Methanol Injection Users Come In
The meth does not instantly flash to a gas in the tubing. Esp. at your 90-100* charge temps. Meth flashes about 150* at 1 atmosphere. As pressure in the charge pipe goes up, so does the boiling/flash point of the fluid. So without 150*+ worth of charge temps, its not going to flash and it will wet the IAT probe.
There will be a small amount of liquid residual meth, but at those inlet conditions most of it will flash. It is a function of surface area and vapor pressure. Meth has a low vapor pressure, and if you give it a large pressure drop and enough surface area (ie. atomize it to small droplets across a nozzle), it will flash to a gas. Its why you get a better temperature drop on your inlet with better meth nozzles and/or higher pressures.
Its the same principle why you can get water to flash to water vapor at 90 deg F. This video shows water being pushed to a vapor across a high pressure nozzles at ambient conditions.
When a nozzle is involved you can't just look at the boiling point.
There will be a small amount of liquid residual meth, but at those inlet conditions most of it will flash. It is a function of surface area and vapor pressure. Meth has a low vapor pressure, and if you give it a large pressure drop and enough surface area (ie. atomize it to small droplets across a nozzle), it will flash to a gas. Its why you get a better temperature drop on your inlet with better meth nozzles and/or higher pressures.
Its the same principle why you can get water to flash to water vapor at 90 deg F. This video shows water being pushed to a vapor across a high pressure nozzles at ambient conditions.
There will be a small amount of liquid residual meth, but at those inlet conditions most of it will flash. It is a function of surface area and vapor pressure. Meth has a low vapor pressure, and if you give it a large pressure drop and enough surface area (ie. atomize it to small droplets across a nozzle), it will flash to a gas. Its why you get a better temperature drop on your inlet with better meth nozzles and/or higher pressures.
Its the same principle why you can get water to flash to water vapor at 90 deg F. This video shows water being pushed to a vapor across a high pressure nozzles at ambient conditions.
This is easily seen in practice. Using the OP's setup. At 15lbs and 100* say he makes 500hp. Remove the IC and add meth inj. Spray enough meth pre IAT sensor to indicate the same 100* charge temp. And you'll easily see that the the setup with meth and no IC makes LESS hp at the same boost with like "reported" charge temps. This shouldn't be the case as removing the IC also removes a pressure drop in the system. So with like charge temps it should make more power. Yet it makes significantly less. If it all flashed to a gas, the reported temps would be the actual charge temps. And the HP associated with those low temps would show up at the dyno and track. Yet in practice, it doesn't. Why?
There is a reason the fastest turbo cars use intercoolers. If they could ditch the weight and pressure drop in favor of meth inj, they would. Its not that great of a charge cooler. Esp. not in the volumes most spray. Unless you are spraying 50% of your total fuel pre-turbo, It's more anti-knock than anything IMO. Kevin Jewer did this test in a dyno cell for us on yellow bullet.
make a scaled test with a heat gun and some small diameter piping if you want to see for yourself. I've done it. Its a wet mess...
And the HP associated with those low temps would show up at the dyno and track. Yet in practice, it doesn't. Why?
There is a reason the fastest turbo cars use intercoolers. If they could ditch the weight and pressure drop in favor of meth inj, they would. Its not that great of a charge cooler. Esp. not in the volumes most spray. Unless you are spraying 50% of your total fuel pre-turbo, It's more anti-knock than anything IMO. Kevin Jewer did this test in a dyno cell for us on yellow bullet.
make a scaled test with a heat gun and some small diameter piping if you want to see for yourself. I've done it. Its a wet mess...
There is a reason the fastest turbo cars use intercoolers. If they could ditch the weight and pressure drop in favor of meth inj, they would. Its not that great of a charge cooler. Esp. not in the volumes most spray. Unless you are spraying 50% of your total fuel pre-turbo, It's more anti-knock than anything IMO. Kevin Jewer did this test in a dyno cell for us on yellow bullet.
make a scaled test with a heat gun and some small diameter piping if you want to see for yourself. I've done it. Its a wet mess...
