Water cooled turbos?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,265
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From: Bolton Masshole
Water cooled turbos? Anyone know why all sorts of new turbos have both oil and water cooled center cartriges? Ive been looking at Garrett GTX series and the new Turbonetics C15 series of ball bearing turbos and both have water cooling provisions. I'd really rather not run 4 lines to each turbo in my setup if I can avoid it. Are these new water cooled "capable" turbos requiring water? Or is it more an option to lengthen the life of the bearings? Anyone have any experience?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 18
From: Bolton Masshole
Thats what im asking. This is going to be a street car with a 363ci gen 4 LS. Im wondering if these turbos are coming with these water ports as an optional cooling option, or if they are required and the turbo will immediately burn up without them. My guess is they are optional since turbos have been oil only cooled for years, but wasnt sure what everyone else thought.
Pretty sure the water and oil cooled CHRA require both. Oil only and water only are also options. Water helps keep the bearings cool and helps prevent oil coking after turning the motor off.
Honestly I really want to try those water only turbos. No oil drain to consider so those things can be mounted anywhere facing any direction (inlet straight up).
Honestly I really want to try those water only turbos. No oil drain to consider so those things can be mounted anywhere facing any direction (inlet straight up).
When I bought my Garretts I also assumed the water cooling was for during run time. But I found a white paper on garretts site explaining it. Below is the excerpt that caught my attention as it seems to be more for after shutoff when there is no oil to cool, which makes sense. Read the paper, it is good reading. Also it explains in the paper how to orient the water ports so the rising heat creates a siphon and water actually flows without the water pump running after shutdown.. interesting stuff and its why they design turbos and most of us don't... my 2 cents I like things simple but don't like doing things a second time due to failure so if it has them use them, I intend to. I think it seems logical it would be good for longevity.
While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals. Once the engine is shut down, the oil flow stops and so does the exhaust gas flow through the turbine – but all of that heat stored by the exhaust manifold and turbine housing still remains. This heat must go somewhere. Its only escape paths are either to be transferred via conduction into the turbo’s center section and the exhaust downpipe, or to radiate into the surrounding air under the hood. A small amount of heat will be transferred to the surrounding air via radiation and convection, but the great majority will conduct from the turbine housing into the center housing, since the center housing is at a lower temperature. Additionally, some of the heat will travel from the turbine wheel into the shaft and out towards the bearing system.
While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals. Once the engine is shut down, the oil flow stops and so does the exhaust gas flow through the turbine – but all of that heat stored by the exhaust manifold and turbine housing still remains. This heat must go somewhere. Its only escape paths are either to be transferred via conduction into the turbo’s center section and the exhaust downpipe, or to radiate into the surrounding air under the hood. A small amount of heat will be transferred to the surrounding air via radiation and convection, but the great majority will conduct from the turbine housing into the center housing, since the center housing is at a lower temperature. Additionally, some of the heat will travel from the turbine wheel into the shaft and out towards the bearing system.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 18
From: Bolton Masshole
When I bought my Garretts I also assumed the water cooling was for during run time. But I found a white paper on garretts site explaining it. Below is the excerpt that caught my attention as it seems to be more for after shutoff when there is no oil to cool, which makes sense. Read the paper, it is good reading. Also it explains in the paper how to orient the water ports so the rising heat creates a siphon and water actually flows without the water pump running after shutdown.. interesting stuff and its why they design turbos and most of us don't... my 2 cents I like things simple but don't like doing things a second time due to failure so if it has them use them, I intend to. I think it seems logical it would be good for longevity.
While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals. Once the engine is shut down, the oil flow stops and so does the exhaust gas flow through the turbine – but all of that heat stored by the exhaust manifold and turbine housing still remains. This heat must go somewhere. Its only escape paths are either to be transferred via conduction into the turbo’s center section and the exhaust downpipe, or to radiate into the surrounding air under the hood. A small amount of heat will be transferred to the surrounding air via radiation and convection, but the great majority will conduct from the turbine housing into the center housing, since the center housing is at a lower temperature. Additionally, some of the heat will travel from the turbine wheel into the shaft and out towards the bearing system.
