When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
So I'm in stage to figure how to manage my build and who to go for tune and get advice. I'm in northern VA (DC area) where is hard to find knowledgeable/reputable people in this matter. Mostly imports only.
Project is a pro touring 73 Camaro which I've been putting together since 2019. Motor is a LQ4 with forge rod/flat pistons (9.8:1) 0.005 over, cnc ported 317 with dual valve springs, ARP main and head studs, LS9 gaskets, Summit ghost cam. custom hot side and front mounted (in place of battery) billet S476 T4 1.25 AR, LS6 intake, biggest IC I could fit in front, single walbro 450, 6 and 8 fuel lines and a 4L80E, Strange S60 3.54 rear end.
Wanting very good street manners, 700+ RWHP on 93 with meth. Strong Low to mid range power/torque. I have complete ECM, harness, TB, pedal and module (DBW) pulled with the LQ4, also cable TB with LS6 intake. I can modify the harness myself also, but I don't have any experience with HP Tuners or such. Because of this, considering Terminator X Max also (heard is much easier to set it up and run it at least). Either way, still need a place I can trust for further dyno tune, someone who answer their phone and able to fix possible issues with GM ECM or Holley. I'm not clear how boost control and meth injection can possibly work with GM ECM. Holley can do both apparently, some says go Holley, some more say factory ECM will do the job fine.
So yes...lots of tuning stuff need to figure out which I'm not sure about them.
*** FROST around Richmond VA is 2 hours drive from me, Paid $265 for mail in tune and sent him ECM from another motor I built for a friend to be tuned 3 weeks ago. He doesn't answer the phone or email. Don't know if I ever gonna see that ECM again. This was recommended by some members here. At this point I'm really out of clues.
PLEASE ADVICE...
He's not local but Pat G. does all my tuning remotely.
He did my last SBE LS1 six speed car which made 700whp on pump gas only for years, he's doing my big turbo car as we speak, he's excellent.
You'll have to buy the plug in if you don't have HP Tuners but it's not crazy expensive.
He does all his tuning via scans you send him from driving the car on the street, so you'll get what you want, not a dyno tune that hits a number but drives like crap on the street.
He's not local but Pat G. does all my tuning remotely.
He did my last SBE LS1 six speed car which made 700whp on pump gas only for years, he's doing my big turbo car as we speak, he's excellent.
You'll have to buy the plug in if you don't have HP Tuners but it's not crazy expensive.
He does all his tuning via scans you send him from driving the car on the street, so you'll get what you want, not a dyno tune that hits a number but drives like crap on the street.
so, you saying getting hp tuners and going with factory ecu I have, then have him tune it remotely? I can do that. I’d basically need hp tuner connector, wideband and what else? Can you share his contact plz.
so, you saying getting hp tuners and going with factory ecu I have, then have him tune it remotely? I can do that. I’d basically need hp tuner connector, wideband and what else? Can you share his contact plz.
You don't have to use HP Tuners but if you have the setup already you can. (Laptop, cables, software, credits)
Pat can also tune via EFI Live which is a handheld you plug in and use to scan and upload tunes.
You'll still need a wideband for both, but you'll need one of those regardless even after tuning is complete.
He'll go back and forth with you until you are satisfied with how the car runs and drives, this also means making hits on the street so plan accordingly and find a good spot with plenty of space.
Here's his info, tell him Verne sent you. ; ) Patrick Guerra The Guerra Group, Inc. |Pat G Tuning Office: 114 Spokane Avenue | Victoria, TX 77904 Shop: 5002 Lingo Lane | Victoria, TX 77904 361.576.5917 o |361.576.5928 f |713.306.9990 c
He's not local but Pat G. does all my tuning remotely.
He did my last SBE LS1 six speed car which made 700whp on pump gas only for years, he's doing my big turbo car as we speak, he's excellent.
You'll have to buy the plug in if you don't have HP Tuners but it's not crazy expensive.