It’s not a false reading. That is the temperature reading from the evaporation. You may get some inlet air temperature stratification, but that is your inlet temperature. An IC setup can make more power than a sprayed cooled setup because whatever you are spraying, it displaces the oxygen. When the fuel evaporates into the air, that portion of the volume is no longer carrying oxygen and you can't get that percentage of O2 into the cylinder. It’s why colder fuel makes more power in fuel injection. It’s the same principle why direct injection makes more power than sequential injection makes more power than a carburetor. Direct injection avoids the displacement effect by spraying in fuel after the intake valve closes. Sequential tries to minimize this effect by using a laser-style injector to puddle fuel behind the intake valve. If you just straight up evaporate the fuel into your intake track, you can cut your potential power by whatever the inverse of your a/f ratio is - and because alcohol has a pretty low target a/f, its a pretty big percentage. So, despite your intake air being very-very cold the fuel you used to cool the charge is taking up space that would otherwise carry oxygen and it limits your power compared to a similar setup using just straight up cold air at the same temperature.
In addition to the above problem, there is a saturation limit to how much cooling you can accomplish with methanol. Methanol is evaporating due to partial pressures (the same principle that makes water evaporate at room temperature), so at some point, you saturate the air with so much methanol that it will no longer turn to a gas and will remain at a liquid (the same principle why we have rain). Once you hit this point, the cooling effect stops no matter how much methanol you spray in - and at that point, yes, it creates wet mess.
Last edited by NoGo; Nov 23, 2024 at 01:30 PM.
They made distribution plates for the Turbo Buicks that were pretty cool. Always thought it was strange they don't do similar for LS. Not much you can do about distribution in the LS performance world. Watch the plugs to note your leanest cylinders. Then tune off the hottest looking cyl's plug. Make sure the hot cyls read rich/cool. Ignore the others that read fat/cold.
With a stand alone you can adjust individual cylinder fuel and timing. So you can get all the plugs reading similar giving you a much better starting point. Not sure if HP tuners can do that?
IMO most don't target rich enough AFR when spraying decent amounts of 100% meth. You may not even have to pull any fuel. Gap plugs low at .015 and see where you are at without touching the tune fuel wise. Just add meth. Adjust form there.
With a stand alone you can adjust individual cylinder fuel and timing. So you can get all the plugs reading similar giving you a much better starting point. Not sure if HP tuners can do that?
IMO most don't target rich enough AFR when spraying decent amounts of 100% meth. You may not even have to pull any fuel. Gap plugs low at .015 and see where you are at without touching the tune fuel wise. Just add meth. Adjust form there.
Add boost until it starts to move out of that low 10 AFR window so by low 10's I'm thinking anywhere from 10.0-10.3 which is just wild to me.
So if I reach the point where adding boost starts getting me out of that low 10 AFR window, I'm assuming I start adding fuel via the VE or PE tables?
I think I'll test the system at the current boost level of 14 lbs. maybe turn it up to 16 lbs. just to see what it does, gap the current plugs at .015", knock the timing down to 10* at 5,500+ rpm.
Then start turning it up on a fresh set of plugs, I've got two new sets so all good there.
It'd be great if I could get lucky and reach 20 lbs. without having to adjust the tune at all but we'll see.
I'm also gonna wire up the TB button for a boost launch time delay as well as wheel speed sensor for boost control by speed.
I'll post pictures of the kit when it arrives today and the install.
2025 is gonna be lit!!!
Worked as a compressor/engine engineer for about a decade getting paid to design this kind of stuff - then worked for race folks for about 15 years.
