proper shipping methods need help
05-03-2018, 10:54 AM
#21
With all respect, it does matter when trying to get a refund and proving to a credit company that the item may have been damaged.
"What took place when it showed up damaged?"
Denied the shipment, took pics contacted seller.
"I understand why the original post was created but did you contact the vendor first before making the original post? Things like this suck bad for sure but I can tell you you wouldn’t believe the stuff we get in that’s damaged and attempted to be made right by the carrier"
Yes, and I am not satisfied with options I was given. Been trying to work with the vendor.
" Are you not working with the vendor or just making post after post on this? Give them a chance to make it right. They do have a good reputation for making things right w people."
I am working with them, was hoping to help get the attention of the owner as seen in other posts.
" Mod delete your other thread ? "
scrubbed it and moved it
"Not sure what all the fuss is about. I see items worth millions on a daily basis packaged way worse than the photos in your other thread. Unless the motor physically sustained damage I'd just take note and move on"
Was ok with the first price, not ok with same price for smashed up re-inspected. We are talking about something costs slightly less than 5 figures.
Still need some help with a formal opinion on letterhead
"What took place when it showed up damaged?"
Denied the shipment, took pics contacted seller.
"I understand why the original post was created but did you contact the vendor first before making the original post? Things like this suck bad for sure but I can tell you you wouldn’t believe the stuff we get in that’s damaged and attempted to be made right by the carrier"
Yes, and I am not satisfied with options I was given. Been trying to work with the vendor.
" Are you not working with the vendor or just making post after post on this? Give them a chance to make it right. They do have a good reputation for making things right w people."
I am working with them, was hoping to help get the attention of the owner as seen in other posts.
" Mod delete your other thread ? "
scrubbed it and moved it
"Not sure what all the fuss is about. I see items worth millions on a daily basis packaged way worse than the photos in your other thread. Unless the motor physically sustained damage I'd just take note and move on"
Was ok with the first price, not ok with same price for smashed up re-inspected. We are talking about something costs slightly less than 5 figures.
Still need some help with a formal opinion on letterhead
Just because there is clear evidence better packaging might in most cases reduce damage and potential claims, you still can't force the shipper to adopt those standards in the future. In a lot of cases, it's simply the shipper's ignorance about how to package their product. The carrier's sales department serving the shipper, if they are doing their job, should be working with the shipper on packaging and for obvious reasons - the shipper, the carrier, and the consignee want their goods to arrive on time and not damaged.
As for the carrier, if an item isn't packaged properly the carrier can refuse to haul it. Problem is, that most carriers don't, leaving the consignee with damaged goods on delivery.
I worked for two major LTL carriers for nearly 20 years in operations. They will try to minimize their responsibility even though a shipment was picked up undamaged but is delivered with the packaging damaged and the contents either visibly damaged an/or perhaps have concealed damage.
The crate in question was obviously dropped or rolled on it's side breaking the crate open. Who know if it rolled out on the dock or the floor of the trainer. To make delivery it appears that the carrier wrapped shrink wrap around the crate to hold it together.
IMO, it's not that the crate arrived damaged but whether the contents are visibly damaged or otherwise - there might be concealed damage to the engine.
Can you drop an engine 3 or four feet unto a concrete floor and not crack the block? Can you pick an engine up if it's laying on the dock with the blades of a forklift and not damage the bottom end? Or the top end? Is it good to have an engine spilled out of it crate sliding to and fro inside of a trailer traveling at speeds up to 45 mph in city traffic because it wasn't properly blocked in and stabilized?
We simply don't know what happened at the carrier's premises - we can speculate all day. But take my word for it, I've seen it all. Some dock workers and delivery drivers do stupid things to their customers freight.
What the shipper should do is replace the engine and move on. The shipper in the future should ship the engine on a cradle and if that means increasing the price by $45 then so be it. As for stapling a plywood crate together with staples - they should know better.
As for possible concealed damage to the engine, the shipper should disassemble and inspect it. That's simply the cost of doing GOOD business. It's not the responsibility of the customer to accept anything less by trying to force the customer to accept something on the chance that there isn't any concealed damage.
As for me, I am in the market for a short block, but if this is the way the shipper handles claims or ships their engines, I will not be calling to make an order.
Note: I think you need to make clear to the CC that you don't want to have to pay for something that might have possible concealed damage. Be aware that you are probably speaking to someone at the CC that doesn't know "DIDDLY" about engines.
