88mm with L33 spool time question...
88mm with L33 spool time question... so basically ive been wanting to do a vsr billet 88mm turbo for a while now. I originally had a iron block 5.3 with just a cam and a billet 78/75 and the thing just didn't cut it for me.. i have since then picked up an aluminum 5.3, its got 243 heads which will be ported, paired with an ls6 intake and the plan was to try the summit stage 2 boost cam.. trans is a th400 with a 3200 stall.. shifting about 6800.. this set up will be on a terminator x as well.. the power goal is 1000rwhp.. i do a lot of roll racing where im at on the street. the car is a 2002 z28 and i currently have 3.50 gears from my last build. If anyone has anything they'd like to chime in on let me know. i wanna know if anyone has a similar set up cause i wanna know how well it'll spool. Thanks
so basically ive been wanting to do a vsr billet 88mm turbo for a while now. I originally had a iron block 5.3 with just a cam and a billet 78/75 and the thing just didn't cut it for me.. i have since then picked up an aluminum 5.3, its got 243 heads which will be ported, paired with an ls6 intake and the plan was to try the summit stage 2 boost cam.. trans is a th400 with a 3200 stall.. shifting about 6800.. this set up will be on a terminator x as well.. the power goal is 1000rwhp.. i do a lot of roll racing where im at on the street. the car is a 2002 z28 and i currently have 3.50 gears from my last build. If anyone has anything they'd like to chime in on let me know. i wanna know if anyone has a similar set up cause i wanna know how well it'll spool. Thanks
Ive done a few 80’s at the 1000’ish range, with the 88/96 turbine. 88 is a little overkill but will certainly get you there. If anything I would rev it out a bit further, thats where 5.3 shines. Ive run the 88 as well, just a tad lazier but gets the job done. They have an 85 that will get the job done as well and spool just a tad faster. They have a dual vband for the 88/96 housing that is lighter, easier fitment, and quicker spool as well.
I rev them well over 7, but its not for everyone. Ive had good results on the 84 and 85’s, but I’ve also seen a billet 76 with larger turbine housing lay down 1000 so just depends what you really want out of it and how you want it to respond. Personally I’m a fan of big cams, big turbines, big rpm for big results. Theres a reason why all the record setting 5.3’s are over 8k. You might not be after a record but if you set it up to breath it’ll reward you.
I rev them well over 7, but its not for everyone. Ive had good results on the 84 and 85’s, but I’ve also seen a billet 76 with larger turbine housing lay down 1000 so just depends what you really want out of it and how you want it to respond. Personally I’m a fan of big cams, big turbines, big rpm for big results. Theres a reason why all the record setting 5.3’s are over 8k. You might not be after a record but if you set it up to breath it’ll reward you.
I have a customer 1968 f100, l33, btr intake, vsr 88, summit stage 2 cam, th400, 3.73, ultimate converter concept converter, terminator x, if the converter is right it won’t be to laggy at all
Most setups are very simple for your typical 8 sec street car with stock rockers w/trunnion upgrade, LS7 lifters, and BTR dual springs. Has proven very durable as most like that are going on 3+ years of 7800+ without issue. I've tried fancier parts but generally have more issues with them then its worth, when I tried beehives they broke at high RPM, tried fancy lifters and they stuck collapsed, so not the best luck for me. Rather keep it simple, give it boost and send it.
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Do you already have the VSR 80? The bigger the compressor is compared to the Exh. wheel, the more lazy it will be. Its just the nature of turbos. It's a leverage thing. The exh. wheel will only support so much power... So jumping up to a massive compressor will only help so much. No reason to run a massive 88mm wheel if the turbine can't keep up. Esp. with a smaller motor. A 5.3 doesn't need an 88 to support 1000hp. Using that turbo is a poor choice IMO. I feel the VSR turbo line falls a little short of the genuine Borg line as well. (nothing against the VSR stuff, its great for the cost) The genuine cast t6 S480 is the same cost roughly and has made 1000+ numerous times. It will out spool and perform the S488 VSR on a small engine with your power goal IMO.
