Good morning fellow meth heads,
So, I did a thing this weekend, I ordered a full tilt Alky Controls methanol injection kit with all the bells and whistles.
The kit consists of a 2 Gal. cell w/ level sensor and billet cap, high pressure pump, harness and lines, twin M15 nozzles w/ 2.5 bar MAP and progressive controller w/ pressure switch.
Just for a reference, Julio at AC uses this same kit on his personal car running a 348ci engine, 88mm turbo at 28 lbs. of boost and 20* of timing so a very similar application.
I will be tying the pressure switch into my Cortex EBC so if it doesn't see meth system pressure, then boost will be limited to gate pressure which is about 6-7 lbs.

The car is currently tuned for 91 pump gas at 14 lbs. of boost w/ a Lambda of .75 using the factory ECU and HP Tuners.
At this time, I will continue to use 91 pump gas exclusively with the meth kit spraying 100% methanol.
My goal is to get into the 20lb. range with maybe a scramble button option or hero 25-28lb. setting, no rwhp goal, it'll make what it will make.
Julio gave me a couple options for nozzle location, one being right below the bend in the intake pipe on the passenger side where the pipe comes up through the core support (this would be pre IAT sensor) and the other being right in front of the TB with the nozzles in the silicone coupler (this location would be post IAT)
I like the first location because I can hide the nozzles better and possibly use the RIFE IAT sensor to pull fuel and advance timing when the meth is spraying but some suggest the second location and not "wetting" the IAT sensor, would love some feedback from actual users on this topic.
Current IAT's are very low so I don't need the IAT reduction aspect just the added fueling, typical IAT's are 90 to 105 degrees F on a full pull with the A2W pump running with ambient water, ice water will be used when the meth is being used in the 20+ lbs. range.
Timing is currently 12-12.5 degrees from 5,000 rpm all the way to 7,500 rpm so plenty safe, I'm imagining I may need more lead when really leaning on this kit.
Plugs are BR7EF gapped at .022" iirc.

So, with that all said, which nozzle location would you guys recommend and why?
It sounds like some guys wet the IAT and use the PE table to adjust AFR and also add timing, I'm using a RIFE fast acting IAT, so this method appeals to me unless someone advises otherwise while others spray post IAT and use the VE table?

What is the recommended process for tuning with 100% meth using HP Tuners?
I did some reading, and it sounds like you start spraying, and begin pulling fuel to reach the desired safe AFR.
If its rich, can I just start adding boost until the AFR gets in line, then add more meth if the desired boost level has not yet been reached?
Would I only adjust the cells in the VE table (or PE table?) with a negative reading indicating the ECU pulling fuel and adjust until I'm back to .75 lambda?
Then once fueling is set, start adding timing and reading plugs or looking for knock?

Any help as always is greatly appreciated; the kit should be here by the end of the week with install taking place over the next couple months.

 

I personally pull out fuel in the PE table for meth injection so it doesn't skew the torque and airflow readings. Not as important if it's a TH400 obviously but it keeps everything else accurate. I also am not a fan of spraying the IAT sensor on a speed density application as that skews it rich to begin with, then you have to pull out even more fuel for the meth. Of course that means you can't use the IAT tables to add/remove timing when it's spraying but even the fast acting sensor has a lag to it that I wouldn't rely on.

What is your compression ratio? If you are already at 14 psi on 91 oct I assume it's lower than stock.

 

I can't say what it is unfortunately, but the engine does have a slightly dished forged piston and 317 heads so I'm guessing probably around 9:1 or 9.5:1?
I've run it up as high as 15.5 lbs. and no knock was recorded in HP Tuners.
So, you prefer to place the nozzles closest to the TB then, post IAT sensor.
If I don't use the IAT to add/subtract timing, I would then need a separate tune for using meth because if I add timing when using meth but am running pump gas only on a lower boost setting, I will damage the engine correct?
This isn't a huge problem since running meth will require some preparation anyways so swapping in a different tune isn't pivotal.

 

If I'm running meth it's run 100% of the time regardless of boost level, etc so I don't change tunes and yes I would put the nozzles up by the throttle body. At that compression you will probably be fine to run it up to low 20ish psi or so but it's still playing with fire in my opinion. Meth injection can make up for a lot of deficiencies with 91 octane but at the end of the day that 91 is still pretty volatile. Yes some people get away with really cranking it up, but I see all of the time where people don't because they got a **** tank of 91.

 

My other thought was that if I'm really going to lean on it in the 20+lb. range that I would throw 5 gal. race gas in the tank for safety.
I've been buying my fuel from the same station for decades and so far, so good so there isn't much I can do about that.
I'm also not against just keeping the timing low and adding boost only provided the meth isn't blowing out the spark.
Just because others get away with 20* doesn't mean I will lol.
I think the guys adding timing are not adding boost and just trying to make more power at a fixed peak boost number, I could be wrong.

 

I'm self taught on hp tuners so take what I say as FWIW lol, if you're VE table is and has been good up till now I would be adjusting fuel with the PE and BE tables . Probably start with asking Julio about settings on the progressive controller ( mines simple on/off ) then like you said do pulls with logs and adjust carefully until you are happy - good afr and no kr . You can still pull timing from high IAT weather or not you are wetting the sensor , logs would tell you where to start pulling. Wetting the sensor with your already fairly cool IAT may drop the reading quite a bit and cause an overly rich AFR which could make getting the AFR right a bit more difficult. My AFR stays pretty consistent in or out of boost but I don't have A to W or a rife sensor , I spray about 10 g/hr pre TB and sensor and 5 pre turbo . Hope this helps a tiny bit

 

I run 91 octane in mine too my engine is 9.3:1 CR, 20 psi @11-12* timing. I have an AEM v3 kit progressive controller dual nozzle spraying 2000cc of boost juice starts spraying at 6 psi and all in by 15 psi my nozzles are about 18 inches from the TB but before the IAT sensor. Holley Dominator ecu with NTK wideband o2. Plugs are BR7EF @ .026". It's been working great so far for me I just had the heads off to install Johnson lifters and everything looked mint.

 

Excellent, I'm right down in Tacoma, WA so we're both running the same crappy fuel lol.
Have you ever gone higher than 20psi?

 

LOL yea same crappy fuel. No I didn't get the chance to go beyond that yet. I had another failing racetronix pump that dropped pressure as more load came on. Got that all fixed with 2 new Walbro 350 pumps but it's been raining here for the last couple weeks so the car will be in bed until spring now. I'll creep past 20 right away in the spring I have internal logging setup to start once I go past 16 psi. Checking plugs it looks like I could put a bit more timing but it's hard to tell being that it's a street driven car.