Same goes for the claims processor at the carrier.
05-03-2018, 11:20 AM
#22
If the clearnances were to be changed, I would wager heavily on there being some type of visible evidence, these motors are not made out of paper machet. I can see being a bit irritated by the way it arrived, but not sure if it's enough to warrant all drama of getting a refund....shipping it back and all that jazz. Unwrap it, check it out, if it checks out... install it. But then again, if one is paying to have a motor built, they may not know what to look for.... or what they are looking at. So I dunno, maybe he is doing the right thing. (No shade towards OP btw)
05-03-2018, 11:28 AM
#23
dlands hit it. You paid thousands of dollars for something, you would assume shipping is the easy part and have no idea what damage may or may not have occurred. I'm not a big fan of the response either so far. "Sorry you had a problem with the UPS. We ship XYZ motors and this doesnt happen." A simple, "That is NOT how it left our facility. We will work with you and the shipper/carrier ASAP to resolve this" would have de-escalated everything instead of immediately getting defensive.
05-03-2018, 11:41 AM
#24
Exactly.
05-03-2018, 11:46 AM
#25
dlands hit it. You paid thousands of dollars for something, you would assume shipping is the easy part and have no idea what damage may or may not have occurred. I'm not a big fan of the response either so far. "Sorry you had a problem with the UPS. We ship XYZ motors and this doesnt happen." A simple, "That is NOT how it left our facility. We will work with you and the shipper/carrier ASAP to resolve this" would have de-escalated everything instead of immediately getting defensive.
05-03-2018, 01:52 PM
#28
TECH Regular
I'll give u 6k for the motor u bought right UNSEEN I have dropped a motor before with no crate and I dropped my truck on my motor never had a problem I do u understand u spent a lot of money for s motor and I am.sorry it arrived the way it did but it doesn't seem to have visible damage so far bases off your comments about it so hit me up I know it's not full price but it is a engine that has been dropped
05-03-2018, 02:00 PM
#29
Makes no sense. How can you tell if anything internal to the motor was damaged? Part of product design that I deal with is mechanical shock. You can drop a crate and all the paneling looks fine exterior wise, but the inside suffered violent mechanical shock without you knowing it unless you tear it apart.
I doubt a little jostling during shipping is going to do any internal damage.
05-03-2018, 02:02 PM
#30
I'll give u 6k for the motor u bought right UNSEEN I have dropped a motor before with no crate and I dropped my truck on my motor never had a problem I do u understand u spent a lot of money for s motor and I am.sorry it arrived the way it did but it doesn't seem to have visible damage so far bases off your comments about it so hit me up I know it's not full price but it is a engine that has been dropped
05-03-2018, 02:31 PM
#31
Saying this engine was dropped from 3' is a serious stretch, If you have ever used a forklift then you'd know that would put that crate right in your view so you keep pallets low if you can see over them. They rarely pick pallets up any higher than need to put them on the truck...Why....because any higher the mast of forklift will catch on the overhead door or the top of the trailer. The crate does not look like it was dropped and if the engine was inspected the damage would be obvious....not hidden lol.
From the other post
"Also happy to fix any issues that have occurred due to the shipping. We do ask that no customer ever accept any products damaged in shipping to ensure that they do not have to deal with any issues."
OP reply is "I am not interested in a damaged, inspected and returned engine. Independent of how many engines have been shipped what arrived on my dock was not packaged correctly."
So even though the OP signed for it when he shouldn't have they are still more than willing to inspect the engine. OP doesn't want it inspected but still hasn't said if there is any visible damage. And the OP assumes the crate he received wasn't properly built when he doesn't know what or how the crate was built/ shipped in the beginning. It probably was supported inside the crate, It may have been wood blocks, It could have had banding around the inside/outside the crate but the fact is the crate was damaged at some point and who knows what the shipper did with it after they received it.... I certainly would not have accepted it without inspecting it first.
As far as getting information from other shippers on how they ship makes no difference in this case, Besides being a waste of time and money to take it to court there is the issue of the buyer accepting the product when it was delivered would make winning a crap shoot. The buyer could possibly be out thousands more.
They offered to make it right and OP isn't happy with that...don't know what else there is to say.
From the other post
"Also happy to fix any issues that have occurred due to the shipping. We do ask that no customer ever accept any products damaged in shipping to ensure that they do not have to deal with any issues."
