Mild low 10 sec. setup advice
Mild low 10 sec. setup advice My fellas. I'm just sitting here dreaming and trying to plan out things for the next major stage in my speed addiction. i'm wondering if what i want to do can even be done. First off are my goals.
run low 10's and trap 140+
idle nice
get better fuel mileage than i do now with the 5.7
Quiet
What I have now:
on3 7875 cast single turbo, upgrading to the billet version
2004 ls1 gto.
nicely ported 243's
btr stage 2 NA cam (too big)
yank 3400 power adder series converter (too big for my liking)
My plans:
ENGINE
I have an aluminum 5.3 aluminum engine, gen 3. Its going to get better rods and piston so I wont have to worry with it. I've never taken an oil pump apart on an ls engine but I'm sure it can be detailed and improved (think porting). same heads. Maybe use head studs, I have ARP bolts right now. Cam, well i'm not sure. I was considering summit racings ghost cam or a texas speed high lift 212/218 on a 115 lobe sep.
FUEL:
pump 93
TIRES:
Mickey Thompson drag radials 275/40/17
I also plan on adding a msd or lingenfelter launch control
TRANS:
built 4l60e, I was thinking about going down to a 2800-3000 Billet triple disk so i can lock it up in third for a little more mph
GEARS:
stock 3.46
INTERCOOLER:
right now its air to air. I'm highly considering an air to water. I was going to go meth, but a few comments in another thread lead me to believe air to water may be a better route. also im thinking less hassle and less complication and less money in the long run because i wont have to purchase water/meth mix, although more weight.
FUEL SYSTEM:
was planning on adding another aeromotive stealth 340 in tank to the one i already have and keep it a dead head system, second pump activated under boost.
FUEL INJECTORS:
currently have siemens deka 60's but plan on going to 80's
does this sound doable? what else should I address or change? I more or less want a pleasant sleeper that hauls the mail. what say you guys?
run low 10's and trap 140+
idle nice
get better fuel mileage than i do now with the 5.7
Quiet
What I have now:
on3 7875 cast single turbo, upgrading to the billet version
2004 ls1 gto.
nicely ported 243's
btr stage 2 NA cam (too big)
yank 3400 power adder series converter (too big for my liking)
My plans:
ENGINE
I have an aluminum 5.3 aluminum engine, gen 3. Its going to get better rods and piston so I wont have to worry with it. I've never taken an oil pump apart on an ls engine but I'm sure it can be detailed and improved (think porting). same heads. Maybe use head studs, I have ARP bolts right now. Cam, well i'm not sure. I was considering summit racings ghost cam or a texas speed high lift 212/218 on a 115 lobe sep.
FUEL:
pump 93
TIRES:
Mickey Thompson drag radials 275/40/17
I also plan on adding a msd or lingenfelter launch control
TRANS:
built 4l60e, I was thinking about going down to a 2800-3000 Billet triple disk so i can lock it up in third for a little more mph
GEARS:
stock 3.46
INTERCOOLER:
right now its air to air. I'm highly considering an air to water. I was going to go meth, but a few comments in another thread lead me to believe air to water may be a better route. also im thinking less hassle and less complication and less money in the long run because i wont have to purchase water/meth mix, although more weight.
FUEL SYSTEM:
was planning on adding another aeromotive stealth 340 in tank to the one i already have and keep it a dead head system, second pump activated under boost.
FUEL INJECTORS:
currently have siemens deka 60's but plan on going to 80's
does this sound doable? what else should I address or change? I more or less want a pleasant sleeper that hauls the mail. what say you guys?
Last edited by Kfxguy; Dec 21, 2018 at 01:58 PM.
Sounds like a nice plan. Plenty of info out there. It’ll do what you want pretty easily. Don’t sweat the oil pump. Take it apart, clean it, port it if you want and put it back together and torque the bolts that hold it together. Not rocket science. Plus piece of mind nothings wrong inside. I’m not familiar with that particular trans, but it could pose issues so I’ve heard. Do what you have planned and run it at 12-15 psi of boost and it’ll do what you want. Good luck, keep us posted.
Sounds like a nice plan. Plenty of info out there. It’ll do what you want pretty easily. Don’t sweat the oil pump. Take it apart, clean it, port it if you want and put it back together and torque the bolts that hold it together. Not rocket science. Plus piece of mind nothings wrong inside. I’m not familiar with that particular trans, but it could pose issues so I’ve heard. Do what you have planned and run it at 12-15 psi of boost and it’ll do what you want. Good luck, keep us posted.
Here’s something for you, my car weighs 3430 with me. SBE 5.3, th400, PTC $450 converter, 3.31 gear and a small wheel s475 t4. Last year at the NMCA race, I forgot to to disable a launch retard and was pulling 11 degrees on the launch and ramping it back in over 2.5 seconds. Killed my ET big time. Still ran 6.90 @ 106 and 123 in the quarter on the brakes hard at 900 feet. That was at 12 psi.
