Best block for reliability for high HP?
Best block for reliability for high HP? I would like whatever motor I decide to go with be able to be reliable (not push water) at 1,000 RWHP. I would like to make a little more than that on the dyno but dial it back to between the 800-1,000 RWHP range for more regular use.
For a long time I had planned on going with a build LQ4 for this. But I am getting mixed info on if this will really be reliable at those levels or not before pushing water will be an issue. Let me also add that this would be for a single turbo setup, and I am not one that wants to spend time after each drive looking at a laptop for data or constantly tweaking things. I do realize at that power there will be things I will need to address and work with on a somewhat regular basis, but beyond that, putting gas in it, and changing the oil, I am looking for something that wont cause catastrophic failure. Can it be done with a well built LQ4? Or will I need to spend more $ and get an actual LSX block?
For a long time I had planned on going with a build LQ4 for this. But I am getting mixed info on if this will really be reliable at those levels or not before pushing water will be an issue. Let me also add that this would be for a single turbo setup, and I am not one that wants to spend time after each drive looking at a laptop for data or constantly tweaking things. I do realize at that power there will be things I will need to address and work with on a somewhat regular basis, but beyond that, putting gas in it, and changing the oil, I am looking for something that wont cause catastrophic failure. Can it be done with a well built LQ4? Or will I need to spend more $ and get an actual LSX block?
I honestly enjoy driving it more on the street than anything. That being said, I do like taking it to the track for fun maybe a half dozen times a year with slicks. But primary purpose will be on the street.
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From: Norn Iron
It's an open ended question....even more so without a budget in mind.
So "best" could be a block at $4-5k plus internals and heads etc etc
But would a basic LS2/3/A/9 block built correctly cover the job adequately ? yes it would.
Would some iron blocks built correctly do it...again yes, same with LSX.....There are just so many ways to achieve it. So what does your budget allow ? Do you want iron or alloy ? Do you want a specific engine size ? For road use I'd always say the larger engine will probably be much better to drive with.
So "best" could be a block at $4-5k plus internals and heads etc etc
But would a basic LS2/3/A/9 block built correctly cover the job adequately ? yes it would.
Would some iron blocks built correctly do it...again yes, same with LSX.....There are just so many ways to achieve it. So what does your budget allow ? Do you want iron or alloy ? Do you want a specific engine size ? For road use I'd always say the larger engine will probably be much better to drive with.
It's an open ended question....even more so without a budget in mind.
So "best" could be a block at $4-5k plus internals and heads etc etc
But would a basic LS2/3/A/9 block built correctly cover the job adequately ? yes it would.
Would some iron blocks built correctly do it...again yes, same with LSX.....There are just so many ways to achieve it. So what does your budget allow ? Do you want iron or alloy ? Do you want a specific engine size ? For road use I'd always say the larger engine will probably be much better to drive with.
So "best" could be a block at $4-5k plus internals and heads etc etc
But would a basic LS2/3/A/9 block built correctly cover the job adequately ? yes it would.
Would some iron blocks built correctly do it...again yes, same with LSX.....There are just so many ways to achieve it. So what does your budget allow ? Do you want iron or alloy ? Do you want a specific engine size ? For road use I'd always say the larger engine will probably be much better to drive with.
As far as the price goes, I'd rather find what I know will not give me issues for sure and not focus more on the price. No, that doesn't mean I want to drop $5,000 on the block alone. Obviously like the next guy I'd rather spend less if I have the chance to have a reliable motor without worrying about pushing water or doing damage to the block and not spending a fortune. I know guys that have pushed junkyard 5.3's to some amazing limits, but then again they are on their laptop after each drive and maybe in the motor frequently to tweak things to ensure the fine margin of error is never exceeded. Again, I'm not looking for something like that.
If I have the ability, I would rather run aluminum, not iron (but would run iron block if the price was a big difference). I would prefer bigger also, so I was thinking in the 6.0 range for displacement. But again am open to suggestions and welcome more info based upon experience.
Last edited by CALL911; Sep 10, 2018 at 06:41 AM.
Yes, however I have heard of guys pushing water with them at levels below what I want to attain. Could this be a setup error? The more bolts I can get in the heads I would think the better chance also I would have at keeping away from pushing water.
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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I'd go with something 6 bolt to ensure there was no issue with pushing water. Whether that means the block came with 6 bolts or you had it welded on after the fact is your choice.
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From: Norn Iron
So you are saying that you believe cylinder pressure won't be a factor for pushing water with any of those if "built correctly"? I have some sources telling me this also, but then others saying anything above the 900 ish RWHP level on a regular basis will not hold up no matter how it's built without an aftermarket block.
