trying to research which route I am going to go for my 66 chevelle. What were your deciding factors in deciding? Cost, power, ease of installation?

 

While the LSA supercharger packages well and looks very neat and tidy.... a well built turbo setup would destroy it if you are looking for overall power. Those superchargers also suffer from tremendous heat soak whereas a turbo could be hot lapped with minimal power loss.

You have a huge engine bay..... so it would easily swallow up a turbo or two! Here is my '69 Chevelle GTS76 (1200hp) turbo'd alum 5.3 with T56 Magnum, 3.25 gear'd 35 spline Wavetrac Ford 9" with big brakes/road race suspension, Holley Dominator, a/c, p/s and other upgrades. It should cruise nicely and it will be tuned with boost by gear/time so I can actually use the power instead of making a smoke show. I can also adjust boost from in the car without ever popping the hood. I'm shooting for 25mpg freeway, 900rwhp, 9's in the 1/4, with big brakes/road race suspension all while enjoying the a/c and heated/cooled Recaro CTSv seats.

build thread:
http://lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=52976

With a supercharger once you install the pulley ratios... you are pretty much locked in. Higher boost on those superchargers also potentially will suffer from belt slip. Superchargers like shorter gearing (3.73/4.10) and turbos like longer gearing to load them up better (3.08/3.25-3.42)

You can have a 1000rwhp+ turbo setup and have it drive pretty much like a kitten plus get good gas mileage. That isn't going to happen on a big HP supercharger combo.

 

Ohhh nooo.... not again!

 

Slowly breaks out the popcorn...

 

To be frank, you can't be trying too hard with your research efforts. This topic has been beat to death 8,765,436 times. Listen, It's simple..... if you want to go fast.... turbo is king. The End....

 

Thanks for the comments. Right now my frame is on one side of the garage an the body on the other. The frame has a full ridetech LVL 2 coilover suspension and a ford 9 rear. I am looking for something fun to cruise in. I do plan on running A/C with whatever I go with as I can't stand a sweaty ***.

 

Well I guess it can be beat to death 8,765,437 times now. Trying to get first hand accounts of why people chose the route they did. No where in my first post did I say I want the most power or to go fast. But thank you for responding.

 

Surprised nobody asked..... But what do you intend to use the car for?
I've driven both and yes the turbo will make more power but that's not the only deciding factor. They both have their pluses and minuses.
My daily driver right now is a 2000 S10 with LSA supercharged stock 6.0 with LS9 cam (e85) and TR6060 6-speed 3.42 rear. Tires are 325/30/19 Nitto's.
It's setup for handling rather than going in a straight line, It's very drivable makes enough power that I can't use all that I have in 1st or 2nd and will still want to break loose when shifting into 3rd at nearly 90mph. I'm running the stock pulley at 10lbs, and can make a pulley swap to 13-15lbs. When I was building the truck I planned on starting on the stock pulleys and do some tuning then add more boost later, I already have the pulleys but don't see the need considering I already make more power than the truck can handle without a drag radial or slicks.
I think the LSA supercharger is a better fit with a manual trans on the street, It's literally instant boost without the slightest hint of lag so it's instant power with every shift and tons of low end torque.

I drove a few turbo cars before this and they are fun and can make more power but more power isn't always the deciding factor.

I drive my truck in 90+ degree weather and heat soak has never been an issue with a good air to water intercooler and 3gal bed mounted reservoir.
Edit: I'm not knocking a turbo(s), I could make more peak power for sure but I'm more than happy with my supercharger for what it is.

 

trying to research which route I am going to go for my 66 chevelle. What were your deciding factors in deciding? Cost, power, ease of installation?


No but you did mention power as being a possible criteria so his assumption is reasonable that if it were one of your concerns that you would want to maximize and not minimize power. Another indication that you have not done much research is that you have not mentioned which transmission you are using.

 

Why anyone else chose is irrelevant.

Why not state what you want, what you use it for, what your hopes or goals are, what your driving style is etc etc etc ?

 

This was exactly what I was hoping to hear. First hand account from someone who ran both setups. Thanks for the comments.


Im sorry I forgot to mention which trans I am running, I wasn't aware by not mentioning it that it meant I didn't research it. The car will be running a t56 in it. yes I know manual is not the best option for a turbo car as it can't hold boost well, but I have always loved using the third pedal. The 4l80e would be the smart choice with a turbo, but its just not an option with me, plenty of people out there with a manual and turbo paired together.

