Overheating Help
09-15-2018, 09:17 AM
#21
If you do a lot of cooling system work or just want to minimize the time and effort to get a system filled without air, Uview Airlift Kit is worth its weight in gold.
09-15-2018, 09:45 AM
#22
10 Second Club
What is your fan set-up ?
35gpm Meziere pump and had trouble getting the motor to get heat in it.....added a fan controller and all well in the world now.....no T-stat. (it can also be used to cycle an electric WP as needed instead of using a T-stat or restrictor)
And yes, coolant moving too fast has no chance to lose heat...A restrictor or T-stat may help ?
35gpm Meziere pump and had trouble getting the motor to get heat in it.....added a fan controller and all well in the world now.....no T-stat. (it can also be used to cycle an electric WP as needed instead of using a T-stat or restrictor)
And yes, coolant moving too fast has no chance to lose heat...A restrictor or T-stat may help ?
09-15-2018, 12:29 PM
#25
It is most likely an air pocket. I work on semi trucks i use a vaccuum filler from cornwell to fill the cooling systems. I can tell you from experience vaccuum fill will change your life. Straight up best thing that has come out in years for cooling systems. I have a friend that has a lambo kit car built off a fiero chassis with an ls transplant. He fought filling the cooling system and over heating for months then we used my vacuum filler and first try it was perfect. Took two extra gallons of coolant then he was used too. I admit the filler cost 180 bucks but it makes my life easy and if i only used it on my camaro id feel like it was worth it just to save the headaches.
as for thermostats i dont believe for a second that they are necessary unless the engine uses the thermostat to operate a bypass. Like a diesel does. Until the thermo opens the coolant flow on a diesel is pushed back into the water pump instead of going to the radiator. Once it opens it seals shut the bypass and open the coolant passage to the radiator.
the stock pump on my ls3 had a bypass type set up. If the new pump has the same type set up then if your going to run no thermo you need to plug the bypass port with a welch plug. If not then it bypasses hot coolant back into the engine bypassing the radiator which could result in over heating. It might not if your not asking a ton from the cooling system but a turbo ls seems to me to be asking alot from the cooling system in my opinion.
as for thermostats i dont believe for a second that they are necessary unless the engine uses the thermostat to operate a bypass. Like a diesel does. Until the thermo opens the coolant flow on a diesel is pushed back into the water pump instead of going to the radiator. Once it opens it seals shut the bypass and open the coolant passage to the radiator.
the stock pump on my ls3 had a bypass type set up. If the new pump has the same type set up then if your going to run no thermo you need to plug the bypass port with a welch plug. If not then it bypasses hot coolant back into the engine bypassing the radiator which could result in over heating. It might not if your not asking a ton from the cooling system but a turbo ls seems to me to be asking alot from the cooling system in my opinion.
09-15-2018, 02:35 PM
#27
TECH Addict
Btu's per lb of coolant and lbs of air passing the radiator,,
they have to be balanced within reason...
You can move too little air, and the engine overheats,
the key ratio is btu to air flow, the coolant speed is
imaterial for the delta-T of the air to water exchange,,
I run systems that cool high end data centers,
coolant flow speed is more about energy use for us,
to move coolant faster takes more power.. So we size the
ex-changer to handle the BTU demand, and then we
tweak the coolant speed to get max thermal exchange at the
given air flow capacity(Fan energy) of the tower vs. the amps
being used up by the pumps.
Its all a balance, driving more air or water than needed just
uses more power..
Cheers
they have to be balanced within reason...
You can move too little air, and the engine overheats,
the key ratio is btu to air flow, the coolant speed is
imaterial for the delta-T of the air to water exchange,,
I run systems that cool high end data centers,
coolant flow speed is more about energy use for us,
to move coolant faster takes more power.. So we size the
ex-changer to handle the BTU demand, and then we
tweak the coolant speed to get max thermal exchange at the
given air flow capacity(Fan energy) of the tower vs. the amps
being used up by the pumps.
Its all a balance, driving more air or water than needed just
uses more power..
Cheers
09-15-2018, 04:50 PM
#29
Pretty sure it’s just real stubborn air. I took it for a drive now and shut down at 230. Got the electric pump going as I sit in the car and I can hear the air bubbles churning about damnit.
Did the funnel fill fill with the nose in the air for about 15 mins and heat blasting.
Tell me more about these pressure filler things? Can I rent one at advance? Haha
Did the funnel fill fill with the nose in the air for about 15 mins and heat blasting.
Tell me more about these pressure filler things? Can I rent one at advance? Haha
09-15-2018, 05:41 PM
#31
10 Second Club
So, only thing changed was the WP and T-stat....now overheats ? Correct.....A T-stat IS a restriction in line of the water flow as well as it opens and closes as needed (with temperature) or "cycles" as designed to allow the coolant to get heat soaked as its slowed in the motor as it transfers to the radiator where its cooled.
During this slow cycle, the coolant gains temperature in the motor, the T-stat opens more to allow more flow to the radiator to be cooled.
You have noticed your temp gauge needle moving during these "cycles" right ?
Seems this is a HUGE controversy.
Last edited by Doug G; 09-15-2018 at 05:53 PM.
09-15-2018, 10:21 PM
#32
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2016/07/21/9-cooling-system-myths-and-mistakes-and-why-to-avoid-them/
So, only thing changed was the WP and T-stat....now overheats ? Correct.....A T-stat IS a restriction in line of the water flow as well as it opens and closes as needed (with temperature) or "cycles" as designed to allow the coolant to get heat soaked as its slowed in the motor as it transfers to the radiator where its cooled.