Here’s something for you, my car weighs 3430 with me. SBE 5.3, th400, PTC $450 converter, 3.31 gear and a small wheel s475 t4. Last year at the NMCA race, I forgot to to disable a launch retard and was pulling 11 degrees on the launch and ramping it back in over 2.5 seconds. Killed my ET big time. Still ran 6.90 @ 106 and 123 in the quarter on the brakes hard at 900 feet. That was at 12 psi.
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TECH Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 333
Likes: 4
From: New Zealand
I ran my car (a 4 door version of what you have) for years on the original LS1 and a single turbo (based on a STS rear mount - except we upgraded almost everything in the kit other than the turbo itself). Had 4160e built with billet lock up and about 2800stall. I could lock up in 2nd, 3rd or 4th. Car got a best of 31mpg (UK) so about 26mpg US - on a trip trying hard to avoid boost. Cam was in the 222/226 with 0.575 on 114/116 lobes, injectors were Bosch Evo14's. Made 450rwhp at 6psi, no interecooler just water/meth.
If you want a highway cruiser, short boost pulls, the odd strip run - you could run any of the 3 options - A2A, W2A or water/meth. I liked water/meth because I didn't block my radiator or add much weight, plus the tank weight was in the trunk.
If you want to run hot laps back to back and really lean on it mile after mile - no auto will do that beyond around 600rwhp... you can't get rid of the heat once they soak and no amount of money fixes that. So in that event just go manual and put in a T56 magnum like I had to. A built 4160e works really well though and I loved mine - it just could not take road racing, nor would any other auto out there once I went twin turbo LS3. With the auto you get no lag and can boost from a dig so 10's are in the bag. My stock LS3 runs 13psi at 11:1 on pump so I can't see why your LS1 couldn't run 12+psi at lower cr and much lower dynamic compression with your current cam if AIT's are kept in check.... make sure the knock sensors work and take out timing as AIT goes up.
If you want a highway cruiser, short boost pulls, the odd strip run - you could run any of the 3 options - A2A, W2A or water/meth. I liked water/meth because I didn't block my radiator or add much weight, plus the tank weight was in the trunk.
If you want to run hot laps back to back and really lean on it mile after mile - no auto will do that beyond around 600rwhp... you can't get rid of the heat once they soak and no amount of money fixes that. So in that event just go manual and put in a T56 magnum like I had to. A built 4160e works really well though and I loved mine - it just could not take road racing, nor would any other auto out there once I went twin turbo LS3. With the auto you get no lag and can boost from a dig so 10's are in the bag. My stock LS3 runs 13psi at 11:1 on pump so I can't see why your LS1 couldn't run 12+psi at lower cr and much lower dynamic compression with your current cam if AIT's are kept in check.... make sure the knock sensors work and take out timing as AIT goes up.
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Verdad Gallardo At 12 psi timing was probably around 18-19 degrees. I do read plugs and they show super safe. Heats good, but the timing mark is well before the bend on the strap. I’d say the mark is less than halfway across the top of the strap. Could probably pick up quite a bit pushin the mark back some. That’s on E85 with a Treadstone vertical flow a/a. The boost curve was pretty slow too (boost/timing for street tune). The pass I referred to above had a 1.75 sixty foot due to the lame boost curve and timing retard. Even so, had I stayed in it, probably would’ve run 10.40 or so at about 134ish. Now get the sixty foot time down to 1.4x and we’re talkin’! Three tenths in the sixty could be worth 6 on the other end. Do the math! Rings are gapped at .028 top and bottom. I run ngk7 plug gapped at .020
Last edited by 3 window; Dec 21, 2018 at 05:16 PM.
MT DRs at the power levels you are talking about will twist the splines on your halfshafts even before it breaks your CV joints. At your likely 4000lb curb weight, your 4l60 will need some sort of magic to live, and your higher stall torque converter will need a much better trans cooler than factory in order to live. With stock heads and cam I never got past 129mph in the quarter at 10#s of boost. That was, however, with an A/A IC and meth spray. I ran out of calendar pages to measure my 60' times, as I never really set up the suspension for drag racing.
MT DRs at the power levels you are talking about will twist the splines on your halfshafts even before it breaks your CV joints. At your likely 4000lb curb weight, your 4l60 will need some sort of magic to live, and your higher stall torque converter will need a much better trans cooler than factory in order to live. With stock heads and cam I never got past 129mph in the quarter at 10#s of boost. That was, however, with an A/A IC and meth spray. I ran out of calendar pages to measure my 60' times, as I never really set up the suspension for drag racing.
1) I plan on upgrading the stubs. I am still running the stock drive shaft with the rubbers. Well I have a more heavy duty 06 model in the car now. I changed the rear end and the driveshaft to match. The shaft and Guibos are a bit bigger.
2) the 4l60, I’m not worried about. I built it and it’s done correctly. I built them to hold up in MUCH harsher applications. Think low 9 sec nitrous car that weighed 4000lbs with driver and put 750 to the wheels. Besides, I have tq management pulling some timing on the shifts.
3) I have a big cooler on it already. I can log my trans temp and it does not increase in temp when I make a pass. It stays 10 degrees below the coolant temp. That tells me it’s not slipping yet. Even with pulling timing on the 2-3 shift it will lightly chirp the tires. Trans is the very least of my worries. It breaks, I build it stronger. No problem.