OP reply is "I am not interested in a damaged, inspected and returned engine. Independent of how many engines have been shipped what arrived on my dock was not packaged correctly."
So even though the OP signed for it when he shouldn't have they are still more than willing to inspect the engine. OP doesn't want it inspected but still hasn't said if there is any visible damage. And the OP assumes the crate he received wasn't properly built when he doesn't know what or how the crate was built/ shipped in the beginning. It probably was supported inside the crate, It may have been wood blocks, It could have had banding around the inside/outside the crate but the fact is the crate was damaged at some point and who knows what the shipper did with it after they received it.... I certainly would not have accepted it without inspecting it first.
As far as getting information from other shippers on how they ship makes no difference in this case, Besides being a waste of time and money to take it to court there is the issue of the buyer accepting the product when it was delivered would make winning a crap shoot. The buyer could possibly be out thousands more.
They offered to make it right and OP isn't happy with that...don't know what else there is to say.
05-03-2018, 02:52 PM
#32
Saying this engine was dropped from 3' is a serious stretch, If you have ever used a forklift then you'd know that would put that crate right in your view so you keep pallets low if you can see over them. They rarely pick pallets up any higher than need to put them on the truck...Why....because any higher the mast of forklift will catch on the overhead door or the top of the trailer. The crate does not look like it was dropped and if the engine was inspected the damage would be obvious....not hidden lol.
From the other post
"Also happy to fix any issues that have occurred due to the shipping. We do ask that no customer ever accept any products damaged in shipping to ensure that they do not have to deal with any issues."
OP reply is "I am not interested in a damaged, inspected and returned engine. Independent of how many engines have been shipped what arrived on my dock was not packaged correctly."
So even though the OP signed for it when he shouldn't have they are still more than willing to inspect the engine. OP doesn't want it inspected but still hasn't said if there is any visible damage. And the OP assumes the crate he received wasn't properly built when he doesn't know what or how the crate was built/ shipped in the beginning. It probably was supported inside the crate, It may have been wood blocks, It could have had banding around the inside/outside the crate but the fact is the crate was damaged at some point and who knows what the shipper did with it after they received it.... I certainly would not have accepted it without inspecting it first.
As far as getting information from other shippers on how they ship makes no difference in this case, Besides being a waste of time and money to take it to court there is the issue of the buyer accepting the product when it was delivered would make winning a crap shoot. The buyer could possibly be out thousands more.
They offered to make it right and OP isn't happy with that...don't know what else there is to say.
From the other post
"Also happy to fix any issues that have occurred due to the shipping. We do ask that no customer ever accept any products damaged in shipping to ensure that they do not have to deal with any issues."
OP reply is "I am not interested in a damaged, inspected and returned engine. Independent of how many engines have been shipped what arrived on my dock was not packaged correctly."
So even though the OP signed for it when he shouldn't have they are still more than willing to inspect the engine. OP doesn't want it inspected but still hasn't said if there is any visible damage. And the OP assumes the crate he received wasn't properly built when he doesn't know what or how the crate was built/ shipped in the beginning. It probably was supported inside the crate, It may have been wood blocks, It could have had banding around the inside/outside the crate but the fact is the crate was damaged at some point and who knows what the shipper did with it after they received it.... I certainly would not have accepted it without inspecting it first.
As far as getting information from other shippers on how they ship makes no difference in this case, Besides being a waste of time and money to take it to court there is the issue of the buyer accepting the product when it was delivered would make winning a crap shoot. The buyer could possibly be out thousands more.
They offered to make it right and OP isn't happy with that...don't know what else there is to say.
05-03-2018, 05:21 PM
#34
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
So the OP signed and accepted the delivery of a crate that was obviously dropped? Thompson's was still willing to take a look at the motor/inspect and fix it if they found any issues? I've been looking at short blocks on their website prior to this and I believe they offer a warranty. If it was me and there wasn't any visible damage to the motor I'd ask them if they would still honor the warranty knowing it was dropped. If they will then I'd go ahead and run it. If they will not honor the warranty knowing it was dropped then take them up on the offer to inspect it if they will honor the warranty after inspecting it.
