AZD

AZD

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Its not that....the street radial (non drag tire) is hard.....isn't designed to bite the ground. Plus at a 1/4 mile track the pavement is prepped and sometimes sprayed all over the starting pad with VHT (GLUE)....lol Complete and total cheating......but thats what drag guys do. They all have a completely fake car when its on the street......because you will never, ever, hook on the street like you do at the track.

Hahahaha.....but yes, I guess if you loaded a car up with weight in the rear, it would pull the tires easy....LOL

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Its already available. There are 4-5 known Harrop 2650's in the USA.

I am talking to two of them directly. One has made 800 RWHP on 14psi but is still working out some other problems. The other is a local guy to me that hits the dyno next week.

This is what I'm waiting to see.....I want to see what he makes to thew wheels.

I have a complete Harrop 2650 SC'er kit waiting to ship from Tampa to me. But if it doesn't make well over 1,000 RWHP....forget it.

Here it is....very nice piece. Just hope it really performs as it should. Since they claim it flows 25% more than the TVS2300.
These guys claim roughly 1,000 RWHP at 14psi.........who knows.

This is why I'm saying to consider one of these types on SC'ers.....the top piece is ALL that you have. Thats it. You can pick it up and walk away with it. A turbo kit is 10 times more parts and 10 times more complex and takes 10 times the amount of time to install.



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AZD

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

I am no expert where I can tell you detailed differences in top end, drag racing, mid range.....Pros and Cons. I have enough on my plate with my job to become an expert like a lot of the guys here are.

I just like fast ****......When I flew a fighter jet in college for the first time....I said everything I own needs to be fast.....LOL

But if top end is what you're after....yes, the Harrop Pos Dis SC'er will be good on top end. The new SC'ed Vette uses one and it sails past 200mph. A little modding and it'll probably be doing 220-230mph......

HP is what gets you top end....doesn't matter how that HP is made.

The reason I like a Pos Dis SC'er. I have a lot of friends with turbo cars in South Florida. From 800 RWHP to 1,500 RWHP. Even my friends TT Heffner Viper has issues that I hate. Cruising at 50-60mph if a car comes along side and wants to race and he rolls into the throttle, it doesn't just go. It builds boost, not long, but it does have to spool the turbos to really start hauling ***. If you're at a stop light and you nail it, same ****.....it goes immediately, but then a few seconds later he has to work the pedal or the boost comes in hard and the tires just spin. That is true with all turbo cars. There is no smooth power if you smack the throttle to WOT.......

Pos Dis SC'er. Its just like a Normally Aspirated engine. Raw, instant, on tap power/torque. If you are cruising at 50-60 mph and you go WOT.....it goes instantaneously.....smooth power that you don't need to work the pedal with. Turbo cars....like when all my friends go roll racing. They MUST brake boost the engine so at 50-60mph they are building boost by holding the E-Brake and pushing the gas pedal.....then the race starts. If they don;t do that, and a Pos Dis powered car is next to them with the identical RWHP and identical car......both hit the throttle together.....its GOODBYE for the Pos Dis car......turbo guy will be left behind. And nobody can argue that. Same with 1/4 mile racing.....smack the throttle from a stop without building boost and its a dog off the line. Pos Dis car......GOODBYE, it takes off immediately.

I know one guy only where I live in Lauderdale with a Pos Dis car. Its a new Mustang, 850 RWHP. When you go driving it its like driving a normal minivan. Until you want to drive it hard.....its smooth as hell power, always there instantly, if he's in and out of turns he doesn;t have to worry about boost dropping off and then coming in hard when he's in a turn....the power is 100% manageable.....turbo.....NOPE. The boost has to be kept up all the time or it can come in when you're not expecting it too and you can lose the rear end.

Turbo guys should agree to all this...its just the facts.

My boss has a new McClaren. Its twin turbo 620 HP. Its a pig down low. I drove it a couple weeks ago and was ripping through turns and when you let off the gas to go into a turn its a pig again coming out. Now I'm sure when people get really used to it they can downshift at the perfect times and keep that boost UP...so that doesn't happen as much, but screw that. I want instant and smooth power any time, anywhere......so I know exactly what to expect.

