out some GOOD A2W intercoolers ( Garrett core based) such as Chiseled intercoolers. I'm starting to see that a set of large Billet Atomizer injectors aren't much more, maybe about $400..plus I already have enough fuel system for alcohol ( Waterman 20gpm pump) I'm starting to think ditching the intercooler , piping, and 12 gallon water-tank idea as It would save a hell ton of weight.. I'm wanting to do E85 on the street NON- intercooled, probably 20 psi or so on the street which should still make a good amount of power. Alky will be used at the track or at any higher boost setting to really maximize the setup. Do you guys really think I'd see High IAT's with twin 88s on a 427"? ( Twin Garrett GT5088's) Turbo's are mounted in the grill which should also help with cool ambient air intake. turbo's really shouldn't be working too hard...Some guys with similar setups are saying they see around 120-130* around 20psi with a 400" engine with twin 80's, I know this can vary from setup to setup though . I was planning on grabbing a set of 700lb Billet atomizers for the additional fuel system for the alcohol, and ill be using a cam driven Waterman 20gpm pump off of my Jesel Belt drive. Both fuel systems are completely divorced from one another.Using Moran 235's for the E85 fuel rail
12-21-2017, 03:10 PM
#2
Ron, at 20psi you will prob never be higher then 150 at the stripe. When you lean on it hard 50psi or so about 230+ at the stripe on a 60-80 degree day. E85 under 150 is pretty safe with conservative timing.
12-22-2017, 07:03 AM
#4
Oh man get ready to never want to run any other fuel. It will be night and day on getting the turbos lit, spool will be twice as fast. 700s at 90psi base will make about 2200-2500hp depending on combo and tune up. We only run 700s and 245s on the Impala.
12-22-2017, 09:00 AM
#7
We build non intercooled E85 M1 and M5 motors. At 20PSI non intercooled you will be OK, IAT will likely be in the low 200s but it will depend on the set up. I have personally run them into the low 300s (high enough to melt the seals on the sides of the throttle body). The motor is tough to keep head gaskets in at that kind of boost and IAT with E85 but it is possible when very conservative on timing and excessively rich.
On m1 or m5 you are limitless, We have several in the low to mid 2kHP range and a few in the high 2k HP with 2 that we are working on breaking into the 3kHP range with. They all work great. We switch back and fourth from M1 to M5 and so do our customers. Keep it on the rich side, You will have to do more oil changes but it will stay together with minimal power loss.
Between M1 and M5 you will see a quicker spool time on the M5 and a little more power at the same boost level. M1 likes to be in the 3.8-4.2AFR Range, The M5 likes 3.3-3.5AFR. We will use M1 on sticky tracks that there is never a need for pedaling the car. We run M5 on ALL no prep cars where they are constantly being pedaled. M5 will need less timing. If you run big timing on M5 you will see a lot of bent rods at high HP(2kHP+).
On m1 or m5 you are limitless, We have several in the low to mid 2kHP range and a few in the high 2k HP with 2 that we are working on breaking into the 3kHP range with. They all work great. We switch back and fourth from M1 to M5 and so do our customers. Keep it on the rich side, You will have to do more oil changes but it will stay together with minimal power loss.
Between M1 and M5 you will see a quicker spool time on the M5 and a little more power at the same boost level. M1 likes to be in the 3.8-4.2AFR Range, The M5 likes 3.3-3.5AFR. We will use M1 on sticky tracks that there is never a need for pedaling the car. We run M5 on ALL no prep cars where they are constantly being pedaled. M5 will need less timing. If you run big timing on M5 you will see a lot of bent rods at high HP(2kHP+).
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12-22-2017, 05:38 PM
#9
We build non intercooled E85 M1 and M5 motors. At 20PSI non intercooled you will be OK, IAT will likely be in the low 200s but it will depend on the set up. I have personally run them into the low 300s (high enough to melt the seals on the sides of the throttle body). The motor is tough to keep head gaskets in at that kind of boost and IAT with E85 but it is possible when very conservative on timing and excessively rich.
On m1 or m5 you are limitless, We have several in the low to mid 2kHP range and a few in the high 2k HP with 2 that we are working on breaking into the 3kHP range with. They all work great. We switch back and fourth from M1 to M5 and so do our customers. Keep it on the rich side, You will have to do more oil changes but it will stay together with minimal power loss.