He does all his tuning via scans you send him from driving the car on the street, so you'll get what you want, not a dyno tune that hits a number but drives like crap on the street.
so, you saying getting hp tuners and going with factory ecu I have, then have him tune it remotely? I can do that. I’d basically need hp tuner connector, wideband and what else? Can you share his contact plz.
Well if you don't have HPTuners you have to buy it, it's $400-500 I think? I'm not up to date on the price.
So here is the reasons why the Holley Terminator is better.
1- You can potentially get it running yourself with it's self tune stuff.
2- You can use a non-local tuner who can remote into your laptop via something like Teamviewer. You could use someone like Andrew who is a member of this group.
3- You can make real time changes to the tune. Car is running, you can lean it out, add fuel, etc. With HPT you have to download the tune, edit the tune, load it up, log, decide your changes, download tune again. And repeat.
I use both for different cars. My heads/cam car uses HPT.
Well if you don't have HPTuners you have to buy it, it's $400-500 I think? I'm not up to date on the price.
So here is the reasons why the Holley Terminator is better.
1- You can potentially get it running yourself with it's self tune stuff.
2- You can use a non-local tuner who can remote into your laptop via something like Teamviewer. You could use someone like Andrew who is a member of this group.
3- You can make real time changes to the tune. Car is running, you can lean it out, add fuel, etc. With HPT you have to download the tune, edit the tune, load it up, log, decide your changes, download tune again. And repeat.
I use both for different cars. My heads/cam car uses HPT.
I didn't know you could make real time changes with the Holley, that is worth it in itself.
Starting to think John has stock in Holley lol. ; )
Holley is certainly easier from a beginner standpoint, but don't count on Holley tech support to fix any problems that's for sure. Plenty of resources online however to fill in that gap in the Holley world. Since the tuner makes all the difference though I would go with whatever your tuner is most comfortable with because that matters the most for a pretty straight forward combo like this as either computer is perfectly capable of making this setup work.
I like HPT too, one of the founders is a local friend and I was around him when he and the 2 other founders were creating the company. For a basic NA build that you will tune once it's good, that's my 5th gen. I haven't really touched the tune in 6 years except to create a sniffer tune. HPT I've learned how to change shift points, timing, injector offsets, down shifts, idle, fan settings, converter lock and unlock which is pretty handy when dialing in a car that you race.
But Holley for a stouter build, absolutely. The real-time tuning is really a must have. Holley (and some other aftermarket ECUs like Fueltech) also give you the ability to control boost in the ECU and the ability to add other inputs that you can then log within the Holley. That list is huge and I don't even know what all the possibilites are, but basically if you can use a sensor to monitor something you can generally pin that into the Holley. Some tuners and racers for example will monitor coolant pressure. So if there is a above normal coolant psi spike you could program the holley to reduce engine timing.
With builds of this level, it's really time to learn how to do your own tuning in my opinion. I was always happy with Jim Moran doing my tunes, but being out of state it just made sense to learn how to do my own tuning. I think learning to tune in this hobby is a very rewarding skill. The less you rely on someone else the better.
With builds of this level, it's really time to learn how to do your own tuning in my opinion. I was always happy with Jim Moran doing my tunes, but being out of state it just made sense to learn how to do my own tuning. I think learning to tune in this hobby is a very rewarding skill. The less you rely on someone else the better.
Learning to tune your own stuff is much easier said than done especially when using HP Tuners.
I attempted this but with my work travel schedule, general availability, computer skill level and build complexity, I'd have spent at least a year or two just trying to get it drive able, I only have a four-to-five-month window of nice weather where I live as well.
Pat G's initial tune had the car running better than it ever had out of the box and over a single summer progressed to the point of adding more boost before other issues were uncovered.
Without a doubt it was the best $500 I have spent on the car, once it's dialed, I'll make little changes at the track but for getting going quickly you can't beat it imo.
Learning to tune your own stuff is much easier said than done especially when using HP Tuners.
