Help burning wires
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From: Louisiana
Out of boost timing should be in the low 20s under load and high 20's unloaded. Wanna say factory maps were around 28* peak when cruising. Which I always thought was conservative. But you aren't gonna hurt anything on e85 there. I like to run around 20* at 5psi and under then ramp up to around 15* by 15lbs. I doubt a new tune would help. If he's a reputable tuner its far from rocket science. Something is very wrong if you have air gap all around a wrapped manifold and boot, and its still burning through.
Might turn the lights off, press the brakes hard and load up the turbo. See if the 2 runners (or any) glow bright orange.
I’ve never heard of a plug cracking from heat alone. If he’s detonating the crap out of it, maybe… but I’d guess they are man handling the plug at install due to awkward angles and hard to access plugs. Also inspect the plugs really well before install. I’ve seen a lot of new plugs cracked.
Might turn the lights off, press the brakes hard and load up the turbo. See if the 2 runners (or any) glow bright orange.
I’ve never heard of a plug cracking from heat alone. If he’s detonating the crap out of it, maybe… but I’d guess they are man handling the plug at install due to awkward angles and hard to access plugs. Also inspect the plugs really well before install. I’ve seen a lot of new plugs cracked.
I’d say common knowledge and physics prove it. You aren’t cracking porcelain with radiant heat. A manifold won’t crack a spark plug, period. You can safety wire a plug on every manifold runner you have and run it all you want. It will never crack from heat alone. Unless a piston smacks it, or you detonate all to hell.
It’s hard with performance shops. They have to deal with a lot of BS too. I'd kill'm with kindness and just explain how u feel about it. If I were a shop owner and that happened, I’d show the customer. Before asking them for $3k.
Might go there with known good plugs. Offer to put them in yourself and have him make a pull. Make him prove it. Not a lot of work on his end for $3k IMO. Sounds like they can’t figure out the problem and want to charge you for fixing it. That’s not how it works IMO.
It’s hard with performance shops. They have to deal with a lot of BS too. I'd kill'm with kindness and just explain how u feel about it. If I were a shop owner and that happened, I’d show the customer. Before asking them for $3k.
Might go there with known good plugs. Offer to put them in yourself and have him make a pull. Make him prove it. Not a lot of work on his end for $3k IMO. Sounds like they can’t figure out the problem and want to charge you for fixing it. That’s not how it works IMO.
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From: Louisiana
I’d say common knowledge and physics prove it. You aren’t cracking porcelain with radiant heat. A manifold won’t crack a spark plug, period. You can safety wire a plug on every manifold runner you have and run it all you want. It will never crack from heat alone. Unless a piston smacks it, or you detonate all to hell.
It’s hard with performance shops. They have to deal with a lot of BS too. I'd kill'm with kindness and just explain how u feel about it. If I were a shop owner and that happened, I’d show the customer. Before asking them for $3k.
Might go there with known good plugs. Offer to put them in yourself and have him make a pull. Make him prove it. Not a lot of work on his end for $3k IMO. Sounds like they can’t figure out the problem and want to charge you for fixing it. That’s not how it works IMO.
It’s hard with performance shops. They have to deal with a lot of BS too. I'd kill'm with kindness and just explain how u feel about it. If I were a shop owner and that happened, I’d show the customer. Before asking them for $3k.
Might go there with known good plugs. Offer to put them in yourself and have him make a pull. Make him prove it. Not a lot of work on his end for $3k IMO. Sounds like they can’t figure out the problem and want to charge you for fixing it. That’s not how it works IMO.
*If* it keeps breaking would be the key point. If they aren’t detonating and the pistons not hitting the plug, the manifold won’t crack a plug. Its not possible! There is nothing to prove.
They are making excuses. They’d have a really hard time showing you, because its not possible. Esp if you installed them and know you didn’t crack them on install. Same deal with the plug wires. If you can actually see a ¼” gap all around and have them wrapped and the manifolds wrapped. They aren’t gonna burn unless those manifolds are glowing bright orange. Even then the plugs will be fine.