Its not a false reading. That is the temperature reading from the evaporation. You may get some inlet air temperature stratification, but that is your inlet temperature. An IC setup can make more power than a sprayed cooled setup because whatever you are spraying, it displaces the oxygen. When the fuel evaporates into the air, that portion of the volume is no longer carrying oxygen and you can't get that percentage of O2 into the cylinder. Its the same principle why direct injection makes more power than sequential injection makes more power than a carburetor. Direct injection avoids the displacement effect by spraying in fuel after the intake valve closes. Sequential tries to minimize this effect by using a laser-style injector to puddle fuel behind the intake valve. If you just straight up evaporate the fuel into your intake track, you can cut your potential power by whatever the inverse of your a/f ratio is - and because alcohol has a pretty low target a/f, its a pretty big percentage. So, despite your intake air being very-very cold the fuel you used to cool the charge is taking up space that would otherwise carry oxygen and it limits your power compared to a similar setup using just straight up cold air at the same temperature.
In addition to the above problem, there is a saturation limit to how much cooling you can accomplish with methanol. Methanol is evaporating due to partial pressures (the same principle that makes water evaporate at room temperature), so at some point, you saturate the air with so much methanol that it will no longer turn to a gas and will remain at a liquid (the same principle why we have rain). Once you hit this point, the cooling effect stops no matter how much methanol you spray in - and at that point, yes, it creates wet mess.
Its not a false reading. That is the temperature reading from the evaporation. You may get some inlet air temperature stratification, but that is your inlet temperature. An IC setup can make more power than a sprayed cooled setup because whatever you are spraying, it displaces the oxygen. When the fuel evaporates into the air, that portion of the volume is no longer carrying oxygen and you can't get that percentage of O2 into the cylinder. Its the same principle why direct injection makes more power than sequential injection makes more power than a carburetor. Direct injection avoids the displacement effect by spraying in fuel after the intake valve closes. Sequential tries to minimize this effect by using a laser-style injector to puddle fuel behind the intake valve. If you just straight up evaporate the fuel into your intake track, you can cut your potential power by whatever the inverse of your a/f ratio is - and because alcohol has a pretty low target a/f, its a pretty big percentage. So, despite your intake air being very-very cold the fuel you used to cool the charge is taking up space that would otherwise carry oxygen and it limits your power compared to a similar setup using just straight up cold air at the same temperature.
In addition to the above problem, there is a saturation limit to how much cooling you can accomplish with methanol. Methanol is evaporating due to partial pressures (the same principle that makes water evaporate at room temperature), so at some point, you saturate the air with so much methanol that it will no longer turn to a gas and will remain at a liquid (the same principle why we have rain). Once you hit this point, the cooling effect stops no matter how much methanol you spray in - and at that point, yes, it creates wet mess.
Also I can change my indicated inlet temps by simply moving the injection point close to the IAT probe. The closer I get the the IAT the cooler the temps report. Its a clear indication the probe is being wetted. And its pulling heat over time as that exposed probe is exposed to me as long as the system is active. While the surrounding air in the charge pipe is in/out of the motor in milliseconds.
The limit of the cooling properties is the boiling/flash point of the fluid. This was also proven in the dyno cell data provided by kevin jewer. over on yellow bullet as well.
Julio came back and said to target low 10's for AFR and use an aggressive ramp on the controller.
Add boost until it starts to move out of that low 10 AFR window so by low 10's I'm thinking anywhere from 10.0-10.3 which is just wild to me.
So if I reach the point where adding boost starts getting me out of that low 10 AFR window, I'm assuming I start adding fuel via the VE or PE tables?
I think I'll test the system at the current boost level of 14 lbs. maybe turn it up to 16 lbs. just to see what it does, gap the current plugs at .015", knock the timing down to 10* at 5,500+ rpm.
Then start turning it up on a fresh set of plugs, I've got two new sets so all good there.
It'd be great if I could get lucky and reach 20 lbs. without having to adjust the tune at all but we'll see.
I'm also gonna wire up the TB button for a boost launch time delay as well as wheel speed sensor for boost control by speed.