I attempted this but with my work travel schedule, general availability, computer skill level and build complexity, I'd have spent at least a year or two just trying to get it drive able, I only have a four-to-five-month window of nice weather where I live as well.
Pat G's initial tune had the car running better than it ever had out of the box and over a single summer progressed to the point of adding more boost before other issues were uncovered.
Without a doubt it was the best $500 I have spent on the car, once it's dialed, I'll make little changes at the track but for getting going quickly you can't beat it imo.
No need to take it personal. I tune using hptuners and stock ecu's. My first tune was a sbe ls1 with a procharger on pump gas. I didn't hurt that motor because I took the time to study, start at low boost, and work my way up. There is an investment of time and effort, but the value in the end is hard to put a price on as it's a very rewarding part of the hobby. I work overtime every week as well as work from home answering calls/emails for support. I also have a wife and 15 year old daughter. I also workout in my home gym 5 days a week. I have 23 years of perfect attendance at my job as a blue collar factory worker. I recently made the sacrifice to go back to night shift for a better opportunity for more money and my first office. Excuses are just excuses. We all deal with life issues.
No need to take it personal. I tune using hptuners and stock ecu's. My first tune was a sbe ls1 with a procharger on pump gas. I didn't hurt that motor because I took the time to study, start at low boost, and work my way up. There is an investment of time and effort, but the value in the end is hard to put a price on as it's a very rewarding part of the hobby. I work overtime every week as well as work from home answering calls/emails for support. I also have a wife and 15 year old daughter. I also workout in my home gym 5 days a week. I have 23 years of perfect attendance at my job as a blue collar factory worker. I recently made the sacrifice to go back to night shift for a better opportunity for more money and my first office. Excuses are just excuses. We all deal with life issues.
I didn't take it personal and certainly wasn't intending to take a shot at anyone, but it sure looks like you took it that way.
Good for you for making it work, just don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back, hate for you to miss a day of work.
If going into something that you are doing as a resto mod I would 100% go Holley. Adding on top of that you are going the boosted route the Holley has a lot of safety built into it that you can use to your advantage while learning if you go that route or even just pay for a starter tune from someone and use that to build from.
If talking something that already came setup with the ECM it would be easier to go with HPT than try to integrate a Holley system, but going restomod just go Holley and be done imo.
Other piece of advice I would toss out is to at least research and have an idea of what the tune is doing. Do you need to learn/know how to build it from scratch? Not by any means, but when a tuner tells you they are cranking up the boost to 18 pounds and feeding it 28 degrees of timing on pump gas with 13:1 AFR, you might want to look elsewhere. You would think that anyone that has a shop wouldn't do anything reckless but you would be surprised how many out there immediately blame "faulty" work or "bad" parts for catastrophic failure.
If going into something that you are doing as a resto mod I would 100% go Holley. Adding on top of that you are going the boosted route the Holley has a lot of safety built into it that you can use to your advantage while learning if you go that route or even just pay for a starter tune from someone and use that to build from.
If talking something that already came setup with the ECM it would be easier to go with HPT than try to integrate a Holley system, but going restomod just go Holley and be done imo.
Other piece of advice I would toss out is to at least research and have an idea of what the tune is doing. Do you need to learn/know how to build it from scratch? Not by any means, but when a tuner tells you they are cranking up the boost to 18 pounds and feeding it 28 degrees of timing on pump gas with 13:1 AFR, you might want to look elsewhere. You would think that anyone that has a shop wouldn't do anything reckless but you would be surprised how many out there immediately blame "faulty" work or "bad" parts for catastrophic failure.
I agree with much of what you have said here. I have done my own tuning with HPTuners so far. Tuning a boosted application will be a new experience. For someone running a 4th gen HPTuners has Real Time Tuning.
With builds of this level, it's really time to learn how to do your own tuning in my opinion. I was always happy with Jim Moran doing my tunes, but being out of state it just made sense to learn how to do my own tuning. I think learning to tune in this hobby is a very rewarding skill. The less you rely on someone else the better.