I didn't think it was irrelevant to ask what their deciding factor was. I love hearing why people went one route or the other. They may bring up a very valid point that I never thought of. Thats the reason I am asking. I have done research on this matter, but I feel as if you can never do too much.

The car is going to be used around town, I am a spirited driver. It may see that 1/4 mile once a year and possibly an auto x twice a year depending on how I like it. My goals are for the car to give that **** eating grin when I step on the gas. It something for my boys and I to work on and then cruise around town.

Im sorry if people got upset with the question I asked, but I honestly feel hearing from people first hand about their experience really can bring new viewpoints and lead me to a better decision.

 

Very cool. I have never say the A/C mounted next to the alternator like that before. Is that a custom bracket you made for it? Most I have seen have been either tucked away down by the crossmember with a notch in the crossmember, or just to the right of the intake up top.

 

not sure why people get so butthurt about seeing these threads. I know the question has been asked many times in many different ways with many different twists as to what particular info the O/P is looking for, but I never get tired of reading them. I tend to see different opinions each time and sometimes even learn something new.

We all know that a turbo, PSI per PSI (or CFM per CFM) will make more peak power. I think that can be established as a fact.

That doesn't necessarily mean that the turbo car will always win the race though. I've seen pretty much stock cars with bolt on power adders race where the whipple 'charged car beat the turbo car. It made efficient use of the power, got off the line harder, put distance on the turbo car and the turbo car just wasn't able to make the difference up before the 1/4 mile mark. There is something to be said about having instant, almost off-idle torque, even in a roll-race, IF you can effectively put it to the ground.

One thing I'd love to hear about is how turbos and whipple/eaton/magnachargers compare on the road course. I would THINK that the blower would provide better throttle response coming out of turns and quicker power to really pull on short straightaways but I have no first hand experience with this.


Some turbo guys claim these roots style blowers have massive heat soak issues. Of course, there are a lot of blown guys here making huge power who claim to not have any and I have also heard from many turbo guys that excessive under hood temps of the turbos can wreak havoc on engine bay electronics and wiring on daily drivers. I'd imagine the blower problem could be solved with a very good blower cooling system and the turbo problem can be solved with turbo blankets and a lot of header wrap?

I've never owned a turbo car but I have worked on them. The one thing I do like about roots blowers is the simplicity. It's about as simple as it gets, you don't even have to worry about bracket flex like you would with a centrifugal blower. Just a blower, coolant pump/heat exchanger and a bypass valve. No plumbing to fab, clamps to loosen, waste gates or boost controllers to malfunction, oil lines to run/leak. No need for turbo timers. I also like the idea of self contained oiling. I really want to build a turbo car at some point, but I think I will save it for something more track oriented where I can have a big open engine bay, no accessories to clear, altered radiator support for more room etc... I may be wrong on this, but for a street car being driven almost daily I just see the blower as being less maintenance/potential problems.

The turbos may get the edge in drivability with the benefits of being able to adjust boot on the fly, but I disagree with anyone saying that blown cars can't be street friendly with big power levels. Just look at a Hellcat or several other factory roots blown cars making big power. They drive like Corollas and can withstand the abuse that a factory production car has to put up with. There are plenty of Whipple 2.9 blown, magna charged or Eaton blown guys making over 800hp at the crank that daily drive their cars through 90 degree heat, city driving etc.. and don't have any issues.
I would say if you have a heavy foot and tend to get into it a lot, the turbo will save you some engine life by dialing the boost back on the street, but if you are an all or nothing kind of guy like me, the blower should work fine. With all the blown cars I have had, I drove them like an old lady 90% of the time and just rip on them that 10% when I feel the need to. If you are an aggressive driver racing around at 3/4 throttle everywhere, the turbos might be a better choice (or you could just swap blower pulleys for the street where you don't need 800+hp to have fun).

 

The problem is asking a vague open ended question...but giving no detail about what they hope to achieve from any setup. But yes there is also the fact it has been asked and answered so many times.

But if they gave details about what they wanted etc...then it would be so much easier to get a direct answer.

From the brief description he has given, about a big grin when stepping on the gas...but still no mention of power goals etc etc then probably an LSA or similar valley mounted blower would be best.
As nothing else will give that instant torque hit as soon as he touches the accelerator. He hasnt really mentioned any other specific goals though ( or indeed budget )

No yes of course turbos can also give a huge torque hit....but a little time after hitting the gas...so it depends how specific that statement was, and indeed again power goals as to what size turbo or turbos might suit best for any goals.

