Using a radiator as a heat exhanger
Using a radiator as a heat exhanger I'm about to start my LSA supercharger install on my LQ4 Chevelle (LSA heads, LS9 cam).
I've been debating heat exchangers for a while trying to think of one that'll fit and be large enough. A lot of them are designed for specific applications (ZL1 camaros, cobras, ect) and are pretty spendy for someone who can tig weld. I've been considering getting a cheap aftermarket VW golf dual pass radiator (Like this one), welding the large ports closed and welding on some say -12an bungs. Has anyone seen this done or am I missing any good reason not to do this? I have tons of room between my engine and radiator so I'll probably modify my upper and lower radiator mounts to move the radiator back a couple inches and to give me a place to mount the heat exchanger in front of the engine radiator. I plan on running vintage air on the car in the future, but that mounts to the front of the core support so I think mounting the heat exchanger in the middle wouldn't interfere with the condenser kit.
I've been debating heat exchangers for a while trying to think of one that'll fit and be large enough. A lot of them are designed for specific applications (ZL1 camaros, cobras, ect) and are pretty spendy for someone who can tig weld. I've been considering getting a cheap aftermarket VW golf dual pass radiator (Like this one), welding the large ports closed and welding on some say -12an bungs. Has anyone seen this done or am I missing any good reason not to do this? I have tons of room between my engine and radiator so I'll probably modify my upper and lower radiator mounts to move the radiator back a couple inches and to give me a place to mount the heat exchanger in front of the engine radiator. I plan on running vintage air on the car in the future, but that mounts to the front of the core support so I think mounting the heat exchanger in the middle wouldn't interfere with the condenser kit.
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That radiator would work fine. Honestly heat exchanger behind the condenser is a bad idea. It should be in front so you can keep the water for the intercooler as cold as possible. Most folks would be surprised how hot a condenser gets when the ac is functioning.
That's a good point I've been thinking about. I wasn't sure how hot they got as I've seen a few of the older muscle cars people put heat exchangers in where they put the condenser in front. But it looks like the ZL1's ran the heat exchanger in front right?
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Honda radiators are also on my watchlist. I liked the VW golf radiators since they're dual pass and I don't need\want the fill cap on the honda radiators. Dual pass makes my hose routing simpler and I'd imagine should be a bit more effective for the same size.
I'd do an ice box in the trunk if it was just for drag racing, but this is more of a pro-touring style car (315/35-17 tires, huge sway bars, ATS spindles, ect). I'm trying to sort out the radiator, heat exchanger, a possible AC condenser, oil cooler and small power steering cooler in the front of a brick of a '69 chevelle.
Sorting out an AC cooler however the demon works is beyond the R&D I want to deal with figuring out.
I'd do an ice box in the trunk if it was just for drag racing, but this is more of a pro-touring style car (315/35-17 tires, huge sway bars, ATS spindles, ect). I'm trying to sort out the radiator, heat exchanger, a possible AC condenser, oil cooler and small power steering cooler in the front of a brick of a '69 chevelle.
Sorting out an AC cooler however the demon works is beyond the R&D I want to deal with figuring out.
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Verdad Gallardo Honda radiators are also on my watchlist. I liked the VW golf radiators since they're dual pass and I don't need\want the fill cap on the honda radiators. Dual pass makes my hose routing simpler and I'd imagine should be a bit more effective for the same size.
I'd do an ice box in the trunk if it was just for drag racing, but this is more of a pro-touring style car (315/35-17 tires, huge sway bars, ATS spindles, ect). I'm trying to sort out the radiator, heat exchanger, a possible AC condenser, oil cooler and small power steering cooler in the front of a brick of a '69 chevelle.
Sorting out an AC cooler however the demon works is beyond the R&D I want to deal with figuring out.
I'd do an ice box in the trunk if it was just for drag racing, but this is more of a pro-touring style car (315/35-17 tires, huge sway bars, ATS spindles, ect). I'm trying to sort out the radiator, heat exchanger, a possible AC condenser, oil cooler and small power steering cooler in the front of a brick of a '69 chevelle.