I'll post pictures of the kit when it arrives today and the install.
2025 is gonna be lit!!!
Add boost until it starts to move out of that low 10 AFR window so by low 10's I'm thinking anywhere from 10.0-10.3 which is just wild to me.
So if I reach the point where adding boost starts getting me out of that low 10 AFR window, I'm assuming I start adding fuel via the VE or PE tables?
I think I'll test the system at the current boost level of 14 lbs. maybe turn it up to 16 lbs. just to see what it does, gap the current plugs at .015", knock the timing down to 10* at 5,500+ rpm.
Then start turning it up on a fresh set of plugs, I've got two new sets so all good there.
It'd be great if I could get lucky and reach 20 lbs. without having to adjust the tune at all but we'll see.
I'm also gonna wire up the TB button for a boost launch time delay as well as wheel speed sensor for boost control by speed.
I'll post pictures of the kit when it arrives today and the install.
2025 is gonna be lit!!!
Good luck!
You're missing the point, but I don't think this will be productive. Folks can go look up the process I described in a lot of different literature and draw their own conclusions.
Last edited by NoGo; Nov 8, 2024 at 06:34 PM.
Every person in the world has empirical data that proves that the boiling/flash point of a fluid is NOT the limit of its cooling properties. Otherwise, sweating would not cool them off unless the temperature was at the boiling point of water. Human life would be impossible. There are mountains of other data that also proves cooling by evaporation, but every human who ever existed seems like enough data points.
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Verdad Gallardo Still thinking it #7 will be the hottest hole even though I'm not using a factory intake?
Would it be worthwhile investing in some sort of plug cutting tool to read the porcelain or just look down the hole?
I've got a Dewalt die cutter that would probably work?
Every person in the world has empirical data that proves that the boiling/flash point of a fluid is NOT the limit of its cooling properties. Otherwise, sweating would not cool them off unless the temperature was at the boiling point of water. Human life would be impossible. There are mountains of other data that also proves cooling by evaporation, but every human who ever existed seems like enough data points.
We have the data from a 100% methanol fueled turbo motor (no IC) tested in an engine dyno cell. It was tested by removing up to 50% of its total fueling at the rail and spraying it pre turbo strictly for charge cooling purposes. The absolute coolest they could get the charge was *around* 150* (want to say it was more like 156*). Removing more fuel from the rails and spraying additional fuel pre turbo after that point did not lower the charge temps anymore and was no longer beneficial.
But up until that point... the pre-turbo meth injection pulls progressively improved up until that 156* point. From that data we also know that at 100 lbs/min airflow (1000 hp). Each 8gph of straight meth only drops roughly 15* out of the true charge temps. So the typical 10-15gph meth kit would do very little in terms of actual charge cooling.
To all that would try and argue with google links and research papers that arent’ specific to a turbo charged engine and methanol charge cooling… I say the same thing. DO IT! Get actual specific data and prove others wrong that actually have done it. Without that specific data and experience, you are just making educated guesses. Which is fine, but don’t act like its anything other than that.
It's probably not going to be productive, but the next methanol charge cooling engine I have on a dyno I'll post up the cooling data to make the point.
It's not. We're not being too literal or pedantic. What you are saying is just off by a lot. I'm not questioning your observations, but your conclusions are wrong.
It's probably not going to be productive, but the next methanol charge cooling engine I have on a dyno I'll post up the cooling data to make the point.
It's probably not going to be productive, but the next methanol charge cooling engine I have on a dyno I'll post up the cooling data to make the point.
Would love to see you prove it otherwise with legit data. Just don’t post some nonsense wetted sensor garbage data. A fixed thermocouple can’t measure charge temp accurately if any fluid is involved, period. Same deal with wetted intake manifolds and charge piping. You can have condensation and cold runners with 300* charge temps no problem. A fixed object will get progressively cooler as heat is pulled from it over time. If you have a 10 second run that same sensor is having the heat pulled from it for 10 seconds. The air is not stationary and is exposed for milliseconds. There is no time to repeatedly pull heat from it. Also, the mass of the fluid compared to the mass of the air is miniscule.