During this slow cycle, the coolant gains temperature in the motor, the T-stat opens more to allow more flow to the radiator to be cooled.
You have noticed your temp gauge needle moving during these "cycles" right ?
Seems this is a HUGE controversy.
So, only thing changed was the WP and T-stat....now overheats ? Correct.....A T-stat IS a restriction in line of the water flow as well as it opens and closes as needed (with temperature) or "cycles" as designed to allow the coolant to get heat soaked as its slowed in the motor as it transfers to the radiator where its cooled.
During this slow cycle, the coolant gains temperature in the motor, the T-stat opens more to allow more flow to the radiator to be cooled.
You have noticed your temp gauge needle moving during these "cycles" right ?
Seems this is a HUGE controversy.
09-17-2018, 09:24 AM
#34
Restricted User
The thermostat creates a pressure differential which keeps flow moving in a constant direction without getting stalled inside of the pump.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
09-17-2018, 09:55 AM
#35
The thermostat creates a pressure differential which keeps flow moving in a constant direction without getting stalled inside of the pump.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
09-17-2018, 12:43 PM
#36
The thermostat creates a pressure differential which keeps flow moving in a constant direction without getting stalled inside of the pump.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
Without that restriction, coolant pressure falls, air isn't forced to the top, and water will boil.
Saying you need a thermostat to slow the flow of coolant through a radiator is stupid and should be filed away as "backyard knowledge" along with backpressure creating torque. Its a misconception, not a fact.
Most modern coolant systems have been redesigned to put the thermostat on the opposite side of the coolant system to help pressurize the system without slowing the rate of flow through the radiator.
Look up the formula for heat exchange. Flow is directly proportional to the amount of potential heat exchanged, and decreasing the flow decreases it.
09-17-2018, 02:03 PM
#37
Restricted User
No, you don't need a thermostat. I was merely stating how the idea that you must use a thermostat to slow flow through the radiator got started.
I've never ran a thermostat in my Nova. Has NEVER overheated. But in order to manage without one, you have to get ever last little bit of air out of the system.
It helps to have a properly setup cooling system too. My radiator cap is the highest point in my cooling system and my upper radiator hose doesn't have any place to trap air.
I've never ran a thermostat in my Nova. Has NEVER overheated. But in order to manage without one, you have to get ever last little bit of air out of the system.
It helps to have a properly setup cooling system too. My radiator cap is the highest point in my cooling system and my upper radiator hose doesn't have any place to trap air.
09-28-2018, 05:13 PM
#38
UPDATE:
uview airlift is awesome and got all the air out. Still gets warmer than I’d like cruising around. Got up to 220ish on the highway at about 2500 rpm on a 20 min Cruise.
Now to the question. Spoke with meziere today. They said -16 hose is too small and therefore not flowing well. -16 is just under 1” ID where as they said stock hose is closer to 1 3/4” ID. told me to run stock hoses or -20 at smallest
thoughts? Don’t have stock hose around to measure the inside diameter either
uview airlift is awesome and got all the air out. Still gets warmer than I’d like cruising around. Got up to 220ish on the highway at about 2500 rpm on a 20 min Cruise.
Now to the question. Spoke with meziere today. They said -16 hose is too small and therefore not flowing well. -16 is just under 1” ID where as they said stock hose is closer to 1 3/4” ID. told me to run stock hoses or -20 at smallest
thoughts? Don’t have stock hose around to measure the inside diameter either
09-28-2018, 06:54 PM
#39
The slowing coolant down is bullshit. thermostat isn’t needed, it just helps the engine heat up faster and keep it above a set temp (efficency and emissions). Removing the Tstat means the engine coolant will find its happy medium and you will get your temp range.
Its all about flow (coolant and air) and faster coolant out and through the rad will have a lower delta and thus cooler engine. You want to create fast flow under pressure and turbulence in the rad core to help break surface tension so the water is constantly hitting the rad core rows to dissipate the heat to the fins which cool air is running. It’s a lot about airflow, a small rad with tons of air will cool better than a large rad with low airflow as it has no way to dissapate the heat.
if you remove the Tstat you need go plug the bypass hole behind the Tstat (second sealing surface on the LS Tstat) otherwise the flow will bypass the coolant circuit and circulate back through the engine and overheat. A freeze plug with a hole drilled for air bleeding or a rubber expansion plug will work or weld it.
step up the hose as well -16 is too small.
Its all about flow (coolant and air) and faster coolant out and through the rad will have a lower delta and thus cooler engine. You want to create fast flow under pressure and turbulence in the rad core to help break surface tension so the water is constantly hitting the rad core rows to dissipate the heat to the fins which cool air is running. It’s a lot about airflow, a small rad with tons of air will cool better than a large rad with low airflow as it has no way to dissapate the heat.
if you remove the Tstat you need go plug the bypass hole behind the Tstat (second sealing surface on the LS Tstat) otherwise the flow will bypass the coolant circuit and circulate back through the engine and overheat. A freeze plug with a hole drilled for air bleeding or a rubber expansion plug will work or weld it.
step up the hose as well -16 is too small.
09-28-2018, 07:07 PM
#40
Thanks black bird. Meziere stated there is no bypass to plug in the wp319 pump, But that -16 was too small and “starving the pump” so not getting good flow.
I Have -16 fittings welded into the radiator so will figure out my next move about chopping them off and adding -20 or going another route. They said -20 was the “minimum” to run. May have to just go back to the stock water pump that was cooling fine lol
I Have -16 fittings welded into the radiator so will figure out my next move about chopping them off and adding -20 or going another route. They said -20 was the “minimum” to run. May have to just go back to the stock water pump that was cooling fine lol