Plus some might like the soundtrack that comes with a blower...some will like the more sedate noise from a turbo setup. Again all a personal choice.

 

Auto x 6 speed..... positive displacement blower all the way.

 

My a/c is actually mounted below the turbo using a Holley high mount bracket.
That pump next to the alternator is a GZ Motorsports vacuum pump. Helps the pistons rings seal, prevents both crank seals from leaking (no more over pressurized crankcase), and makes more power (25-40rwhp in a 1000rwhp+ setup) from all of the above. IMO if you can fit them.... they should be used on all forced induction setups... unless you are on a tight budget.

If you replace the rag joint style factory steering shaft with a u-joint style you will gain a bunch of clearance. I'm running truck manifolds that were modified. For my HP needs they will work fine.

Drive a CTSv or Hellcat 50 miles to the drag strip.... and see how long they wait with bags of ice trying cool everything down. With a turbo car I can tech.... and pretty much get in line ready to roll. Boost by gear makes 1000rwhp actually usable and totally streetable. In a 4000lb car maybe the roots supercharger has the edge out of the hole.... but a properly sized turbo(s) should take the win light up top as you can ramp in more boost based upon traction/track conditions.

My buddy had a F1R supercharger AND a 200hp shot of nitrous on a 383 LT1 in a little Datsun 240Z. He thought it was fast.... until we talked him into a big single turbo. Well after putting in a 91mm turbo (he also runs a T56 Magnum) it simply rips. He was blown away how much more driveable it was and also increase in power. $2/gal e85

Aside from 1st gear there isn't much boost lag at all:

Here is actually efficiently using around 1200rwhp (5th gear) on a dusty poorly prepped runway with only a 275/50/15 M/T ET STreet Drag Radial. I don't think the fine tuning is possible running a roots style blower. We are slowly increasing in boost in each gear and once in gear ramping it in by time to not overwhelm the tires. 1st gear is only running about 8psi, 4th runs 16-18 and 5th gear 20-22psi. It makes 1060rwhp on 14psi.

 

Those videos are great. Nice builds. can you post a pic of how you have your turbo and A/C setup?

As of now I don't even have an LS engine, I have a 454 big block torn apart sitting in the garage. But since I went with the ford 9", full ridetech lvl 2 coilover suspension, and Baer 14" brakes, I felt the smart way to go would be with an LS engine. I would like to have around 600rwhp. I know I don't need that type of power for around town, but if I am building the car, I might as well do it the way I want.

Cost wise, I'm not sure what would cost more, the LSA build or the Turbo. I know the turbo will require more fabrication, which I am willing to do. But I did like the straight forward setup with the roots type blower.

With a turbo, would you notice the lag as much on a 6.0 versus the 5.3?

Also, thank you for the heads up on the rear gear. I didn't even think of running a lower rear gear with a turbo setup.

 

If you did a 7875 on a 6.0 there will be no "lag" my turbo hits like a light switch and will build 10psi on the foot brake in the mud lol

 

You run a higher gear with a turbo because you can. Notice he runs lower boost in first gear because of traction issues. If he ran a 4.10 gear he would probably run out of gear at top end and would have to lower the boost in first gear which would not make sense.

 

I could see where running gas and the stock intercooler system could be an issue, Positive displacement blowers do make more heat obviously but it's not something that can't be addressed.
I don't have heat issues but I'm running E85 and larger intercooler and remote reservoir. I need to fill it with ice just to see what it does for my AITs, I could see it dropping them a good 30-40 degree's over what I normally see. At least dodge addressed that issue in the Demon.

I haven't plumbed my AC yet and have given some thought to trying a home built setup that would use the AC system to cool the reservoir.
It would use the setup found any many SUVs that splits the AC system front and rear. I can run an evaporator inside my water reservoir and still keep the interior cool.
With a setup like that I would have approximately 4 gallons of cold water ready at all times. I confident I can fab it up and make it work but just not sure I want to spend the time to do it when I use the truck as a daily driver only.

That type of supercharger "F1R" is just a belt driver turbo for the most parts and doesn't build boost the way a roots/screw blower does. Nothing wrong with them but I would go turbo before I used one.