Mild low 10 sec. setup advice
12-22-2018, 05:53 PM
#21
fuel mileage will largely depend on tuning and driving style.
Smooth idle, there are just so many cams out there that will offer a stock like idle...that isnt a problem at all.
Porting oil pump, and stuff like that is simple and free...so no real reason not to. ARP head studs always good insurance, although for an LS they are pricey. I still couldnt bring myself to buy Chinese though.
LS9 gaskets are cheap too and make sense etc.
A2W is of little real benefit, unless you can use ice. Otherwise keep it simple and A2a, with water/meth if you like.
All the wobbly driveshaft stuff, seems to relate to those who opt for a 1 piece. They all have a very low critical speed due to their length and some questionable build quality. Why the latter seems a mystery.
A good well built 2 piece will be able to run to any speed you'll realistically ever achieve safely and smoothly. A lot of the 1 pieces seem to quote around 150mph limitation ? which is pathetic
And the stock rubbers on most cars dont seem to last very long. For parts supply in the UK, I know some guys were using a BMW rubber donut as they fitted the same and were easier to get hold of, as they are a common wear and tear item.
Smooth idle, there are just so many cams out there that will offer a stock like idle...that isnt a problem at all.
Porting oil pump, and stuff like that is simple and free...so no real reason not to. ARP head studs always good insurance, although for an LS they are pricey. I still couldnt bring myself to buy Chinese though.
LS9 gaskets are cheap too and make sense etc.
A2W is of little real benefit, unless you can use ice. Otherwise keep it simple and A2a, with water/meth if you like.
All the wobbly driveshaft stuff, seems to relate to those who opt for a 1 piece. They all have a very low critical speed due to their length and some questionable build quality. Why the latter seems a mystery.
A good well built 2 piece will be able to run to any speed you'll realistically ever achieve safely and smoothly. A lot of the 1 pieces seem to quote around 150mph limitation ? which is pathetic
And the stock rubbers on most cars dont seem to last very long. For parts supply in the UK, I know some guys were using a BMW rubber donut as they fitted the same and were easier to get hold of, as they are a common wear and tear item.
yea the two piece driveshaft is extremely expensive. I’m trying to avoid that expense for as long as I can. I tried a replacement “heavy duty” bmw guibo one time and shredded it in very short order. I’ll probably buy a couple spare stock ones and just check them from time to time.
I always like to do the free mods. Head porting, oil pump porting. Ronding edges where oil needs to drain back. Just little details. Maybe I will just carry forward with my meth setup. My boost controller has a feature for a flow sensor and it it does not sense water flow it lower the boost to a safe level. So that maybe a really good option
12-22-2018, 06:21 PM
#22
9 Second Club
A simple steel shaft wont be expensive.
I had Carolina Driveline make my first 2 piece, and they were very keenly priced. Was actually meant to get one for a friends Monaro a few years back, although only ended up with half as he never followed it up with final measurements.
I bought a GTO shaft and had it sent to them, although the 3 bolt flange made it a little awkward. We bought an adaptor to change it to 4 bolt, but never got around to fitting it or doing anything more.
My current 2 piece steel shaft was from IEDLS, which was just a bearing/centre joint upgrade vs the original Carolina shaft. It was fairly expensive though, probably more than it should have been but they offered what I wanted, when almost nobody else would even make me a 2 piece.
A 2 piece Alloy shaft would be nice though if it could be strong enough.
I had Carolina Driveline make my first 2 piece, and they were very keenly priced. Was actually meant to get one for a friends Monaro a few years back, although only ended up with half as he never followed it up with final measurements.
I bought a GTO shaft and had it sent to them, although the 3 bolt flange made it a little awkward. We bought an adaptor to change it to 4 bolt, but never got around to fitting it or doing anything more.
My current 2 piece steel shaft was from IEDLS, which was just a bearing/centre joint upgrade vs the original Carolina shaft. It was fairly expensive though, probably more than it should have been but they offered what I wanted, when almost nobody else would even make me a 2 piece.
A 2 piece Alloy shaft would be nice though if it could be strong enough.
12-22-2018, 08:40 PM
#23
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I still think your leaving alot on the table by not going E85, it's worth it IMO even if you only use it when going to the track or playing around. My truck made 640 on 11.5lb with low timing on E68 through a 80e. It is a ly6 6.0, but still impressive to me and made me a believer in ethanol.
12-22-2018, 08:53 PM
#24
I still think your leaving alot on the table by not going E85, it's worth it IMO even if you only use it when going to the track or playing around. My truck made 640 on 11.5lb with low timing on E68 through a 80e. It is a ly6 6.0, but still impressive to me and made me a believer in ethanol.
I may go meth. I don’t have any plans for e85. There’s only like one or two pumps in town. I’m not keen on making special trips across town just to get fuel. Then I’ll have to make major fuel system upgrades. Not interested in that right now. If I can get 80% of the gain by using boostane, then it’s a much cheaper route for me. I can order boostane and have it sent to my house. I don’t think I can do that with e85 economically.