Sorting out an AC cooler however the demon works is beyond the R&D I want to deal with figuring out.
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Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
Any decent sized slim rad would work fine. For a street car, no reason not to do it like that as keeping a valley mounted blower can be much harder than other styles simply because it's sitting in the middle of a roasting engine all the time.
But some sensible flow control will help too as to when water is circulated etc
But some sensible flow control will help too as to when water is circulated etc
On The Tree
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 146
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From: Sioux Falls, SD
I'm not talking about ice. I'm stating to just use plain ambient temp water in a 5 gallon tank. Only circulate the fluid when your in boost. It still does a GREAT job of intercooling (better than most A2A units) without all the fuss of a heat exchanger or messing with any of that other stuff. How much boost are you going to run and for how long? Heat exchanger setups really aren't needed in my experience is the point. Keep it simple. You aren't going to heat up 5 gallons of water very quickly and you won't be in boost for more than a few seconds.
Just make sure that you run big lines for adequate flow/volume.
I was surprised how good the IAT's are with no intercooler.
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
I know this question wasn't aimed at me, but we use the Craig Davis water pump(looks like a baby turbo) with a ice box in the trunk, no intercooler on our TT Coyote.
Just make sure that you run big lines for adequate flow/volume.
I was surprised how good the IAT's are with no intercooler.
Just make sure that you run big lines for adequate flow/volume.
I was surprised how good the IAT's are with no intercooler.
But for anything longer duration, multiple passes...having no means to cool the water makes no sense.
And trying to compare turbo or centri setups with a remote A2W unit is pointless compared to a valley mounted core which is always subject to engine heat.
Back in my old Super Stock days, we used a cool can-just a loop of alumn. fuel line in a can filled with ice. Of course we had carbs, so no hi pressure. Always wondered if something like that with larger lines would help. There was one guy who used it on his return line, cooling the fuel to the tank. I made a street A/W system, used a heat exchanger off a Ford Lightening, a pump, small water tank. I figured I could dump some ice in if I ran it, but the tank wouldnt be large enough to really cool it. Prob better to have a stable temp vs one constantly changing going down the track.
Always wondered if those barrow IC'er did much, kind of compact.
Always wondered if those barrow IC'er did much, kind of compact.
I'm not talking about ice. I'm stating to just use plain ambient temp water in a 5 gallon tank. Only circulate the fluid when your in boost. It still does a GREAT job of intercooling (better than most A2A units) without all the fuss of a heat exchanger or messing with any of that other stuff. How much boost are you going to run and for how long? Heat exchanger setups really aren't needed in my experience is the point. Keep it simple. You aren't going to heat up 5 gallons of water very quickly and you won't be in boost for more than a few seconds.
On short single runs, probably not an issue.
But for anything longer duration, multiple passes...having no means to cool the water makes no sense.
And trying to compare turbo or centri setups with a remote A2W unit is pointless compared to a valley mounted core which is always subject to engine heat.
But for anything longer duration, multiple passes...having no means to cool the water makes no sense.
And trying to compare turbo or centri setups with a remote A2W unit is pointless compared to a valley mounted core which is always subject to engine heat.
Guessing a mild factory cam'd 6.0 with an LSA probably won't put 20* into 5 gallons in one run.
And even so... what does that do to charge temps as a whole between runs? How much will a heat exchanger really help?
Maybe a simple small trans cooler with a FAN tapped into the 5 gal tank... But a civic radiator? Just seems overkill.
And even so... what does that do to charge temps as a whole between runs? How much will a heat exchanger really help?
Maybe a simple small trans cooler with a FAN tapped into the 5 gal tank... But a civic radiator? Just seems overkill.
9 Second Club
Joined: Nov 2003
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From: Norn Iron
Guessing a mild factory cam'd 6.0 with an LSA probably won't put 20* into 5 gallons in one run.