I'd want want your compression up as well to help spool the larger turbo and make more power in general. Might look into selling your 243 heads. They tend to go for $400-500 here. You can get a set of 706's cheap. (my last set was $50) Have them setup with a decent valve job and mild port. You'll have a head that flows well and the added compression without sacrificing any deck thickness.
I'd also look into a nice dual spring setup and revving it out to 7500 with your goals at least. What's a "3200 stall" ? Brand? how does it act on the shift? Slip % currently? you really don't want the RPM falling below 5500 ever on an SBE at 1000whp levels IMO. I feel like your cam choices will make more TQ where you don't want it and less HP where you do want it. Better choices out there if you are changing things.
LS6 intake isn't really optimum for what your doing either.
I'd want want your compression up as well to help spool the larger turbo and make more power in general. Might look into selling your 243 heads. They tend to go for $400-500 here. You can get a set of 706's cheap. (my last set was $50) Have them setup with a decent valve job and mild port. You'll have a head that flows well and the added compression without sacrificing any deck thickness.
I'd also look into a nice dual spring setup and revving it out to 7500 with your goals at least. What's a "3200 stall" ? Brand? how does it act on the shift? Slip % currently? you really don't want the RPM falling below 5500 ever on an SBE at 1000whp levels IMO. I feel like your cam choices will make more TQ where you don't want it and less HP where you do want it. Better choices out there if you are changing things.
LS6 intake isn't really optimum for what your doing either.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Oct 27, 2020 at 09:21 AM.
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Verdad Gallardo I feel the VSR turbo line falls a little short of the genuine Borg line as well. (nothing against the VSR stuff, its great for the cost) The genuine cast t6 S480 is the same cost roughly and has made 1000+ numerous times. It will out spool and perform the S488 VSR on a small engine with your power goal IMO.
I don't think that's entirely true, the VSR 80 spools very well and I've made over 1000whp @ 25lbs of boost so its right in the same league as the Borg line. Borg shows as $1200 currently, the VSR is $750, you can also get the dual vband turbine version from VSR for under $1000 and have lighter weight and faster spool.
The highest VSR 80mm dyno I've heard of was matt happels and that was with a healthy shot nitrous. And he never ran it at that power level. I've seen multiple 1050ish cast S480 dynos. And that's on the 1.32 T6. Many run the 1.58 and pick up a bit as well. The highest VSR S480 on boost alone I've seen was making 880ish. (not to say others haven't done more, thats just what Ive seen)
Yet the heavy hitter cast S480 guys are going much quicker than I've seen a VSR 80mm unit go. That "Honk if parts fall Off" Was running 8.3x @ 164 at 3600lbs on drag week with a cast out of the box 80. (1200+ by weight/trap?)
Forced inductions T6 cast S480 is $899. (and I've seen them cheaper) Last I looked the VSR 88 was priced the same. And I haven't seen any times out of it that rival the cast S480. Main point being that they routinely make 1000+ and would be much less lazy for the same cost. If he already has the VSR s480 I'd see what I could get out of it.
I ran the VSR S480 myself. Great unit for the $, but I wasn't making/wanting 1000whp.
That's the way I feel about auto cars... its like masturbating cuz you arent doing the real thing. 
Your welcome to leg hump Borgs all you want I just dont think they are that great, but I also wont deal with Forced Inductions (lots of skeletons in the closet there) so to each their own. You just defined why dyno's are nice, as its hard to compare the ET from an optimized solid axle drag car to a IRS street car so is what it is I guess. If you ever switch to Garrett you will think Borgs are junk too as they do everything better, always something nicer if you spend more. We saw a recent test of these so called slow spooling junk chinese turbos, they made enough power to trap 190 on a 7.7 pass which is pretty decent for a manual car, believe thats a record of some sort for Moore HP. Especially cool when everyone else in that class is running fancy Precisions, Borgs, Garretts and the taiwanese spool boys seemed to keep up just fine.
