Summit Ghost Cam. Power limit on boost? Kind of a what will it make thread??
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Joined: Oct 2009
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From: South Hill, Wa
Summit Ghost Cam. Power limit on boost? Kind of a what will it make thread?? Don't get me wrong, I know there's a **** ton of variables to this. In general I'm curious what some of the top numbers guys have made or even track times especially with the 8715R1 Ghost cam?
I'd be dumb to say that I'm not leaving a fair amount of power on the table with this cam (especially for the size displacement), but at the end of the day I know that the drivability of this cam paired with a manual trans is such a pleasure to drive over my previous cam. This makes it all worthwhile. It is a street car at the end of the day. I have been driving this combo around for 6 months now and it is super fun and easy to drive. My wife can drive it no problems.
Car is an early C5 Corvette with 411 pcm swap. Engine is a forged 408 with 9.5:1 compression, LS3 heads, with an LSA blower with 8.25" crank and 2.45" blower pulley. The most boost I've seen not even trying hard is 12 psi at 4k. IATs right at 100 degrees.
Car will hit the dyno next week Thursday. No idea what to expect really. I've heard some pretty wild guesses on power numbers. This dyno session is more importantly happening to see if we're gonna run out of fuel system. If it does, we'll regroup and try again.
I'd be dumb to say that I'm not leaving a fair amount of power on the table with this cam (especially for the size displacement), but at the end of the day I know that the drivability of this cam paired with a manual trans is such a pleasure to drive over my previous cam. This makes it all worthwhile. It is a street car at the end of the day. I have been driving this combo around for 6 months now and it is super fun and easy to drive. My wife can drive it no problems.
Car is an early C5 Corvette with 411 pcm swap. Engine is a forged 408 with 9.5:1 compression, LS3 heads, with an LSA blower with 8.25" crank and 2.45" blower pulley. The most boost I've seen not even trying hard is 12 psi at 4k. IATs right at 100 degrees.
Car will hit the dyno next week Thursday. No idea what to expect really. I've heard some pretty wild guesses on power numbers. This dyno session is more importantly happening to see if we're gonna run out of fuel system. If it does, we'll regroup and try again.
I could see north of 700 if your IAT's are in check and you don't suffer any belt slip.
While a bigger cam might make a few more HP, you're blower limited much more so than cam limited.
While a bigger cam might make a few more HP, you're blower limited much more so than cam limited.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
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From: South Hill, Wa
Yes I know the IATs won't always be dreamy lol. You get spoiled when driving around even in summer temps datalogging but moving down the road and how cool the IAT stays. I should mention there is no ICE TANK at this time. Just a normal ZL1 intercooler setup all factory parts.
This is running an 8 Rib belt drive via some Innovators West parts and the blower pulley is Olson Kustom works for Corvette accessory spacing. The current gates green belt has about 4k miles on it and I am going to run that one for this dyno session to see if it slips. As of now I've never recorded any slip or heard any slip with the 8 rib setup. It would squawk when you stabbed the throttle on 6 rib belt.
Good to know motorhead that it will be blower limited over cam limited. I honestly wasn't quite sure. Maybe someday I can play around with a Kong 2650 when I win the powerball that I don't play. In all seriousness IMO I'm right at that happy point where proceeding anymore with HP is just going to totally turn the rest of my drivetrain into glass.
I will be blown away if we can hit 700 wheel.
This is running an 8 Rib belt drive via some Innovators West parts and the blower pulley is Olson Kustom works for Corvette accessory spacing. The current gates green belt has about 4k miles on it and I am going to run that one for this dyno session to see if it slips. As of now I've never recorded any slip or heard any slip with the 8 rib setup. It would squawk when you stabbed the throttle on 6 rib belt.
Good to know motorhead that it will be blower limited over cam limited. I honestly wasn't quite sure. Maybe someday I can play around with a Kong 2650 when I win the powerball that I don't play. In all seriousness IMO I'm right at that happy point where proceeding anymore with HP is just going to totally turn the rest of my drivetrain into glass.
I will be blown away if we can hit 700 wheel.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
Also, I didn't mention it and I should have, this will be on 92 octane pump gas. We don't have E around here anywhere without buying it in expensive blue 5 gallon cans and I am not doing that.
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Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: South Hill, Wa
There used to be rumors of an E pump in Tacoma somewhere but I ain't ever seen it and I'm not going to look for it lol. I drive this car way too much to go on special fuel up trips.
Not to mention I ABSOLUTELY know my fuel system is not up to the task of E lol.
Not to mention I ABSOLUTELY know my fuel system is not up to the task of E lol.
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Be interesting to see how it does on the dyno, at least you have the man. trans, so prob make more that an auto. I have the ghost cam in my 6.0, really love it as far as drivability, esp when using the lockup on the 4L80E, doesn't buck, just drives nice. Hopefully get it on a dyno in the next few weeks, although its pretty close now.