And even so... what does that do to charge temps as a whole between runs? How much will a heat exchanger really help?
Maybe a simple small trans cooler with a FAN tapped into the 5 gal tank... But a civic radiator? Just seems overkill.
And even so... what does that do to charge temps as a whole between runs? How much will a heat exchanger really help?
Maybe a simple small trans cooler with a FAN tapped into the 5 gal tank... But a civic radiator? Just seems overkill.
A water box will cool almost zero.
A front rad will be able to cool a fair amount.
And why would a cheap, decent sized rad be overkill ? With a decent sized rad, which adds volume to the system, only a small reservoir would be needed.
Less plumbing, less weight, less hassle, more efficient.
My point/question was...
If the water isn't circulated and its sitting in a 5 gal tank in the trunk while driving. Its not absorbing the manifold or bay heat. Sure the water in the core will, but that's a relatively small volume of fluid. Then when you did get into boost and kick the pump on... It would still be able to cool quite well.
If you have the fluid circulating constantly, its constantly picking up heat over time. How much is really removed from the exchanger? Esp. if a small tank is used? Woudl be interesting to see which worked better on the say 1st 2nd and 3rd pull... How often are you doing back to back pulls as well?
The radiator is huge for one. Even the honda cores are massive. Large lines, plumbing difficulties, packaging difficulties, weight, etc. I'd like to see a comparison is all I'm saying. I'm sure a full on giant *** radiator will pull some heat. But the OEM setups don't use anything like that.
If the water isn't circulated and its sitting in a 5 gal tank in the trunk while driving. Its not absorbing the manifold or bay heat. Sure the water in the core will, but that's a relatively small volume of fluid. Then when you did get into boost and kick the pump on... It would still be able to cool quite well.
If you have the fluid circulating constantly, its constantly picking up heat over time. How much is really removed from the exchanger? Esp. if a small tank is used? Woudl be interesting to see which worked better on the say 1st 2nd and 3rd pull... How often are you doing back to back pulls as well?
The radiator is huge for one. Even the honda cores are massive. Large lines, plumbing difficulties, packaging difficulties, weight, etc. I'd like to see a comparison is all I'm saying. I'm sure a full on giant *** radiator will pull some heat. But the OEM setups don't use anything like that.
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From: Norn Iron
OEM setups that use a water chargecooler do have a large frontal rad. Of course they can always be made larger though.
And if you can fit an A2A with 3" pipes up front, you'd need to be pretty "special" if you couldn't manage a small water rad with small hoses. If anything it is a lot easier.
And maybe he intends to drive the **** out of it ? Not just short drag blasts.
But yes, some sensible control over water flow makes sense. But even if you did flow water all the time...with front rad, it is also getting cooled all the time.
With a static tank and no rad....the water is never getting cooled. Which for a road application seems utterly pointless. And for a road application with a core bolted directly to a roasting hot engine....is probably the worst way you could do it with the exception of no cooler at all.
Seems dead simple to me ?
Drag use only where you only do a few runs over a day and have access to ice. Go for a tank and no cooler.
Everything else, it's so easy to fit a cooler, why wouldnt you ?
And if you can fit an A2A with 3" pipes up front, you'd need to be pretty "special" if you couldn't manage a small water rad with small hoses. If anything it is a lot easier.
And maybe he intends to drive the **** out of it ? Not just short drag blasts.
But yes, some sensible control over water flow makes sense. But even if you did flow water all the time...with front rad, it is also getting cooled all the time.
With a static tank and no rad....the water is never getting cooled. Which for a road application seems utterly pointless. And for a road application with a core bolted directly to a roasting hot engine....is probably the worst way you could do it with the exception of no cooler at all.
Seems dead simple to me ?
Drag use only where you only do a few runs over a day and have access to ice. Go for a tank and no cooler.
Everything else, it's so easy to fit a cooler, why wouldnt you ?