Here's what a badass STOCK Pos Dis SC'ed Vette down to the tires.......can do to a MORE powerful, LIGHTER, ALL-WHEEL drive turbo Lambo...with a professional test driver that works for Lambo. No better Lambo driver anywhere.
The Vette is just wanting to eat its ***......Hilarious......with a non-professional driver.

I notice the instant power in and out of the turns.......this is a power race.

He with the most power...wins. Put some road race tires on that Vette and it'll kill that Lambo.

You can plainly see the Vette almost hitting the Lambo......breaking and seeing the nose diving all the time. Almost flew passed it at one point. And through the turns the Vette can still hammer the throttle and it can pass the other car if it wanted to.
ALSO....and important thing to realize.....in a demo like like this.....the guy in the back CANNOT go all out. He MUST retrain himself. He is the one that has to worry about hitting the car in front.....so he is absolutely 100% holding back and being the cautious one...that definitely affects his ability......otherwise switch places and that Vette would steadily pull away from that Lambo.

Lambo might have a faster top end on a straightaway.....but they are built for top end. Vette was built to go get groceries, Sunday drive, run 10 second 1/4 mile times at the track, still have a great top end......and occasionally go make a $450,000 exotic car look SILLY......

----And I'm sure some will say...why are you posting a road race video when we are talking about SC'ers/Turbos. If they understand why the vette did so well, they will say its because of that raw SC'er power. There's other videos where professional race car drivers explain how the raw instant power of the Vette is what makes it better than exotic cars that cost 3-4 times as much.......and the brakes of course......


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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

AZD,

And of course a turbo car can be set up to have instant acceleration, on tap quick power. But these are usually twin turbo professionally built race cars. You're talking BIG MONEY that nobody here can afford. two different sized turbos are also done on cars so they compliment each other and pick up where the other one does not perform optimally. But together....they cover more of the spectrum so the power is more smooth and manageable. But again....nobody does that **** here....its one big *** single turbo or two same sized turbos.

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AZD

Damn that makes me want to get a positive displacement charger now because it sounds like you can have more fun with the car just cruising or doing fishtails, than later go up on a stoplight and thrash any car on the road lol. Do pro chargers feel similar to a displacement charger when turning and just going around not maxing the power, or do they have to build power like turbos? Sounds like positive displacement would make the car the most fun to drive, and in the end a 600-650hp car will probably kill any car on the highway I can find anyway, no matter if its a turbo or a type of charger. I also was reading that people say the c7 is the best sport car to drive, and if I can have my car feel similar to that without the price tag, I might have to give up max top speed for overall driveability. The only other concerns that I have with postive displacment is that they are reliable in any conditions like snow, and can you drive them around for a while and not have to stop to cool down. Say I slam the gas on the highway, can I still keep driving after doing that a few times, or will I have to get off for it to cool down? Other than that the more I look, the less I like turbos even though there faster for a daily driver because they are mostly just straight line speed.

If I was gonna build a 1500hp car for the strip I would go turbo, but its a dd so I might go postive displacment if I can get it cheap enough compare to something like a pro.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

There is so much bias and crap in LS6427 posts the OP should really take it with a grain of salt. He's obviously never been in a properly designed and setup centrigual OR turbo car and has built neither. Hes rode in "friends" cars who have more money than sense.

If PD blowers were the wave of the future and the best form of boost....then why would many of the 03-04 cobra guys change a factory PD blower car to turbo instead of just swapping to a large PD blower? They simply aren't as efficient as a turbo and take power to turn. And melting tires instantly on the street is pretty weak when a turbo or centrifugal blower guy who can control the boost proceeds to drive away from you.

AZD

Honestly idk what to choose, I think I might just go with the cheapest pound for pound to 650hp, the more I look the harder it is to choose. I might try to go find some raw data which might be the only thing that can help me choose which one to buy without actually driving all 3 types.

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

How are you and your Dad's fab skills?

Game ova

Drive a 6-700whp turbo car and you won't want anything else. We keep talking about horsepower, but let's not forget torque. Which in that case turbo wins handily.

AZD

I just starting to get into cars like 2months ago, but my dad has rebuilt engines and done engine swaps many of times. He told me that he thinks I should get a pro charger because they can get a lot of power on top and their easy to install. I also still have to talk to the guy who can do custom turbo kits and see his pricing.