Also, I was planning on putting a smaller stall in it anyways.
129 on stock heads and cam is impressive.
I do have some nitto nto5r tires I’ll probably run on it my first outing. I have a little voodo controller (I call my cortex ebc that because it’s like magic helping put the power down) that should help me get off the line decently quick but not too harsh. My plan on this setup is to leave about as hard as it did on motor and that netted me 1.7 sixty ft’s. Ramp it in after I’m moving.
I think if you add meth or switch to E85 and go to 12 psi you can get there safely now. The '06 stuff isn't much better than the '04 stuff in the driveline at all, but should be fine if you are cutting 1.7x 60' times. I think a 1.7x at 140 mph will get you low 10's. The driveshaft may not cause an issue before the axle stubs, but I'd go ahead and replace that stock 2 piece shaft now and put in a safety loop to be safe.
I think if you add meth or switch to E85 and go to 12 psi you can get there safely now. The '06 stuff isn't much better than the '04 stuff in the driveline at all, but should be fine if you are cutting 1.7x 60' times. I think a 1.7x at 140 mph will get you low 10's. The driveshaft may not cause an issue before the axle stubs, but I'd go ahead and replace that stock 2 piece shaft now and put in a safety loop to be safe.
This didn’t take long at all to happen
the 05-06 is a thicker shaft, thicker rubbers and bigger diameter rubbers.
well I dunno. I shredded the 04 shaft rubbers and and center support in short order when I was not boosted. Then I swapped to the 06 stuff. Been beating the snot out of it since and now it’s boosted. I looked at the rubber stuff night before last and it doesn’t look stressed yet.
This didn’t take long at all to happen
the 05-06 is a thicker shaft, thicker rubbers and bigger diameter rubbers.
Last edited by BCNUL8R; Dec 22, 2018 at 02:11 PM.
1) all the vibration stories I’ve read and added noise the shaft transmits. My car is very quiet and I want to keep it that way
2) if I eliminate the cushion of the stock shaft then I’ll start breaking other stuff. I know the stubs are a problem for sure do I will replace those and the axles. Other than that, I’d rather keep it as factory and comfortable as possible.
I could agree but sometimes if it ain’t broke don’t fix it. I haven’t put a driveshaft in because
1) all the vibration stories I’ve read and added noise the shaft transmits. My car is very quiet and I want to keep it that way
2) if I eliminate the cushion of the stock shaft then I’ll start breaking other stuff. I know the stubs are a problem for sure do I will replace those and the axles. Other than that, I’d rather keep it as factory and comfortable as possible.
At least put a safety loop on it. You would be surprised how much difference it makes getting rid of those rubber parts though. I've had a couple GTO's with different setups. Daily drove the first one with a single piece BMR aluminum driveshaft. It did pick up a slight vibration at 140 mph. I have the DSS 2 piece aluminum shaft now with Sonnax u-joints and the direct fit billet blue flange on the rear it's so smooth at high speed without the mushiness of the rubber and I still have safety loops. It's just not worth cheaping out on somethings. My opinion only.
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 13,616
Likes: 185
From: Norn Iron
fuel mileage will largely depend on tuning and driving style.
Smooth idle, there are just so many cams out there that will offer a stock like idle...that isnt a problem at all.
Porting oil pump, and stuff like that is simple and free...so no real reason not to. ARP head studs always good insurance, although for an LS they are pricey. I still couldnt bring myself to buy Chinese though.
LS9 gaskets are cheap too and make sense etc.
A2W is of little real benefit, unless you can use ice. Otherwise keep it simple and A2a, with water/meth if you like.
All the wobbly driveshaft stuff, seems to relate to those who opt for a 1 piece. They all have a very low critical speed due to their length and some questionable build quality. Why the latter seems a mystery.
A good well built 2 piece will be able to run to any speed you'll realistically ever achieve safely and smoothly. A lot of the 1 pieces seem to quote around 150mph limitation ? which is pathetic
And the stock rubbers on most cars dont seem to last very long. For parts supply in the UK, I know some guys were using a BMW rubber donut as they fitted the same and were easier to get hold of, as they are a common wear and tear item.
Smooth idle, there are just so many cams out there that will offer a stock like idle...that isnt a problem at all.
Porting oil pump, and stuff like that is simple and free...so no real reason not to. ARP head studs always good insurance, although for an LS they are pricey. I still couldnt bring myself to buy Chinese though.
LS9 gaskets are cheap too and make sense etc.
A2W is of little real benefit, unless you can use ice. Otherwise keep it simple and A2a, with water/meth if you like.
All the wobbly driveshaft stuff, seems to relate to those who opt for a 1 piece. They all have a very low critical speed due to their length and some questionable build quality. Why the latter seems a mystery.
A good well built 2 piece will be able to run to any speed you'll realistically ever achieve safely and smoothly. A lot of the 1 pieces seem to quote around 150mph limitation ? which is pathetic
And the stock rubbers on most cars dont seem to last very long. For parts supply in the UK, I know some guys were using a BMW rubber donut as they fitted the same and were easier to get hold of, as they are a common wear and tear item.