I have no doubt they pulled the plug, and found it was cracked. What I doubt is that they did it multiple times. Or took the time to set it up correctly. Sounds like they gorilla installed them and cracked them while installing. I’ve done it. Get the universal in there tight and at the wrong angle and it’ll crack. Force a boot on hard at a crappy angle… it’ll crack.
Your setup looks like a nightmare to change plugs on. So I feel for the guys. I’m not saying its easy. But what they claim isn’t possible. They are just frustrated with it and don’t want to work on it… yet are still charging you as if it was “fixed”.
They are making excuses. They’d have a really hard time showing you, because its not possible. Esp if you installed them and know you didn’t crack them on install. Same deal with the plug wires. If you can actually see a ¼” gap all around and have them wrapped and the manifolds wrapped. They aren’t gonna burn unless those manifolds are glowing bright orange. Even then the plugs will be fine.
I have no doubt they pulled the plug, and found it was cracked. What I doubt is that they did it multiple times. Or took the time to set it up correctly. Sounds like they gorilla installed them and cracked them while installing. I’ve done it. Get the universal in there tight and at the wrong angle and it’ll crack. Force a boot on hard at a crappy angle… it’ll crack.
Your setup looks like a nightmare to change plugs on. So I feel for the guys. I’m not saying its easy. But what they claim isn’t possible. They are just frustrated with it and don’t want to work on it… yet are still charging you as if it was “fixed”.
Thread Starter
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From: Louisiana
*If* it keeps breaking would be the key point. If they aren’t detonating and the pistons not hitting the plug, the manifold won’t crack a plug. Its not possible! There is nothing to prove.
They are making excuses. They’d have a really hard time showing you, because its not possible. Esp if you installed them and know you didn’t crack them on install. Same deal with the plug wires. If you can actually see a ¼” gap all around and have them wrapped and the manifolds wrapped. They aren’t gonna burn unless those manifolds are glowing bright orange. Even then the plugs will be fine.
I have no doubt they pulled the plug, and found it was cracked. What I doubt is that they did it multiple times. Or took the time to set it up correctly. Sounds like they gorilla installed them and cracked them while installing. I’ve done it. Get the universal in there tight and at the wrong angle and it’ll crack. Force a boot on hard at a crappy angle… it’ll crack.
Your setup looks like a nightmare to change plugs on. So I feel for the guys. I’m not saying its easy. But what they claim isn’t possible. They are just frustrated with it and don’t want to work on it… yet are still charging you as if it was “fixed”.
They are making excuses. They’d have a really hard time showing you, because its not possible. Esp if you installed them and know you didn’t crack them on install. Same deal with the plug wires. If you can actually see a ¼” gap all around and have them wrapped and the manifolds wrapped. They aren’t gonna burn unless those manifolds are glowing bright orange. Even then the plugs will be fine.
I have no doubt they pulled the plug, and found it was cracked. What I doubt is that they did it multiple times. Or took the time to set it up correctly. Sounds like they gorilla installed them and cracked them while installing. I’ve done it. Get the universal in there tight and at the wrong angle and it’ll crack. Force a boot on hard at a crappy angle… it’ll crack.
Your setup looks like a nightmare to change plugs on. So I feel for the guys. I’m not saying its easy. But what they claim isn’t possible. They are just frustrated with it and don’t want to work on it… yet are still charging you as if it was “fixed”.
I 100 percent agree with you, I've had vehicles with knock off brand headers and the wires touching the manifolds and this still didn't happen. He's telling me if I can fix it that he will retune it for free but now after hearing you guys opinions I don't even want him to retune it. There's some stuff on the invoice I wouldn't mind paying for but the trial and error I feel like is on him. Look at the parts list, you can see where he charged multiple times for plugs.
Man that labor seems a little wonkey in places… but reasonable in others. What is the shop rate per hour?
He is charging you $270 to change spark plugs? Twice? So $540 to change plugs? That’s seem odd. Also $100 in parts? Are they iridium plugs? $640 for plugs seems crazy to me.
Then what’s up with the compressor housing drill and tap? $405? To drill a hole and tap it? Is the compressor housing like insanely hard to access? I don’t see how this would take 4 hours plus to do. Drill and tap is a 30 min job plus the R/R of the housing.