05-03-2018, 06:28 PM
#35
If was dropped from any height it would have suffered some kind of external damage and that crate wouldn't have just one side loose. What is more likely is that it was hit with a fork when they were putting the next pallet on the trailer. They try to put them as close as possible to each other to keep them from moving around. If the forklift driver misjudged how far his for was sticking out past the pallet he was bring in he could easily hit the crate and knock the side loose. delivered freight for a time and also worked on the docks...it happens regularly but doesn't always end up with damage. I've actually delivered engines to Napa that were only shrink wrapped and banded to a wood pallet, No side or top for protection.
05-03-2018, 06:37 PM
#36
So the OP signed and accepted the delivery of a crate that was obviously dropped? Thompson's was still willing to take a look at the motor/inspect and fix it if they found any issues? I've been looking at short blocks on their website prior to this and I believe they offer a warranty. If it was me and there wasn't any visible damage to the motor I'd ask them if they would still honor the warranty knowing it was dropped. If they will then I'd go ahead and run it. If they will not honor the warranty knowing it was dropped then take them up on the offer to inspect it if they will honor the warranty after inspecting it.
Partial quote from post #9 below.
"What took place when it showed up damaged?"
Denied the shipment, took pics contacted seller.
If the delivery driver did his/her job correctly, a damage notation should have been written on the freight bill and signed by the consignee (the OP). The consignee gets to keep their copy + consignee took pictures. Each picture will have a time stamp (love technololgy today compared to when I was in the business).
Because the shipment was refused the driver returns it to the carrier for resolution by the carrier and the shipper. It is the responsibility of the carrier to contact the shipper because the shipment was refused.
As for stacking crated/wood boxed freight higher than three feet, carriers do it all the time and that means that crates and boxes get stacked over three high with regularity. We can speculate for eternity how the crate became damaged. But the reason or how is moot. It's the carrier's responsibility if the packaging or the contents become damaged while in the control of the carrier.
Here's a good read for the OP and the shipper. Read "Damages – Shock Recorders" It's about engines.
http://www.transportlaw.com/transportation-logistics/
FWIW
There are some items where the carrier only has to pay a percentage of the amount of the claim. Glassware is a good example because it breaks so easily. Household goods are another because you can't put a price on the 'sentimental value' of the item if damaged. The shipper should check what category (commodity) the engine falls under to determine the claim value of the commodity damaged.
05-03-2018, 07:56 PM
#37
Now if you're talking full load shipping that's different and common practice because the load is the same height front to back but not LTL freight.
05-03-2018, 08:14 PM
#38
According to post #9 the consignee denied (refused) the shipment and contacted the shipper.
Partial quote from post #9 below.
"What took place when it showed up damaged?"
Denied the shipment, took pics contacted seller.
If the delivery driver did his/her job correctly, a damage notation should have been written on the freight bill and signed by the consignee (the OP). The consignee gets to keep their copy + consignee took pictures. Each picture will have a time stamp (love technololgy today compared to when I was in the business).
Because the shipment was refused the driver returns it to the carrier for resolution by the carrier and the shipper. It is the responsibility of the carrier to contact the shipper because the shipment was refused.
Partial quote from post #9 below.
"What took place when it showed up damaged?"
Denied the shipment, took pics contacted seller.
If the delivery driver did his/her job correctly, a damage notation should have been written on the freight bill and signed by the consignee (the OP). The consignee gets to keep their copy + consignee took pictures. Each picture will have a time stamp (love technololgy today compared to when I was in the business).
Because the shipment was refused the driver returns it to the carrier for resolution by the carrier and the shipper. It is the responsibility of the carrier to contact the shipper because the shipment was refused.
05-04-2018, 03:58 AM
#39
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Yeah I missed where it was refused, That still doesn't really change a whole lot, The seller is offering to make it right and should be given a chance to do so, To blame the seller in this case still seems ridiculous to me. The crate was not destroyed in the pictures and the engine should be fine, The seller offered to make it right but the buyer seems set on not accepting anything other than a refund and bad mouthing the seller for something out of their control. The buyer assumes the seller doesn't know how to ship his product and I don't see that being the case at all, It's bad business to eat your profits when things go wrong...It's not like they are new at this.
05-04-2018, 06:40 AM
#40
Because when this was posted by the OP and they replied, they never stated that how the engine arrived at the buyer was NOT how it left their facility. They didn't show a picture of how it is normally packaged/shipped/etc. Stuff happens....everyone agrees. But if that is how they normally pack their engines, they'll lose a lot of business. Like I said earlier, everything could have gone way smoother had their response been better.