While the engine is running and oil is flowing through the turbo’s bearing system, most of the transferred heat will be absorbed by the oil, preventing damage to the bearings and oil seals. Once the engine is shut down, the oil flow stops and so does the exhaust gas flow through the turbine – but all of that heat stored by the exhaust manifold and turbine housing still remains. This heat must go somewhere. Its only escape paths are either to be transferred via conduction into the turbo’s center section and the exhaust downpipe, or to radiate into the surrounding air under the hood. A small amount of heat will be transferred to the surrounding air via radiation and convection, but the great majority will conduct from the turbine housing into the center housing, since the center housing is at a lower temperature. Additionally, some of the heat will travel from the turbine wheel into the shaft and out towards the bearing system.
Might be worth a call to a few of these companies.
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This is my point. I cant seem to find any turbos on garretts website that ARENT water cooler CHRA. Do they not exist anymore?
I read the same article and I totally get it, but my point is ball bearing turbos have been around for years without water cooling, so is it all of a sudden required? I know Garrett is an OEM so they go after OEM reliability. If i want to get 150k miles out of the turbo thats fine i'll run water cooling but if this is a weekend warrior that might see 10k miles in the next 5 years im wondering if the water cooling is absolutely required.
Might be worth a call to a few of these companies.
I read the same article and I totally get it, but my point is ball bearing turbos have been around for years without water cooling, so is it all of a sudden required? I know Garrett is an OEM so they go after OEM reliability. If i want to get 150k miles out of the turbo thats fine i'll run water cooling but if this is a weekend warrior that might see 10k miles in the next 5 years im wondering if the water cooling is absolutely required.
Might be worth a call to a few of these companies.
I ended up buying Garrett because I read too many complaints about PT reliability and my last turbo seemed to like smoking.. For me I figure I can put it on and forget it, just drive it.. I probably don't put a few thousand miles a year on it so same boat as you, but will take an hour or so to run some water lines, figure that is better than embarrassing smoke in my rear view
Why are they doing it now? I assume they learned something over time. As our ability to gather data gets better we learn alot, heck that's why we can put 1300hp to a stock bottom end LS these days... At the end of the day my guess is if you leave them un-plumbed they will probably last just fine I would think. If not you know the next time 
This is my point. I cant seem to find any turbos on garretts website that ARENT water cooler CHRA. Do they not exist anymore?
I read the same article and I totally get it, but my point is ball bearing turbos have been around for years without water cooling, so is it all of a sudden required? I know Garrett is an OEM so they go after OEM reliability. If i want to get 150k miles out of the turbo thats fine i'll run water cooling but if this is a weekend warrior that might see 10k miles in the next 5 years im wondering if the water cooling is absolutely required.
Might be worth a call to a few of these companies.
I read the same article and I totally get it, but my point is ball bearing turbos have been around for years without water cooling, so is it all of a sudden required? I know Garrett is an OEM so they go after OEM reliability. If i want to get 150k miles out of the turbo thats fine i'll run water cooling but if this is a weekend warrior that might see 10k miles in the next 5 years im wondering if the water cooling is absolutely required.
Might be worth a call to a few of these companies.
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,265
Likes: 18
From: Bolton Masshole
Well I just ordered 2, so yes.
But as I stated earlier in the thread, it seems almost all manufacturers are moving towards it. Even VS racing has a water cooling port on my 6766s, yet they tell me they are npt required. I'll let you know how these garrets hold up haha.
But as I stated earlier in the thread, it seems almost all manufacturers are moving towards it. Even VS racing has a water cooling port on my 6766s, yet they tell me they are npt required. I'll let you know how these garrets hold up haha.
IIRC from my offshore power boat days, water cooled turbos are a must for heat management where the engines are enclosed in a fiberglass hull. I think it was even a Coast Guard regulation or something. Most engines were supercharged though.