IDK I’m in KS and shop hours are $80ish. I know not everyone is that lucky… but those items seem off to me.
He is charging you $270 to change spark plugs? Twice? So $540 to change plugs? That’s seem odd. Also $100 in parts? Are they iridium plugs? $640 for plugs seems crazy to me.
Then what’s up with the compressor housing drill and tap? $405? To drill a hole and tap it? Is the compressor housing like insanely hard to access? I don’t see how this would take 4 hours plus to do. Drill and tap is a 30 min job plus the R/R of the housing.
IDK I’m in KS and shop hours are $80ish. I know not everyone is that lucky… but those items seem off to me.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
Man that labor seems a little wonkey in places… but reasonable in others. What is the shop rate per hour?
He is charging you $270 to change spark plugs? Twice? So $540 to change plugs? That’s seem odd. Also $100 in parts? Are they iridium plugs? $640 for plugs seems crazy to me.
Then what’s up with the compressor housing drill and tap? $405? To drill a hole and tap it? Is the compressor housing like insanely hard to access? I don’t see how this would take 4 hours plus to do. Drill and tap is a 30 min job plus the R/R of the housing.
IDK I’m in KS and shop hours are $80ish. I know not everyone is that lucky… but those items seem off to me.
He is charging you $270 to change spark plugs? Twice? So $540 to change plugs? That’s seem odd. Also $100 in parts? Are they iridium plugs? $640 for plugs seems crazy to me.
Then what’s up with the compressor housing drill and tap? $405? To drill a hole and tap it? Is the compressor housing like insanely hard to access? I don’t see how this would take 4 hours plus to do. Drill and tap is a 30 min job plus the R/R of the housing.
IDK I’m in KS and shop hours are $80ish. I know not everyone is that lucky… but those items seem off to me.
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From: Louisiana
10-4 the only concern I see with this is the side that goes to the coils. I have the stock truck coils and the fitting that connects to mind doesn't have a 90 degree bend like that
The factory harness may reach and then you'd have more flexibility with wires.
I know it's more work, but you could always double wrap that manifold, some guy's double wrap even the standard manifolds to knock down laten heat as well as keeping as much of the heat in the exhaust as possible.
I hear ya… shop consumables aren’t free. I’ve been charged for rags and mats before. I can see that. Not a huge deal there. Esp. if he had your car up on his dyno and your line popped and sprayed his equipment and floors. That’s a bastard to clean and not on them.
If they tried tons of different wires and spent 4-5 hours playing with plugs, I guess I could see those charges. Thats where communication with the customer is key. I’d of called you after the first wire/plug issue and asked you if you wanted me to continue to try with other plugs/wires/etc and informed you it was a time eater and that you could be looking at tons of labor, and still might not work. That’s the kind of stuff I’d asked the customer to drop by and look at. Given them the option to fix it and bring it back.
How long did they have it? Even at 100 an hour that’s 24 hours plus they claim to of spent. That’s 3 8hr days of nothing but your car being worked on. That’s a lot!
If they tried tons of different wires and spent 4-5 hours playing with plugs, I guess I could see those charges. Thats where communication with the customer is key. I’d of called you after the first wire/plug issue and asked you if you wanted me to continue to try with other plugs/wires/etc and informed you it was a time eater and that you could be looking at tons of labor, and still might not work. That’s the kind of stuff I’d asked the customer to drop by and look at. Given them the option to fix it and bring it back.
How long did they have it? Even at 100 an hour that’s 24 hours plus they claim to of spent. That’s 3 8hr days of nothing but your car being worked on. That’s a lot!
Thread Starter
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From: Louisiana
You may have to look at relocating the coils, maybe to the firewall?
The factory harness may reach and then you'd have more flexibility with wires.
I know it's more work, but you could always double wrap that manifold, some guy's double wrap even the standard manifolds to knock down laten heat as well as keeping as much of the heat in the exhaust as possible.
The factory harness may reach and then you'd have more flexibility with wires.
I know it's more work, but you could always double wrap that manifold, some guy's double wrap even the standard manifolds to knock down laten heat as well as keeping as much of the heat in the exhaust as possible.