Let’s see an intercooled dyno pull run with X charge temp. Then remove the IC and use meth to wet the sensor enough to falsely display the same charge temp. Then show me the dyno sheet at the same boost showing the same power. It will never happen...
Your displacement theory is also plain wrong and proven many times over. The density increase always makes up for the space taken up by the liquid. This was proven to the extreme when kevin injected 126GPH into a tiny 2 liter engine with 1000hp worth of air. The dyno cell airflow and HP were all right where they should be for the boost, rpm, displacement, VE, and temp. So these wimpy kits spraying 15-20gph are doing diddly for air displacement or charge cooling.
If the charge temps reported were correct, the power numbers to the wheels per degree of cooler air temp would follow. They don’t. Yet they do with an intercooler… Why is that? If racers could have “intercooler like” power per pound of boost with meth injection alone, none of them would run the heavy intercooler systems.
I’d respectfully suggest keeping your comments to yourself if you aren’t willing to take the time to do something worthwhile and actually prove your point. Why comment at all if you aren’t?
I’ve personally done it, and have seen the results. Many times... over many years and many engines. If you don’t believe that, I don’t care. But its why I’m commenting.
Back to the topic at hand, what are the opinions on nozzle placement?
Twin nozzles obviously, on opposite sides of the pipe facing each other or staggered a little bit or both in line on the same side of the pipe or doesn't matter at all lol.
Also, methanol used, I can get a 5 gal. bucket of 99.65 pure methanol on amazon for $105.00 shipped which seems too good to be true.
VP M1 is $61.00 per bucket but with an absurd $150.00 for shipping.
Twin nozzles obviously, on opposite sides of the pipe facing each other or staggered a little bit or both in line on the same side of the pipe or doesn't matter at all lol.
Also, methanol used, I can get a 5 gal. bucket of 99.65 pure methanol on amazon for $105.00 shipped which seems too good to be true.
VP M1 is $61.00 per bucket but with an absurd $150.00 for shipping.
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Worked as a compressor/engine engineer for about a decade getting paid to design this kind of stuff - then worked for race folks for about 15 years.
Its not a false reading. That is the temperature reading from the evaporation. You may get some inlet air temperature stratification, but that is your inlet temperature. An IC setup can make more power than a sprayed cooled setup because whatever you are spraying, it displaces the oxygen. When the fuel evaporates into the air, that portion of the volume is no longer carrying oxygen and you can't get that percentage of O2 into the cylinder. Its the same principle why direct injection makes more power than sequential injection makes more power than a carburetor. Direct injection avoids the displacement effect by spraying in fuel after the intake valve closes. Sequential tries to minimize this effect by using a laser-style injector to puddle fuel behind the intake valve. If you just straight up evaporate the fuel into your intake track, you can cut your potential power by whatever the inverse of your a/f ratio is - and because alcohol has a pretty low target a/f, its a pretty big percentage. So, despite your intake air being very-very cold the fuel you used to cool the charge is taking up space that would otherwise carry oxygen and it limits your power compared to a similar setup using just straight up cold air at the same temperature.
In addition to the above problem, there is a saturation limit to how much cooling you can accomplish with methanol. Methanol is evaporating due to partial pressures (the same principle that makes water evaporate at room temperature), so at some point, you saturate the air with so much methanol that it will no longer turn to a gas and will remain at a liquid (the same principle why we have rain). Once you hit this point, the cooling effect stops no matter how much methanol you spray in - and at that point, yes, it creates wet mess.