As far as the price goes, I'd rather find what I know will not give me issues for sure and not focus more on the price. No, that doesn't mean I want to drop $5,000 on the block alone. Obviously like the next guy I'd rather spend less if I have the chance to have a reliable motor without worrying about pushing water or doing damage to the block and not spending a fortune. I know guys that have pushed junkyard 5.3's to some amazing limits, but then again they are on their laptop after each drive and maybe in the motor frequently to tweak things to ensure the fine margin of error is never exceeded. Again, I'm not looking for something like that.
If I have the ability, I would rather run aluminum, not iron (but would run iron block if the price was a big difference). I would prefer bigger also, so I was thinking in the 6.0 range for displacement. But again am open to suggestions and welcome more info based upon experience.
As far as the price goes, I'd rather find what I know will not give me issues for sure and not focus more on the price. No, that doesn't mean I want to drop $5,000 on the block alone. Obviously like the next guy I'd rather spend less if I have the chance to have a reliable motor without worrying about pushing water or doing damage to the block and not spending a fortune. I know guys that have pushed junkyard 5.3's to some amazing limits, but then again they are on their laptop after each drive and maybe in the motor frequently to tweak things to ensure the fine margin of error is never exceeded. Again, I'm not looking for something like that.
If I have the ability, I would rather run aluminum, not iron (but would run iron block if the price was a big difference). I would prefer bigger also, so I was thinking in the 6.0 range for displacement. But again am open to suggestions and welcome more info based upon experience.
Pushing very high CR's unless the fuel permits is also higher risk
If you want the strongest OEM alloy block, go for the LS9, but it's a lot more expensive than the rest. However it does already come with steel main caps which are dowelled. It is already tapped for M12 head fasteners, a good step up from regular 11mm. It also has oil squirters, again a good thing to have and of course the base material the block is made from is stronger than all the rest.
User gnx7 is a big fan of the LS9 parts and makes a lot more than 1k.
I wouldnt even contemplate something someone has tried to add or convert to 6 bolt. And I really dont believe iron, 6 bolt or LSx is necessary for 1000hp, unless it's some sort of endurance racer, or lots of mile runs etc.
And even then..I'd still prefer the LS9.
Well over 1k, then yes other options might start to look better
I have never even heard of converting something to a 6 bolt before. Do you have experence or know someone who has successfully? What is there setup?
The highest cylinder pressures come from detonation, not power.
Pushing very high CR's unless the fuel permits is also higher risk
If you want the strongest OEM alloy block, go for the LS9, but it's a lot more expensive than the rest. However it does already come with steel main caps which are dowelled. It is already tapped for M12 head fasteners, a good step up from regular 11mm. It also has oil squirters, again a good thing to have and of course the base material the block is made from is stronger than all the rest.
User gnx7 is a big fan of the LS9 parts and makes a lot more than 1k.
I wouldnt even contemplate something someone has tried to add or convert to 6 bolt. And I really dont believe iron, 6 bolt or LSx is necessary for 1000hp, unless it's some sort of endurance racer, or lots of mile runs etc.
And even then..I'd still prefer the LS9.
Well over 1k, then yes other options might start to look better
Pushing very high CR's unless the fuel permits is also higher risk
If you want the strongest OEM alloy block, go for the LS9, but it's a lot more expensive than the rest. However it does already come with steel main caps which are dowelled. It is already tapped for M12 head fasteners, a good step up from regular 11mm. It also has oil squirters, again a good thing to have and of course the base material the block is made from is stronger than all the rest.
User gnx7 is a big fan of the LS9 parts and makes a lot more than 1k.
I wouldnt even contemplate something someone has tried to add or convert to 6 bolt. And I really dont believe iron, 6 bolt or LSx is necessary for 1000hp, unless it's some sort of endurance racer, or lots of mile runs etc.
And even then..I'd still prefer the LS9.
Well over 1k, then yes other options might start to look better
6-bolt heads I agree with sounds wise. What blocks offer this option? How much am I looking at for a LS9? Would it be cheaper to go with an LSX block at that point?
I do want to do the standing mile and I like high end runs so there would be extended periods of time under higher boost and higher power levels. Not that I would do it every day or that is my goal, but it's something when I do decide to do it I don't want to worry about per say.
I made 1,008 RWHP before on my previous setup. I would like to make more this time around somewhere in the 1,050-1,100 RWHP range and dial it down to 900-1,000 ish RWHP for regular use.
Detoxx is making over 9xx whp with his D1x SBE LS3. It's been over 800 for several years now...so I don't think you would have any issues for your intended application.