Between M1 and M5 you will see a quicker spool time on the M5 and a little more power at the same boost level. M1 likes to be in the 3.8-4.2AFR Range, The M5 likes 3.3-3.5AFR. We will use M1 on sticky tracks that there is never a need for pedaling the car. We run M5 on ALL no prep cars where they are constantly being pedaled. M5 will need less timing. If you run big timing on M5 you will see a lot of bent rods at high HP(2kHP+).
On m1 or m5 you are limitless, We have several in the low to mid 2kHP range and a few in the high 2k HP with 2 that we are working on breaking into the 3kHP range with. They all work great. We switch back and fourth from M1 to M5 and so do our customers. Keep it on the rich side, You will have to do more oil changes but it will stay together with minimal power loss.
Between M1 and M5 you will see a quicker spool time on the M5 and a little more power at the same boost level. M1 likes to be in the 3.8-4.2AFR Range, The M5 likes 3.3-3.5AFR. We will use M1 on sticky tracks that there is never a need for pedaling the car. We run M5 on ALL no prep cars where they are constantly being pedaled. M5 will need less timing. If you run big timing on M5 you will see a lot of bent rods at high HP(2kHP+).
12-22-2017, 10:24 PM
#10
Bottom line is that if you can't flush a far less oxygenated fuel through your system before any sort of down time, you will have problems. Just be glad you aren't dealing with nitromethane, where you have to worry about flushing nitric acid out of the exhaust on top of the methanol worries.
12-23-2017, 02:13 AM
#11
Bottom line is that if you can't flush a far less oxygenated fuel through your system before any sort of down time, you will have problems. Just be glad you aren't dealing with nitromethane, where you have to worry about flushing nitric acid out of the exhaust on top of the methanol worries.
Ah I see, so what do you consider excessive down time? Like days, weeks, or months? I’m guessing you mean just run pump 93 through the Alky lines/injectors If Alcohol isn’t gonna be Used for a while
12-23-2017, 08:59 PM
#12
This varies a lot. Whenever methanol contacts aluminum, it can eat the oxide coating that instantly forms any time aluminum is exposed to moisture in the air. This means that a little of your aluminum goes out the tailpipe with every single methanol run cycle. If you want the power from the meth, this is just a trade-off you have to live with. The part that is under your control mostly lies with the supply system. If aluminum fittings are to be used, anodized fittings inhibit corrosion. If stainless steel is used, corrosion can be as little as a few ten thousandths of a millimeter per year with constant submersion. Brass is almost impervious to meth corrosion. The real issues I see potentially causing a problem are with the pump and injectors (and perhaps fuel cell). I would personally not want to go for more than a few days without purging the system, but reality is that you may get away with leaving it for months without issue if you are using the most corrosion resistant parts for your fuel system.
12-26-2017, 01:58 PM
#15
We will purge ours if it is going to be more than 2 weeks or so. The M5 is pretty corrosive. The cylinder walls look almost like they have been rusted and stained but never had issues from it. If you can get away with M1 run it, If not the M5 works great, Just know what you are getting into.
12-26-2017, 02:15 PM
#17
I agree but the response on M5 is much better. If he is racing something that has a high probability of pedaling the car M5 is a better fuel. It is all about the trade, What works vs the cost of it.
12-26-2017, 03:05 PM
#18
That’s like the third time I’ve seen someone mentioning M5 is better in a “pedaling” situation. Is that because the throttle response is so much more responsive with that ? Would it be a night and day difference between E 85 and M5 as far as throttle response ?
12-26-2017, 03:29 PM
#19
The peddling deal is interesting to me too. Dave's car comes on like a darn blower car on a quick pedal job, usually gets ugly. I have no back to back data on something like that though.
12-26-2017, 03:56 PM
#20
I personally run E85 M1 and m5 on my car, I can tell you it is night and day when fractions of a second count. I can make the same power and run the same time on M1 as i can on M5 on a good track. My spool time is about 1.7 seconds on M1 and 1.05 on M5, I can feel the difference when I switch back an fourth on the way it pedals.
That being said if you have a car that has a large motor with small turbos or turbos that are at their peak it will have less effect. We have a build that runs two 80s instead of a single 104 and it seems to be much more responsive on both fuels with less of a difference between them on the twin set up.
That being said if you have a car that has a large motor with small turbos or turbos that are at their peak it will have less effect. We have a build that runs two 80s instead of a single 104 and it seems to be much more responsive on both fuels with less of a difference between them on the twin set up.