Its not a false reading. That is the temperature reading from the evaporation. You may get some inlet air temperature stratification, but that is your inlet temperature. An IC setup can make more power than a sprayed cooled setup because whatever you are spraying, it displaces the oxygen. When the fuel evaporates into the air, that portion of the volume is no longer carrying oxygen and you can't get that percentage of O2 into the cylinder. Its the same principle why direct injection makes more power than sequential injection makes more power than a carburetor. Direct injection avoids the displacement effect by spraying in fuel after the intake valve closes. Sequential tries to minimize this effect by using a laser-style injector to puddle fuel behind the intake valve. If you just straight up evaporate the fuel into your intake track, you can cut your potential power by whatever the inverse of your a/f ratio is - and because alcohol has a pretty low target a/f, its a pretty big percentage. So, despite your intake air being very-very cold the fuel you used to cool the charge is taking up space that would otherwise carry oxygen and it limits your power compared to a similar setup using just straight up cold air at the same temperature.
In addition to the above problem, there is a saturation limit to how much cooling you can accomplish with methanol. Methanol is evaporating due to partial pressures (the same principle that makes water evaporate at room temperature), so at some point, you saturate the air with so much methanol that it will no longer turn to a gas and will remain at a liquid (the same principle why we have rain). Once you hit this point, the cooling effect stops no matter how much methanol you spray in - and at that point, yes, it creates wet mess.
Prob whatever is easiest! Lol
There has to be an ideal scenario for each specific setup but I don’t think its super critical.
IMO, Spraying in the direction of the airflow in the center of the pipe is ideal, but it’s not super practical. It would wet the piping walls the least. Maybe 45* angle in the pipe mounted to the wall if you can’t mount in the center.
Having them horizontally opposed just before the throttle body is pretty popular. Theory being that the droplets can smash into each other to add additional atomization. When the air is flowing through at a high rate though I’m not so sure I buy that the nozzles are close enough to really collide. Id guess that setup would wet the piping walls down quite a bit which is less than ideal.
Few good Youtube vids floating around that show what it looks like in the charge pipe. Its a mess!
Check out the Impingement style fogger nozzles by comparison. They are super impressive but even the largest ones only flow like 5gph at 200psi. They atomize the mixture so well it doesn't appear to be hitting the piping walls at all. your droplets would be huge by comparison.
There has to be an ideal scenario for each specific setup but I don’t think its super critical.
IMO, Spraying in the direction of the airflow in the center of the pipe is ideal, but it’s not super practical. It would wet the piping walls the least. Maybe 45* angle in the pipe mounted to the wall if you can’t mount in the center.
Having them horizontally opposed just before the throttle body is pretty popular. Theory being that the droplets can smash into each other to add additional atomization. When the air is flowing through at a high rate though I’m not so sure I buy that the nozzles are close enough to really collide. Id guess that setup would wet the piping walls down quite a bit which is less than ideal.
Few good Youtube vids floating around that show what it looks like in the charge pipe. Its a mess!
Check out the Impingement style fogger nozzles by comparison. They are super impressive but even the largest ones only flow like 5gph at 200psi. They atomize the mixture so well it doesn't appear to be hitting the piping walls at all. your droplets would be huge by comparison.
Last edited by Forcefed86; Nov 14, 2024 at 08:25 AM.
Spraying against the airflow creates more turbulence and changes the air next to the meth molecules more often - this encourages evaporation (because it is partial pressures) and minimizes the saturation effect I talked about earlier happening very locally.
Check out the Impingement style fogger nozzles by comparison. They are super impressive but even the largest ones only flow like 5gph at 200psi. They atomize the mixture so well it doesn't appear to be hitting the piping walls at all. your droplets would be huge by comparison.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlhKgk6Zq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQlhKgk6Zq8
Considering youtubes videos are now the hard data you were earlier insisting on how about this one:
The video clearly shows the displacement effect I was talking about earlier minimizing the HP of the methanol test. Also, they did temperature testing in each runner - and the less meth/alcohol in each runner the warmer the charge temp in that runner. Also, the temperatures he is displaying is well below your 150 deg F "boiling point" BS theory.