12-22-2018, 09:23 PM
#26
that thing does look pretty serious. I’m not spending $900 on a damn driveshaft tho. That’s ridiculous. I have a guy here in town that couple make me a shaft and I can machine my own adapter for the rear. I have a mill and a lathe and a good bit of machining experience. I actually used to work at the place that I speak of. And I worked right around the corner from there at Cam motion lol.
12-22-2018, 11:44 PM
#27
good points. However.
1) I plan on upgrading the stubs. I am still running the stock drive shaft with the rubbers. Well I have a more heavy duty 06 model in the car now. I changed the rear end and the driveshaft to match. The shaft and Guibos are a bit bigger.
2) the 4l60, I’m not worried about. I built it and it’s done correctly. I built them to hold up in MUCH harsher applications. Think low 9 sec nitrous car that weighed 4000lbs with driver and put 750 to the wheels. Besides, I have tq management pulling some timing on the shifts.
3) I have a big cooler on it already. I can log my trans temp and it does not increase in temp when I make a pass. It stays 10 degrees below the coolant temp. That tells me it’s not slipping yet. Even with pulling timing on the 2-3 shift it will lightly chirp the tires. Trans is the very least of my worries. It breaks, I build it stronger. No problem.
Also, I was planning on putting a smaller stall in it anyways.
129 on stock heads and cam is impressive.
I do have some nitto nto5r tires I’ll probably run on it my first outing. I have a little voodo controller (I call my cortex ebc that because it’s like magic helping put the power down) that should help me get off the line decently quick but not too harsh. My plan on this setup is to leave about as hard as it did on motor and that netted me 1.7 sixty ft’s. Ramp it in after I’m moving.
12-23-2018, 12:07 AM
#28
I still think your leaving alot on the table by not going E85, it's worth it IMO even if you only use it when going to the track or playing around. My truck made 640 on 11.5lb with low timing on E68 through a 80e. It is a ly6 6.0, but still impressive to me and made me a believer in ethanol.
in my never ending quest quest for I can’t decide what the hell I want to do, this definitely is a damn good read. https://www.dragzine.com/tech-storie...inner-crowned/
makes me want to carry forward with meth injection because washer fluid is easier and cheaper to get.
12-23-2018, 03:58 AM
#29
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
that thing does look pretty serious. I’m not spending $900 on a damn driveshaft tho. That’s ridiculous. I have a guy here in town that couple make me a shaft and I can machine my own adapter for the rear. I have a mill and a lathe and a good bit of machining experience. I actually used to work at the place that I speak of. And I worked right around the corner from there at Cam motion lol.
edit to add: I've noticed the mindset on here that all the cool kids build 8 second cars for $2000 with junk yard parts. When I got to the track I find it odd that people pull in with brand new trucks with nice enclosed trailers and roll out a junk yard fox body. This is an extreme case and isn't really directed at you, but a general observation of this site within the last couple years. I don't have a problem driving a beater truck every day while spending money on good parts for the car I'm going to race. I just don't understand the criticism people that put good parts in their car get around here anymore.
Last edited by BCNUL8R; 12-23-2018 at 06:03 AM.
12-23-2018, 05:41 AM
#30
9 Second Club
that thing does look pretty serious. I’m not spending $900 on a damn driveshaft tho. That’s ridiculous. I have a guy here in town that couple make me a shaft and I can machine my own adapter for the rear. I have a mill and a lathe and a good bit of machining experience. I actually used to work at the place that I speak of. And I worked right around the corner from there at Cam motion lol.
12-23-2018, 05:27 PM
#34
No excuse not to replace that factory junk driveshaft then. You have a hell of a resume...head porter, trans builder, machinist, welder/fabricator and worked at Cam motion! I have none of those skills, but I can install parts and tune...LOL. Low 10's in a daily is actually not that difficult at all and with that background it should be even more of a walk in the park. I'll probably go with Cam motion to replace my 228r when I build my motor. I'm wanting to get aggressive on the cam, but still work well with the procharger. I'm looking to run mid 9's with no care for gas mileage. I don't like to spend money unnecessarily, but I'm not afraid to spend money on good parts either.
edit to add: I've noticed the mindset on here that all the cool kids build 8 second cars for $2000 with junk yard parts. When I got to the track I find it odd that people pull in with brand new trucks with nice enclosed trailers and roll out a junk yard fox body. This is an extreme case and isn't really directed at you, but a general observation of this site within the last couple years. I don't have a problem driving a beater truck every day while spending money on good parts for the car I'm going to race. I just don't understand the criticism people that put good parts in their car get around here anymore.
edit to add: I've noticed the mindset on here that all the cool kids build 8 second cars for $2000 with junk yard parts. When I got to the track I find it odd that people pull in with brand new trucks with nice enclosed trailers and roll out a junk yard fox body. This is an extreme case and isn't really directed at you, but a general observation of this site within the last couple years. I don't have a problem driving a beater truck every day while spending money on good parts for the car I'm going to race. I just don't understand the criticism people that put good parts in their car get around here anymore.
Btw, installing billet turbo today. I’m on my second parts store run as I type this. (Sitting in the parking lot lol).