The highest VSR 80mm dyno I've heard of was matt happels and that was with a healthy shot nitrous. And he never ran it at that power level. I've seen multiple 1050ish cast S480 dynos. And that's on the 1.32 T6. Many run the 1.58 and pick up a bit as well. The highest VSR S480 on boost alone I've seen was making 880ish. (not to say others haven't done more, thats just what Ive seen) Yet the heavy hitter cast S480 guys are going much quicker than I've seen a VSR 80mm unit go. That "Honk if parts fall Off" Was running 8.3x @ 164 at 3600lbs on drag week with a cast out of the box 80. (1200+ by weight/trap?) Forced inductions T6 cast S480 is $899. (and I've seen them cheaper) Last I looked the VSR 88 was priced the same. And I haven't seen any times out of it that rival the cast S480. Main point being that they routinely make 1000+ and would be much less lazy for the same cost. If he already has the VSR s480 I'd see what I could get out of it. I ran the VSR S480 myself. Great unit for the $, but I wasn't making/wanting 1000whp.
I take dyno graphs with a grain of salt... As I've seen some pretty healthy numbers do diddly at the track.
The highest VSR 80mm dyno I've heard of was matt happels and that was with a healthy shot nitrous. And he never ran it at that power level. I've seen multiple 1050ish cast S480 dynos. And that's on the 1.32 T6. Many run the 1.58 and pick up a bit as well. The highest VSR S480 on boost alone I've seen was making 880ish. (not to say others haven't done more, thats just what Ive seen)
Yet the heavy hitter cast S480 guys are going much quicker than I've seen a VSR 80mm unit go. That "Honk if parts fall Off" Was running 8.3x @ 164 at 3600lbs on drag week with a cast out of the box 80. (1200+ by weight/trap?)
Forced inductions T6 cast S480 is $899. (and I've seen them cheaper) Last I looked the VSR 88 was priced the same. And I haven't seen any times out of it that rival the cast S480. Main point being that they routinely make 1000+ and would be much less lazy for the same cost. If he already has the VSR s480 I'd see what I could get out of it.
I ran the VSR S480 myself. Great unit for the $, but I wasn't making/wanting 1000whp.
The highest VSR 80mm dyno I've heard of was matt happels and that was with a healthy shot nitrous. And he never ran it at that power level. I've seen multiple 1050ish cast S480 dynos. And that's on the 1.32 T6. Many run the 1.58 and pick up a bit as well. The highest VSR S480 on boost alone I've seen was making 880ish. (not to say others haven't done more, thats just what Ive seen)
Yet the heavy hitter cast S480 guys are going much quicker than I've seen a VSR 80mm unit go. That "Honk if parts fall Off" Was running 8.3x @ 164 at 3600lbs on drag week with a cast out of the box 80. (1200+ by weight/trap?)
Forced inductions T6 cast S480 is $899. (and I've seen them cheaper) Last I looked the VSR 88 was priced the same. And I haven't seen any times out of it that rival the cast S480. Main point being that they routinely make 1000+ and would be much less lazy for the same cost. If he already has the VSR s480 I'd see what I could get out of it.
I ran the VSR S480 myself. Great unit for the $, but I wasn't making/wanting 1000whp.
That's the way I feel about auto cars... its like masturbating cuz you arent doing the real thing.
Your welcome to leg hump Borgs all you want I just dont think they are that great, but I also wont deal with Forced Inductions (lots of skeletons in the closet there) so to each their own. You just defined why dyno's are nice, as its hard to compare the ET from an optimized solid axle drag car to a IRS street car so is what it is I guess. If you ever switch to Garrett you will think Borgs are junk too as they do everything better, always something nicer if you spend more. We saw a recent test of these so called slow spooling junk chinese turbos, they made enough power to trap 190 on a 7.7 pass which is pretty decent for a manual car, believe thats a record of some sort for Moore HP. Especially cool when everyone else in that class is running fancy Precisions, Borgs, Garretts and the taiwanese spool boys seemed to keep up just fine.