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From: Norn Iron
My understanding has been cylinder pressure is cylinder pressure, no matter if it's from 32 pounds of boost and making 1100 RWHP or 15 pounds of boost and making 1100 RWHP.
6-bolt heads I agree with sounds wise. What blocks offer this option? How much am I looking at for a LS9? Would it be cheaper to go with an LSX block at that point?
I do want to do the standing mile and I like high end runs so there would be extended periods of time under higher boost and higher power levels. Not that I would do it every day or that is my goal, but it's something when I do decide to do it I don't want to worry about per say.
I made 1,008 RWHP before on my previous setup. I would like to make more this time around somewhere in the 1,050-1,100 RWHP range and dial it down to 900-1,000 ish RWHP for regular use.
6-bolt heads I agree with sounds wise. What blocks offer this option? How much am I looking at for a LS9? Would it be cheaper to go with an LSX block at that point?
I do want to do the standing mile and I like high end runs so there would be extended periods of time under higher boost and higher power levels. Not that I would do it every day or that is my goal, but it's something when I do decide to do it I don't want to worry about per say.
I made 1,008 RWHP before on my previous setup. I would like to make more this time around somewhere in the 1,050-1,100 RWHP range and dial it down to 900-1,000 ish RWHP for regular use.
Nope...different builds, different CR's, different levels of timing etc etc can all see differing cylinder pressures at different times within the combustion and in general the engine's rotational cycle/position.
So cylinder pressure isnt just cylinder pressure...in the same way detonation and pre-ignition arent the same either, with the former being far more destructive than the latter, although both can kill an engine in no time.
But both are also examples of cylinder pressure simply at the very wrong time
If you're happy with iron, then of course the LSX is a good base to work from.
Bare LS9 block is circa $4k, so not cheap...but again, it does have some nice extras vs other blocks
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/parts/12623969.html
https://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Per...23969/10002/-1
LSX is cheaper, not sure of all the variations and/or supporting parts needed to make them work though which might add some cost again.
https://www.gmperformancemotor.com/category/LS196.html
Yeah apparently there are tabs that can be welded to the block and then they deck the block to get everything level. I haven't done it, just read about it on here. A google search came up with quite a bit of threads on the topic along with vendors. Or just start with a 6 bolt block, I just don't remember which one it is, the LSX maybe? Some of the ERL blocks were as well I believe.
Not exactly. 1100whp at 5500 RPM is more cylinder pressure than 1100whp at 7500RPM. Engine diplacement is also a factor.
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From: PDX-OR-USA
Yea and the cylinder pressure is highly variable based on mixture and fuel. Alcohol motors tend to
spike harder because richer = way higher compression peaks.. Even without Forced induction.
spike harder because richer = way higher compression peaks.. Even without Forced induction.
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Some blow stuff up at 500whp while others push 4 bolt thin deck stock heads to >1200whp. Don't push combo at peak torque/cylinder pressure. Fuel type (C vs. E vs. Meth) and IAT will determine how much you can push it.
The 6L iron blocks, Gen IV, are particularly strong in the 4-bolt application. The Gen IV 5.3 blocks are also good, but the 6L blocks seem to have pushed more power. 1400+whp.
LS9 is the strongest of the alumimum blocks. L33 next. Then LS2 ahead of LS3. Though I've heard LS2 is stronger than the L33. It's possible since most of the bore change comes from the liners and not the block itself.
LSX are a step up to either along with the Dart SHP. I believe both are rated to 2K HP with 1/2" 6-bolt head studs. Though I think I'd trust the Dart block more due to it's changes on the bottom half of the block (splayed caps, oil squirters, etc).
Then moving on to the billet stuff from RHS or Dart for anything above 2K.
But for 1k HP and under, pretty much any Gen IV block or the L33/LM7 Gen III stuff would work. Use an LS9 gasket, ARP head studs, and soften the chambers of whatever heads you have to help with pushing water.
LS9 is the strongest of the alumimum blocks. L33 next. Then LS2 ahead of LS3. Though I've heard LS2 is stronger than the L33. It's possible since most of the bore change comes from the liners and not the block itself.
LSX are a step up to either along with the Dart SHP. I believe both are rated to 2K HP with 1/2" 6-bolt head studs. Though I think I'd trust the Dart block more due to it's changes on the bottom half of the block (splayed caps, oil squirters, etc).
Then moving on to the billet stuff from RHS or Dart for anything above 2K.
But for 1k HP and under, pretty much any Gen IV block or the L33/LM7 Gen III stuff would work. Use an LS9 gasket, ARP head studs, and soften the chambers of whatever heads you have to help with pushing water.