I agree with this but had the terminator been out before I bought hp tuners I think i would have gone that way . Harness, wideband , boost control and gauge display all in one. Still would have tuned it myself though, can't imagine having to go /pay someone to change shift points or try more or less timing for WOT or fuel economy etc...
Jim Moran has been tuning a long time he's as solid it gets, maybe 20 years tuning now.
I think he’s the best factory ecu street car tuner in the country and I still thought it was best to start learning how to do it myself. If someone doesn’t want to learn themself and is within reasonable distance I would absolutely send them to him.
I didn't take it personal and certainly wasn't intending to take a shot at anyone, but it sure looks like you took it that way.
Good for you for making it work, just don't hurt yourself patting yourself on the back, hate for you to miss a day of work.
Lol...
People always think they have it bad and assume those who are happy or proud of their accomplishments had it easy. Of course I’m proud of my accomplishments, I was raised by an abusive drunk step dad and was homeless at one point. I love America and the opportunity it gave me and everything I’ve accomplished. I’m not sorry for it.
Thanks for all inputs. I do have a Holley Sniper on my BB corvette and I was able to make it right, but that setup is a TBI, N/A and not controlling timing ( it can be setup to control timing also, but me being old school, rather use timing light). Holley customer service is also not the greatest. But being an old matching number car with manual transmission, mild cam and A/C runs good on street. made 460 WHP....
Now, as mentioned, I have all matching electronics came with this LQ4 I've built. Here are pros and cons of GM setup vs terminator x max as I'm looking at them. Correct me If I'm wrong:
HPTuners:
Pros:
- Have ECM, harness, pedal and TAC module in hand.
- Factory diagnostics capabilities - especially if something goes wrong in 4L80E (you can still read DTCs after you tune it, right?)
- OE grade component reliability ( I needed to send my Holley Sniper for repair twice in 5000 miles)
- Will add a good skill, as you guys mentioned. Can be used on other project also.
Cons:
- Still lot more components required ( HPTuner credits, Connector, Wide Band, etc. ) which bring it up past $1200 and probably even further.
- Can't do boost control, meth injection, real time learning, I/Os
- Heard Is hard to get good result with SD tune.
- Still need to go into harness and modify it.
- No safety measures if something goes out of control.
Holley Terminator X MAX:
Pros:
- Easier (than HPTuner)/ No credit needed.
- Self learning capability.
- Comes with everything needed to make it run and tune it (maybe a boost control solenoid and misc. sensors need to purchase separately)
- To my calculation, costs maybe $200-$400 more than HPTuner (or less).
- Works with inexpensive injectors.
- Does boost control, meth, Flex fuel and I/Os.
- Ready to go Harness.
Cons:
- How do you diagnose problems? Other than going back to data logs, I mean...If 4L80E has a problem, how do you diagnose it?
- Reliability. Particularly, this won't be a "track only" car.
6 Common C5 Corvette Failures and What's Involved In Repairing Them
Slideshow: From wobbling harmonic balancers to failed EBCMs, these are the issues that define long-term C5 ownership and what repairs typically involve.
Retro Modern Bandit Pontiac Trans AM Comes With Burt Reynolds' Autograph
Slideshow: A modern Camaro transformed into a retro icon, this limited-run "Bandit" build blends nostalgia with brute force in a way few revivals manage.
Top 10 Greatest Cadillac V Series Performance Models Ever, Ranked
Slideshow: Cadillac didn't just crash the high-performance luxury vehicle party, it showed up loud, supercharged, and occasionally a little unhinged...
Coachbuilt N2A Anteros Is an LS2-Powered C6 Corvette In Italian Clothes
Slideshow: A one-off sports car that looks like a vintage Italian exotic-but hides a C6 Corvette underneath-just sold for the price of a new mid-engine Corvette.
advice needed for ECM/reliable tuner close to me 