Your welcome to leg hump Borgs all you want I just dont think they are that great, but I also wont deal with Forced Inductions (lots of skeletons in the closet there) so to each their own. You just defined why dyno's are nice, as its hard to compare the ET from an optimized solid axle drag car to a IRS street car so is what it is I guess. If you ever switch to Garrett you will think Borgs are junk too as they do everything better, always something nicer if you spend more. We saw a recent test of these so called slow spooling junk chinese turbos, they made enough power to trap 190 on a 7.7 pass which is pretty decent for a manual car, believe thats a record of some sort for Moore HP. Especially cool when everyone else in that class is running fancy Precisions, Borgs, Garretts and the taiwanese spool boys seemed to keep up just fine.
Pairing an 88mm wheel to an 86mm exh wheel when you want the best response at 1000hp doesn't make sense. If the goals 1000 and you can do it with an 80/87 wheel, Why in the world would you go to an 88/87 wheel? When does it stop? Will we have a 94/86 next? People think bigger is better and that's not always the case. The bigger compressors work up to a point, but larger gains are seen when the turbine is upgraded, or more efficient wheels/housings are used. No one is stating a China turbo is crap, or can't run numbers. I'm saying a cast S480 in my experience out performs a china billet S480 and would meet his goal. While the S488 seems like overkill and a bad design by nature.
I had an 80 but sold it to a buddy. A few of my friends run VSR 85s and 88s on 5.3s.. granted some of those cars are light foxbodys but still. Also that 3200 stall is a 9.5" converter from FTI. Was planning on changing out my gears to a lower (numerically) gear.. looking at 3.00s or even 2.75s so those turbos can spool. ive seen a few cars with ls6 intakes in the 1000 hp range, along with cars that run 243 heads.. i had 706s but id take ported 243s over stock 706s any day.. still havent chosen a cam but the ss2 is proven to work fine but I see what you are saying.
The ls6 won't stop you from making power but it targets the wrong area you want to make power in with a 1000 HP SBE setup. You want to make all your power past 5500...or more. Tall gears and long runner intakes and baby cams all do the exact opposite. All the parts you mention will "work", they just won't work well and keep the engine healthy. If you read and do a little research you'll see why the 706's outperform the 243's in many cases. Esp. on budget builds. Guys are making well over 1200hp on untouched 706's. Again bigger is not always better.
Not a matter of leg humping, its a matter of using the best tool for the stated goals. Esp. if they are the same price. Clones are more in my personal price range, but budgets vary widely. I just picked up two of the cheap billet 78/75's for my next project. But I won't pretend a set of S366's or some Precision 64's wouldn't out perform them hands down. Its all budget dependent. Borg are proven performers at the mid price range, its fact not favoritism.
Pairing an 88mm wheel to an 86mm exh wheel when you want the best response at 1000hp doesn't make sense. If the goals 1000 and you can do it with an 80/87 wheel, Why in the world would you go to an 88/87 wheel? When does it stop? Will we have a 94/86 next? People think bigger is better and that's not always the case. The bigger compressors work up to a point, but larger gains are seen when the turbine is upgraded, or more efficient wheels/housings are used. No one is stating a China turbo is crap, or can't run numbers. I'm saying a cast S480 in my experience out performs a china billet S480 and would meet his goal. While the S488 seems like overkill and a bad design by nature.