AZD

How much more torque are we talking over both superchargers?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

If he can weld and you're willing to do the work fab up a turbo kit. Cold side is a piece of cake to fab. Hot side is just patience. It's the cheapest route assuming you buy reasonably priced stuff and don't buy a $1500 turbo. If you want to bolt a kit on in a day or weekend, procharger is pretty easy. No cutting the cowl or dropping the motor and spacing the k member.

AZD

Yeah he can weld but he doesn't have a lot of time because he works a lot, but if its the cheapest I could just wait till summer and have it built over a few weeks span when I have no school. Also how much would it be if I got a used name brand turbo because I heard stories of china ones always end up being getting what you payed for by breaking down. How much would the cheaper setup your thinking would cost over a 5-7k procharger?

ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

China stuff has come a long way. People are getting solid new turbos for 500 bucks just go with a brand people know of like One or search for some of the other names. If you have your own kit you can literally do a turbo for a couple Grand. For Prochargers, used kits pop up pretty regularly in the 2500-4000 range. Those blowers typically last 50k to 150k miles. My kit I bought used and has been great.

LS6427

iTrader: (2)

Turbo packages are badass too.....they just have their issues. From what I've been told by Bob at Brute Speed......YES, the Procharger does have to spool up just like a turbo, but its way faster than a turbo. Much more responsive.

And like I said, I have a complete single turbo kit......but now I'm liking the idea of a Pos Dis SC'er. I have yet to find a single negative about them....and only ALL positives.

And you can bet your *** that if Pos Dis SC'ers could make 1,200 RWHP and ift under our cowls.....almost....I say almost everyone would get them over the turbo set up because of the AMAZING EASE of install and much less complexity and all the over-heat issues. And who cares about the very few that say they have no cooling issues.....most do. Thats why there's countless threads on here about HOW THE HELL do I choose a bigger radiator, how do I keep my A/C condenser, how do I get bigger fans, how did you guys cut into your frame to fit the bigger radiator....... SC'ers eliminate that issue, ESPECIALLY a Pos Dis SC'er.

You're not gonna have to pull over to cool down either set up...turbo or SC'er....unless its set up horribly and something is wrong. They both do road racing in cars....and keep running fine.

You should be able to run a car hard 20 times and be just fine.

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LS6427

iTrader: (2)

So people who buy set ups from Lingenfelter and Heffner are senseless....LOL...they have the best **** money can buy.

You haven't been listening.......Pos Dis SC'ers cannot make the same power levels as turbos. The guys that are swapping their factory...TINY...Pos Dis Sc'ers for turbos is because they want a LOT of RWHP. And there are thousands of people out there that just wanted a little more power....thats why Kenne Bell and Whipple have a whole line of different sized Pos Dis SC'ers just for them.
FITMENT....another issue. Pos Dis SC'ers are tall and don't fit into most factory engine bays. Also, they have REAR air feeds...so they are meant for the fabricators and dedicated drag cars.

I thought you knew all this.....

GM is pretty stupid for putting a Pos Dis SC'er on the Vette...I guess. A car 638 HP car that gets almost 30mpg on the highway...... Yea, thats real inefficient. Those morons at GM......lol

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ddnspider

iTrader: (26)

LPE makes very nice stuff. Heffner is for people with more money than sense. Yes, agreed. You want to spend thousand of dollars on a simple cam swap or motor.....there you go. They treat their parts and labor like it's gold. Heffner especially is known to be obnoxiously overpriced.

Rear air feed means drag car? Lol.... hilarious.

Don't forget that if GM put a turbo on instead of a PD....it would have gotten better gas mileage Nobody cares about what GM or Ford did. It's not apples to apples. They have sourcing and finance constraints, reliability and MTBF and emissions to meet. So stop acting like the only reason they chose a PD was performance. PACKAGING likely dictated why they did what they did. Plenty of turbo OEM sports and supercars so that whole argument is weak. You were ALL about pumping turbos when you were "going" turbo....now you're ALL about PD blowers cause you're going that route. At least be realistic and realize the plus and minus of both.