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
I hear ya… shop consumables aren’t free. I’ve been charged for rags and mats before. I can see that. Not a huge deal there. Esp. if he had your car up on his dyno and your line popped and sprayed his equipment and floors. That’s a bastard to clean and not on them.
If they tried tons of different wires and spent 4-5 hours playing with plugs, I guess I could see those charges. Thats where communication with the customer is key. I’d of called you after the first wire/plug issue and asked you if you wanted me to continue to try with other plugs/wires/etc and informed you it was a time eater and that you could be looking at tons of labor, and still might not work. That’s the kind of stuff I’d asked the customer to drop by and look at. Given them the option to fix it and bring it back.
How long did they have it? Even at 100 an hour that’s 24 hours plus they claim to of spent. That’s 3 8hr days of nothing but your car being worked on. That’s a lot!
If they tried tons of different wires and spent 4-5 hours playing with plugs, I guess I could see those charges. Thats where communication with the customer is key. I’d of called you after the first wire/plug issue and asked you if you wanted me to continue to try with other plugs/wires/etc and informed you it was a time eater and that you could be looking at tons of labor, and still might not work. That’s the kind of stuff I’d asked the customer to drop by and look at. Given them the option to fix it and bring it back.
How long did they have it? Even at 100 an hour that’s 24 hours plus they claim to of spent. That’s 3 8hr days of nothing but your car being worked on. That’s a lot!
oh ok I guess I understand the mat thing then, i didnt realize that could be on the customer and the truck has been there for about a month but it Definitely wasn't worked on for that long. He's one of those guys where you drop the vehicle off and it takes 3 or 4 weeks before he gets to it. According to him he worked on it for 9 days. But for me I don't see anything on that list that could of taken that amount of time. What frustrates me the most about the hole situation is before I put the turbo on the truck I had a conversation with him about it and he told me to get this kit, I bought the parts he wanted me to use and installed them and then dropped it off so it's not like I picked random **** and then dumped it on him to figure out. He chose this kit, then turns around and tells me it's not going to work? That's bs
I didn't want to kick you while you were down, but I'd never run that setup, look at the Huron speed kit and you'll see why.
*New* Huron Speed V4 T4 Kit for 99-13 GM Truck – Huron Speed Products
The CX racing systems are well known for frying plug wires on the driver side, you can make it work but it takes a lot of heat control measures.
I run the HS T6 kit on my Camaro and the hot side is only partially wrapped and I have zero latent heat issues because HS designs their kits that way.
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From: Louisiana
Oh man, I didn't realize your tuner recommended you buy the CX Racing kit, the only plus about the CX kit is the price.
I didn't want to kick you while you were down, but I'd never run that setup, look at the Huron speed kit and you'll see why.
*New* Huron Speed V4 T4 Kit for 99-13 GM Truck – Huron Speed Products
The CX racing systems are well known for frying plug wires on the driver side, you can make it work but it takes a lot of heat control measures.
I run the HS T6 kit on my Camaro and the hot side is only partially wrapped and I have zero latent heat issues because HS designs their kits that way.
I didn't want to kick you while you were down, but I'd never run that setup, look at the Huron speed kit and you'll see why.
*New* Huron Speed V4 T4 Kit for 99-13 GM Truck – Huron Speed Products
The CX racing systems are well known for frying plug wires on the driver side, you can make it work but it takes a lot of heat control measures.
I run the HS T6 kit on my Camaro and the hot side is only partially wrapped and I have zero latent heat issues because HS designs their kits that way.
Pretty good video...
Don't be afraid to dent the crap out of the manifold/runners. It's not gonna hurt a thing.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0
Don't be afraid to dent the crap out of the manifold/runners. It's not gonna hurt a thing.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2022
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From: Louisiana
Pretty good video...
Don't be afraid to dent the crap out of the manifold/runners. It's not gonna hurt a thing.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0
Don't be afraid to dent the crap out of the manifold/runners. It's not gonna hurt a thing.
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3vupq0
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,778
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From: Louisiana
Thread Starter
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Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 1,778
Likes: 629
From: Louisiana
Welded a v band on a factory camaro manifold for the drivers side and had the passenger side completely re-done and they both clear now. Benefit of having a welder buddy