Pairing an 88mm wheel to an 86mm exh wheel when you want the best response at 1000hp doesn't make sense. If the goals 1000 and you can do it with an 80/87 wheel, Why in the world would you go to an 88/87 wheel? When does it stop? Will we have a 94/86 next? People think bigger is better and that's not always the case. The bigger compressors work up to a point, but larger gains are seen when the turbine is upgraded, or more efficient wheels/housings are used. No one is stating a China turbo is crap, or can't run numbers. I'm saying a cast S480 in my experience out performs a china billet S480 and would meet his goal. While the S488 seems like overkill and a bad design by nature.
88 compressor to an 88 turbine wheel but yes same basic principle, still too small either way. The way I think the goal is always punted down the road, if they want 1000 they really want 1200, because when you are at the track and its on the border of cracking a number they always want to turn it up so you may as well factor in room to turn it when needed. Personally I think even a 94/112 wheel on a 5.3 isn't enough, it still wants to breath and spools up just fine and will make power past 8000 where most of these baby 88/96 turbines give up smoke. We picked up silly power moving up from the Borg 91/100 to a GTX55 102/112 turbine, could make the same power on 10lbs less boost and was immediately apparent at the track when it trapped 160MPH on gate.
The converter will never couple a 2.73 properly. It will hang at a silly low rpm and try to "catch up" the entire time. Trust me it's the route I ran and fought for years. You want RPM, not gear at 4 digit power levels.
The ls6 won't stop you from making power but it targets the wrong area you want to make power in with a 1000 HP SBE setup. You want to make all your power past 5500...or more. Tall gears and long runner intakes and baby cams all do the exact opposite. All the parts you mention will "work", they just won't work well and keep the engine healthy. If you read and do a little research you'll see why the 706's outperform the 243's in many cases. Esp. on budget builds. Guys are making well over 1200hp on untouched 706's. Again bigger is not always better.
The ls6 won't stop you from making power but it targets the wrong area you want to make power in with a 1000 HP SBE setup. You want to make all your power past 5500...or more. Tall gears and long runner intakes and baby cams all do the exact opposite. All the parts you mention will "work", they just won't work well and keep the engine healthy. If you read and do a little research you'll see why the 706's outperform the 243's in many cases. Esp. on budget builds. Guys are making well over 1200hp on untouched 706's. Again bigger is not always better.
If you want max effort gear the car to cross the stripe at peak power/rpm, anything else will be slower. 7000RPM in 1:1 gear on a 28 gets you ~165MPH minus converter slip. Do you want to be there or faster? Typically a 3500-3600lb car will easily flex an 8.50 cage cert @165MPH with an honest 1000whp. Done that with everything from a 76mm to an 94mm just boost level varies.
My setup is a 370 tfs235 heads holley hi ram intake custom cam th400 9.5 ptc converter 3.50 rear gear s488mm turbo 100mm exhaust wheel. Been 8.22@166 in the 1/4 witch is what the car is setup for. Makes 1136hp
I did a roll racing event with a 60mph start it went 171mph. I started the pull in 2nd gear and it still a little lazy. I even started to brake boost the car to a couple psi it helped but still lazy. The car dead hooked very time and was happy with the mph.
I did a roll racing event with a 60mph start it went 171mph. I started the pull in 2nd gear and it still a little lazy. I even started to brake boost the car to a couple psi it helped but still lazy. The car dead hooked very time and was happy with the mph.
My setup is a 370 tfs235 heads holley hi ram intake custom cam th400 9.5 ptc converter 3.50 rear gear s488mm turbo 100mm exhaust wheel. Been 8.22@166 in the 1/4 witch is what the car is setup for. Makes 1136hp
I did a roll racing event with a 60mph start it went 171mph. I started the pull in 2nd gear and it still a little lazy. I even started to brake boost the car to a couple psi it helped but still lazy. The car dead hooked very time and was happy with the mph.
I did a roll racing event with a 60mph start it went 171mph. I started the pull in 2nd gear and it still a little lazy. I even started to brake boost the car to a couple psi it helped but still lazy. The car dead hooked very time and was happy with the mph.
Might try the early next year if so I want the tuner to add that into the holley ecu they for 180mph