E would definitely be the way to go if it was available. I've heard of guys getting another 70 hp just adding flex fuel along with the appropriate tune, injectors, and fuel pump upgrades.
A quick and dirty way to estimate power on one of these rigs is to estimate N/A power (I figured 460ish in your case) and add 20hp/# of boost on top of that. And, yeah, The ****** is spot on saying porting the blower would be a really good upgrade.
I've been around LSA blowers, but never owned one. I have put together 3 TVS2300 rigs though. Two of them were LS3's. The last one made 660+ with a cam similar to yours (224/234 116+2). That one showed about 9.5 psi near sea level. Even with your smaller blower, you're pumping quite a bit more air than I was. Should be interesting to see how yours does. Hope it exceeds your expectations
A quick and dirty way to estimate power on one of these rigs is to estimate N/A power (I figured 460ish in your case) and add 20hp/# of boost on top of that. And, yeah, The ****** is spot on saying porting the blower would be a really good upgrade.
I've been around LSA blowers, but never owned one. I have put together 3 TVS2300 rigs though. Two of them were LS3's. The last one made 660+ with a cam similar to yours (224/234 116+2). That one showed about 9.5 psi near sea level. Even with your smaller blower, you're pumping quite a bit more air than I was. Should be interesting to see how yours does. Hope it exceeds your expectations
E would definitely be the way to go if it was available. I've heard of guys getting another 70 hp just adding flex fuel along with the appropriate tune, injectors, and fuel pump upgrades.
A quick and dirty way to estimate power on one of these rigs is to estimate N/A power (I figured 460ish in your case) and add 20hp/# of boost on top of that. And, yeah, The ****** is spot on saying porting the blower would be a really good upgrade.
I've been around LSA blowers, but never owned one. I have put together 3 TVS2300 rigs though. Two of them were LS3's. The last one made 660+ with a cam similar to yours (224/234 116+2). That one showed about 9.5 psi near sea level. Even with your smaller blower, you're pumping quite a bit more air than I was. Should be interesting to see how yours does. Hope it exceeds your expectations
A quick and dirty way to estimate power on one of these rigs is to estimate N/A power (I figured 460ish in your case) and add 20hp/# of boost on top of that. And, yeah, The ****** is spot on saying porting the blower would be a really good upgrade.
I've been around LSA blowers, but never owned one. I have put together 3 TVS2300 rigs though. Two of them were LS3's. The last one made 660+ with a cam similar to yours (224/234 116+2). That one showed about 9.5 psi near sea level. Even with your smaller blower, you're pumping quite a bit more air than I was. Should be interesting to see how yours does. Hope it exceeds your expectations
Yes I know the IATs won't always be dreamy lol. You get spoiled when driving around even in summer temps datalogging but moving down the road and how cool the IAT stays. I should mention there is no ICE TANK at this time. Just a normal ZL1 intercooler setup all factory parts.
This is running an 8 Rib belt drive via some Innovators West parts and the blower pulley is Olson Kustom works for Corvette accessory spacing. The current gates green belt has about 4k miles on it and I am going to run that one for this dyno session to see if it slips. As of now I've never recorded any slip or heard any slip with the 8 rib setup. It would squawk when you stabbed the throttle on 6 rib belt.
Good to know motorhead that it will be blower limited over cam limited. I honestly wasn't quite sure. Maybe someday I can play around with a Kong 2650 when I win the powerball that I don't play. In all seriousness IMO I'm right at that happy point where proceeding anymore with HP is just going to totally turn the rest of my drivetrain into glass.
I will be blown away if we can hit 700 wheel.
This is running an 8 Rib belt drive via some Innovators West parts and the blower pulley is Olson Kustom works for Corvette accessory spacing. The current gates green belt has about 4k miles on it and I am going to run that one for this dyno session to see if it slips. As of now I've never recorded any slip or heard any slip with the 8 rib setup. It would squawk when you stabbed the throttle on 6 rib belt.
Good to know motorhead that it will be blower limited over cam limited. I honestly wasn't quite sure. Maybe someday I can play around with a Kong 2650 when I win the powerball that I don't play. In all seriousness IMO I'm right at that happy point where proceeding anymore with HP is just going to totally turn the rest of my drivetrain into glass.
I will be blown away if we can hit 700 wheel.
Little side note for you, have the blower pulley sandblasted if it slips. My buddy used to get me to sandblast his pulleys on his 8 sec mustang and it stopped the slip. It didn't add any belt wear that he ever noticed. Of course I'm only referring to blasting the ribbed part.