12-23-2018, 05:56 PM
#35
9 Second Club
Then as said, I got half way through getting a custom shaft made for a friends Monaro/GTO....but the front half and rear flange adapter is still sitting on the floor in his house...he just never got around to finishing it.
That must be near 10 years ago lol.
I would definitely give them a call if you need anything.
12-25-2018, 06:40 AM
#36
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
hopefully no one takes what I say about my capabilities as bragging or anything. I only said it to let you guys know me better. Not to brag, I know you didn’t say anything about that but sometimes people will take it as such.
Btw, installing billet turbo today. I’m on my second parts store run as I type this. (Sitting in the parking lot lol).
The other part of my rant about the people insisting on using junk yard parts and hating on people that spend money on good new parts wasn't directed at you. I haven't really seen that from you it just fit the topic of the driveshaft debate. You are building a back up motor which is great I'm still trying to decide how much $$$ I want to spend on a motor and what route to take as I want to get a motor ready as well. The issue is you have a good running motor currently so you have time and it may last a long time. My advice from years of being at the track and having a few different low 10 second cars now (I've never gone 9's so that is why I want a solid mid 9 second car this time) is start working on putting better parts in the driveline. That is my only disagreement with what you are doing...just my opinion, but over killing the driveline isn't hurting anything except a couple grand for piece of mind.
12-25-2018, 06:47 AM
#37
9 Second Club
Driveline is important....a broken shaft can cause damage.
And of course breaking something like that at the track, leaves you stranded. Important for someone who actually drives the car.
In all the years I've been driving to/from tracks, and for me it's usually a 400+ mile each way and ferry crossing, only once have I had to be recovered and that was a catastrophic engine failure.
But I've never broken anything in the driveline that has prevented me getting home ( but I have broken various stuff in the driveline ). Securing at least that side of things does make sense. It takes a bit more to do real harm to the engine that would totally prevent you getting home, but takes very little with the driveline to render it undriveable.
And of course breaking something like that at the track, leaves you stranded. Important for someone who actually drives the car.
In all the years I've been driving to/from tracks, and for me it's usually a 400+ mile each way and ferry crossing, only once have I had to be recovered and that was a catastrophic engine failure.
But I've never broken anything in the driveline that has prevented me getting home ( but I have broken various stuff in the driveline ). Securing at least that side of things does make sense. It takes a bit more to do real harm to the engine that would totally prevent you getting home, but takes very little with the driveline to render it undriveable.
12-25-2018, 08:03 AM
#38
10 Second Club
iTrader: (2)
Driveline is important....a broken shaft can cause damage.
And of course breaking something like that at the track, leaves you stranded. Important for someone who actually drives the car.
In all the years I've been driving to/from tracks, and for me it's usually a 400+ mile each way and ferry crossing, only once have I had to be recovered and that was a catastrophic engine failure.
But I've never broken anything in the driveline that has prevented me getting home ( but I have broken various stuff in the driveline ). Securing at least that side of things does make sense. It takes a bit more to do real harm to the engine that would totally prevent you getting home, but takes very little with the driveline to render it undriveable.
And of course breaking something like that at the track, leaves you stranded. Important for someone who actually drives the car.
In all the years I've been driving to/from tracks, and for me it's usually a 400+ mile each way and ferry crossing, only once have I had to be recovered and that was a catastrophic engine failure.
But I've never broken anything in the driveline that has prevented me getting home ( but I have broken various stuff in the driveline ). Securing at least that side of things does make sense. It takes a bit more to do real harm to the engine that would totally prevent you getting home, but takes very little with the driveline to render it undriveable.
I've always driven my cars to the track because they are street cars. I've had 3 low ten second cars now all driven to and from the track. I believe in building the driveline in any type of car, but over kill on the driveline is essential on a true daily street car. Safety, extra damage caused to other parts when one thing breaks, and getting home are all good reasons to overkill the driveline. If you break something and hurt something else you may have just cost yourself more money long term.
12-25-2018, 08:18 AM
#39
9 Second Club
My closest call, and luckiest was when I had the original IRS in the car.
I brought spare shafts, spare CV's as I knew something was going to break.
But the ******* thing broke an inner CV joint....no problem, easily replaced. After replacing, still no drive, it had also broken the shaft at the outer joint !! ****
Took everything apart,, shaft had sheared at a bit of an angle where the outer splines started. Managed to get it all cleaned up, found a guy at the track with a MIG welder and I welded the shaft back together, then welded the shaft to the inner portion of the CV joint. And that was enough to let me drive home again.
Have broke various gearbox parts too, but I've always had drive to get home ( whether it was silly to drive a few hundred miles or not in that state )
I brought spare shafts, spare CV's as I knew something was going to break.
But the ******* thing broke an inner CV joint....no problem, easily replaced. After replacing, still no drive, it had also broken the shaft at the outer joint !! ****
Took everything apart,, shaft had sheared at a bit of an angle where the outer splines started. Managed to get it all cleaned up, found a guy at the track with a MIG welder and I welded the shaft back together, then welded the shaft to the inner portion of the CV joint. And that was enough to let me drive home again.
Have broke various gearbox parts too, but I've always had drive to get home ( whether it was silly to drive a few hundred miles or not in that state )