I look forward to your wall of text that moves the goal posts again.
Last edited by NoGo; Nov 15, 2024 at 08:50 AM.
No. You want to spray against the flow of air as best you can - and keep **** out of the airflow path.
Spraying against the airflow creates more turbulence and changes the air next to the meth molecules more often - this encourages evaporation (because it is partial pressures) and minimizes the saturation effect I talked about earlier happening very locally.
Really?!? No. When the droplets contact each other, they stick to each other due to surface tension and form a larger droplet - the opposite of what we are trying to do. If you are spraying water/meth, don't put the nozzles at each other if you can avoid it. The water doesn't vaporize and the droplets will bond together defeating some of the atomization. If you are doing 100% meth, it doesn't matter. The meth gasifies right as it exits the nozzle.
If they are spraying any amount of water, the water doesn't vaporize like the meth and you will see water impinged on the sides on the inlet piping and on inlet obstructions not because your boiling point BS "theory". Its like having fog stick to your windshield.
Maybe you missed the irony of that video. It shows things nearly gasifying ~1" out of the nozzzle at atmospheric conditions (ie. before the TB). That mist you see is the water trying to turn into a fog (go boil a pot of water to observe the vapor color) as it exits the nozzle. In a heated charge pipe under pressure you can shorten that 1" to just off the nozzle and with 100% meth, you will barely see just a light haze at the nozzle as it gasifies.
Considering youtubes videos are now the hard data you were earlier insisting on how about this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUv_TYT-E-E&t=921s
The video clearly shows the displacement effect I was talking about earlier minimizing the HP of the methanol test. Also, they did temperature testing in each runner - and the less meth/alcohol in each runner the warmer the charge temp in that runner. Also, the temperatures he is displaying is well below your 150 deg F "boiling point" BS theory.
I look forward to your wall of text that moves the goal posts again.
Spraying against the airflow creates more turbulence and changes the air next to the meth molecules more often - this encourages evaporation (because it is partial pressures) and minimizes the saturation effect I talked about earlier happening very locally.
Really?!? No. When the droplets contact each other, they stick to each other due to surface tension and form a larger droplet - the opposite of what we are trying to do. If you are spraying water/meth, don't put the nozzles at each other if you can avoid it. The water doesn't vaporize and the droplets will bond together defeating some of the atomization. If you are doing 100% meth, it doesn't matter. The meth gasifies right as it exits the nozzle.
If they are spraying any amount of water, the water doesn't vaporize like the meth and you will see water impinged on the sides on the inlet piping and on inlet obstructions not because your boiling point BS "theory". Its like having fog stick to your windshield.
Maybe you missed the irony of that video. It shows things nearly gasifying ~1" out of the nozzzle at atmospheric conditions (ie. before the TB). That mist you see is the water trying to turn into a fog (go boil a pot of water to observe the vapor color) as it exits the nozzle. In a heated charge pipe under pressure you can shorten that 1" to just off the nozzle and with 100% meth, you will barely see just a light haze at the nozzle as it gasifies.
Considering youtubes videos are now the hard data you were earlier insisting on how about this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUv_TYT-E-E&t=921s
The video clearly shows the displacement effect I was talking about earlier minimizing the HP of the methanol test. Also, they did temperature testing in each runner - and the less meth/alcohol in each runner the warmer the charge temp in that runner. Also, the temperatures he is displaying is well below your 150 deg F "boiling point" BS theory.
I look forward to your wall of text that moves the goal posts again.
For nozzle placement I'm going to place them in the pipe where it makes the turn up from under the core support and stagger them a little, so they aren't right across from each other.
This will help hide them and give me about two feet of pipe for the meth to hopefully fully mix into the air stream before going into the engine.
Thinking I may even start a build thread on the install, what do you guys think?