Thread Starter
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 673
Likes: 383
From: South Hill, Wa
John it has the full Racetronix in tank bucket and pump assembly plus their hotwire harness. Surprisingly if I'm not mistaken this is only spec'd with a Lingenfelter 255 pump. I could be wrong on that though. Per the paper instructions IIRC it says it is good for approximately 650 wheel on pump gas and approximately 750 wheel with a boost a pump which I do NOT have.
Injectors are Fuel Injector Clinic 60lb units. Per their online calculator 90% duty cycle on gas is around 660 wheel and at 95% duty cycle it is approximately 700 wheel.
Since this is an early C5 it has a dedicated return line all the way up at the fuel rails instead of the goofy fuel filter regulator deal. Which don't get me wrong works for a lot of people.
I don't have enough experience to know how this all relates to the real world though. I've have seen some pretty high horsepower numbers with stock c5 pumps so that kind of gives me hopes that it may just work out completely safe for now.
If it happens to start losing fuel pressure I may explore the option of trying to cram a smallish single pump surge tank in the left front fender.
I see you put a lot more timing in it from where I was. Good though that it's still commanding 11.3:1 AFR.
Will be interesting to see what your dyno tuner does and how he approaches it.
Remember too, most likely on winter fuel, not sure what difference that will make.
Hopefully no mor esnow between now and the 2nd. Been a little wild of late in the PNW.
Ron
Will be interesting to see what your dyno tuner does and how he approaches it.
Remember too, most likely on winter fuel, not sure what difference that will make.
Hopefully no mor esnow between now and the 2nd. Been a little wild of late in the PNW.
Ron
Are you sure about the drive pulley combo? 8.25" crank pulley driving a 2.45" blower pulley? I see over 20,000 rpm blower speed at 6000 rpm. I'm surprised you didn't see well over 12psi with that combo. 700 at the wheels should be a walk in the park if you make all that play nice together. Pumping that much air, a ported blower and a bigger throttle body would pay big dividends too.
Meth will give you more octane for sure but will have little effect on IAT's. That's unless you have a way of injecting the meth downstream of the blower. I've seen spray bars that inject meth right before going into the cylinder head. That's great in theory but you have no way of knowing if one or more cylinders is running lean. Lean = engine carnage at higher boost/power levels. Meth injection on turbo's and centrifugal blowers work absolutely great. That's because the meth is injected downstream of the blower. It's an easy failsafe, because the tune can pull timing if the IAT's are high. With very little IAT change between meth and no meth on a PD blower, that failsafe just isn't there.
Meth will give you more octane for sure but will have little effect on IAT's. That's unless you have a way of injecting the meth downstream of the blower. I've seen spray bars that inject meth right before going into the cylinder head. That's great in theory but you have no way of knowing if one or more cylinders is running lean. Lean = engine carnage at higher boost/power levels. Meth injection on turbo's and centrifugal blowers work absolutely great. That's because the meth is injected downstream of the blower. It's an easy failsafe, because the tune can pull timing if the IAT's are high. With very little IAT change between meth and no meth on a PD blower, that failsafe just isn't there.
You're probably going to need more injector too. And probably at least a boost a pump for increased fuel flow. I had 60# Mototrons in a 640 wheel hp build and they were over 75% duty cycle.
John it has the full Racetronix in tank bucket and pump assembly plus their hotwire harness. Surprisingly if I'm not mistaken this is only spec'd with a Lingenfelter 255 pump. I could be wrong on that though. Per the paper instructions IIRC it says it is good for approximately 650 wheel on pump gas and approximately 750 wheel with a boost a pump which I do NOT have.
Injectors are Fuel Injector Clinic 60lb units. Per their online calculator 90% duty cycle on gas is around 660 wheel and at 95% duty cycle it is approximately 700 wheel.
Since this is an early C5 it has a dedicated return line all the way up at the fuel rails instead of the goofy fuel filter regulator deal. Which don't get me wrong works for a lot of people.
I don't have enough experience to know how this all relates to the real world though. I've have seen some pretty high horsepower numbers with stock c5 pumps so that kind of gives me hopes that it may just work out completely safe for now.
If it happens to start losing fuel pressure I may explore the option of trying to cram a smallish single pump surge tank in the left front fender.
Injectors are Fuel Injector Clinic 60lb units. Per their online calculator 90% duty cycle on gas is around 660 wheel and at 95% duty cycle it is approximately 700 wheel.
Since this is an early C5 it has a dedicated return line all the way up at the fuel rails instead of the goofy fuel filter regulator deal. Which don't get me wrong works for a lot of people.
I don't have enough experience to know how this all relates to the real world though. I've have seen some pretty high horsepower numbers with stock c5 pumps so that kind of gives me hopes that it may just work out completely safe for now.
If it happens to start losing fuel pressure I may explore the option of trying to cram a smallish single pump surge tank in the left front fender.