What can I expect from this set up? It’s the vengeance racing f1x that came off the first c6 to go 200+ in the half mile. Will be going in a full weight 86 cutlass with an ls 403 forged block and cnc ls3 heads. Will be ran on pump e85 and will go through a th350 (until it grenades) and a built 8.5 grand national rear end (haven’t decided on gearing yet) car will be mostly street driven with some track days sprinkled in. My builder said I don’t need to run an intercooler and I’ve seen posts for and against it. What are your thoughts?

 

I would most definitely use an intercooler with that blower on a mostly street driven car with e85 as fuel.

 

That's a 1300hp race blower. For sure an intercooler unless you are running straight methanol which you aren't since it's a street car. Some people run meth injection with a setup like yours, and that would work great with a centri and keep things cool and keep the car from pulling timing. A friend at the track has a meth injection kit on his mustang with a paxton blower, and the kits nowadays are pretty fool proof. That and an air to air intercooler and you'd be set up pretty good I would think. Air to water works well, but they are more complicated. Our hellcat has an air to water intercooler and a heat exchanger, and then I added a much bigger heat exchanger and it still will heat soak by the end of day at the track, after 6 or 8 runs or so, even with 45 minutes between each run, 1/8 mile.

I'd make cooling a priority. Also, figure out how to get heat out of the engine bay. I would use ceramic coated headers. Makes a huge difference with under hood temps. And some kind of hood venting.

That thing is going to be a total beast. Start saving up for a TH400 and 9".

 

thanks for the input! I thought I’d need an intercooler too but he was pretty confident I’d be alright. I trust my builder and he said he’s got plenty of low 8 cars running the grand national 8.5” 10 bolt and they’re holding up fine. I’m praying to get one season with the th350 then plan I moving to a th400. Hoping to get this pig into the 8.7 range

 

It just depends on how often you abuse it and how hard you hit it off the line. You can get by without an intercooler, but at the track you will need a lot of cool down time, but the centri blowers are much better with that probably. I've never run a centri, but if I had the money, I would have gotten a D1-X procharger for my mustang, but instead I am going turbo as it's cheaper and will just be fun to do.

A lot of guys are just hitting the track for test and tune or whatever and so they have lots of cool down time and they aren't needing to be really consistent.

That blower, a converter, and gears will get you there, if you have your suspension sorted out.

You can always add an intercooler later, too, if you find you have heat problems. You don't live where it's insane hot, so that helps. I know that I would just do the intercooler right off the bat if it were me. No sense in having all that power and then your ecu pulling timing due to your IATs being high. But also the E85 really will help because it's what like 30% more volume so that helps with cooling too.

 

those were my thoughts exactly. It’ll be mainly street driven track just a couple times a year. Suspension is pretty well sorted. Only thing I’m missing for now are coil overs in the rear but we’re boxing the frame so it shouldn’t twist and roll. It seems like the e85 doesn’t really care about high IAT’s but idk. He said he’d know more once he straps it to a dyno and sees what everything is reading. For what it’s worth this blower and it’s current configuration put down 1467rwhp on a 427 in a c6 vette. Not sure if auto or manual but it’s definitely making some sauce

 

Oh yes, that's a serious blower. A guy at my track runs one and in a 68 camaro, with straight methanol. Insane power.

Your cutlass is a 4 link suspension, right? Do you run lowering brackets that drop the rear mounting point of the lower control arms? You have aftermarket uppers and lowers?

My chevelle had a four link like that, and I put in a anti roll bar and it was amazing. It's different than a sway bar because it attaches to the frame right above the diff, too. They are awesome.

So the coil overs will be double adjustable?

What about on the front? Older cars need front end separation to hook up usually. My chevelle had like 8" of front end separation, iirc.

 

yeah, it’s a 4 link I believe. I have qa1 adjustable upper and lowers along with the anti roll bar. Yes, they’ll be double adjustable coil overs. Not sure on which ones. I would think either qa1 or Viking. I have not touched the front end. I was going to wait to do that. I want redo the entire front end so I was going to wait on that because that’ll be a 5k+ overhaul. Want to at least be able to have some fun with it this upcoming season haha

 

Sounds like a good plan.

 

Carb or EFI?

 

It’s Holley efi

 

First off, say goodbye to your TH350 and 8.5 rear end. We've run more F1x blowers over the years than I can count and the one on my car made right around 1200 rwhp through a non-lockup TH400 on E85 intercooled. That was just over the listed max impeller speed and is pretty typical of these blowers. With a manual it will make another 150-200 rwhp or so. Personally I would run an intercooler of some sorts unless it was running on methanol.

 

I would find a new tuner if they're saying that. Bad advice IMO. F1X is a bad unit. 1600-1700 crank HP with right set up. As outlined above they're proven to 1200-1400 RWHP depending on set up. It's likely enough to blow most of what you have outlined up LOL.

 

Nice. F1X has gone mid 7s it's a badass unit.

Try it without the intercooler and report back.

 

does that mean it’s going to grenade? I trust what my builder says. If he thinks it’ll be right without one then I’ll do it. He’s got multiple Builds in the low 8s so who am I to say he’s full of ****? I’ve voiced my concerns and he seems to believe it can work without an intercooler. He does however not believe in the th350 😂

 

All that intercooling does it cool down the air so we can make more power. So it depends.

I see you are local to me, who are you using?

 

IF you get the car to hook up, the TH350 and rear end will grenade. The motor, etc., isn't going to grenade because the ECU will pull timing if the IATs are a certain temp. That's how our hellcat is, too. The ECU pulls one degree for like every 5 degrees over a certain temperature or something. That car will run in the 1/8 between 6.80 and 7.10 depending on the IAT (I go by the IC coolant temp, and I know what the car will run from that). It's a safety thing with the tuning. It will just result in the motor making less horsepower.

That's how it is with superchargers. All forced induction produces heat. When you compress air, it heats up. People run intercoolers, or meth injection, or E85, or straight methanol because they are trying to keep the intake air temp down so they can have the max power capable for the tune. A centri blower heat soaks less because it is not right on top of the engine, but it's still an issue. Really serious racers who run superchargers will run an ice tank in the trunk that the intercooler coolant circulates through to get it as cold as possible, thereby making the blower as cool as possible and maximizing the performance of the setup.

My friend had a 17 mustang gt with a whipple 3.0 and man did that thing get hot. It had the stock heat exchanger that came with the kit (and those are usually pretty minimal) and he had to wait about an hour to let it cool off between runs. Another guy at the track had a 2011 5.0 with a paxton 2200 and meth injections, and that thing ran great and the meth injection kept it cool and consistent.

 

hot rods house of power out in Joliet!

 

I’m looking for a th400 as we speak. The rear end should be alright for a bit. It’ll be built and it’s not as **** as the 7.5” 10 bolt. It’s a grand national 8.5” 10 bolt. Maybe I’ll look into spray some water meth into it to keep the iat down. I had an 03 e55 amg with a 3.0L whipple on it too. It ran ridiculously hot. Had a trunk tank and upgraded heat exchanger and would boil. It was only on 93 and the iats would be 230+ after a 60-130 pull

 

Is that Jerry Raub?

TH400 is longer so the driveshaft will change too unless you can cut it down. I'm running a rebuilt TH400, RMVB and a VRN driveshaft (Lake Bluff). VRN supplies Strange.