Customized STS Twins
12-15-2004, 09:13 PM
#61
Thats almost exactly what Im doing..except Im using JBA shorty stainless steel mufflers...the exhaust will be stainless and may be wrapped...been discussed. Lastly I have a front mount in the car from the CAS system...It will be tuned, probably by NoGo, and I have 72lb injectors at this point.
Keep in mind, these turbos were designed with the intention of being rear mounted..as much as possible.
Keep in mind, these turbos were designed with the intention of being rear mounted..as much as possible.
Originally Posted by Chris ARE 385
If you are going to do this I would consider the following 
1) Dont bother with mufflers
2) Run stock 00 and up manifolds and a custom 2.5 inch ORY into an Xpipe and then dual 2.5 over the axle. Stainless steel and wrapped would be your best bet to retain heat in the pipe. The turbos will muffle the sound well.
3) Finally make sure there are NO leaks ANYWHERE on the exhaust side and go with an OBX or similar air to air in the front with big injectors and good programming.
I think with the cast manifolds, stainless steel piping/Xpipe and wrapping it'll spool half decent if you size the turbos properly.
1) Dont bother with mufflers
2) Run stock 00 and up manifolds and a custom 2.5 inch ORY into an Xpipe and then dual 2.5 over the axle. Stainless steel and wrapped would be your best bet to retain heat in the pipe. The turbos will muffle the sound well.
3) Finally make sure there are NO leaks ANYWHERE on the exhaust side and go with an OBX or similar air to air in the front with big injectors and good programming.
I think with the cast manifolds, stainless steel piping/Xpipe and wrapping it'll spool half decent if you size the turbos properly.
12-15-2004, 09:14 PM
#62
Perhaps I can change that view somewhat. perhaps not.
Wonder what it would take to be appreciated...10's???
Wonder what it would take to be appreciated...10's???
Originally Posted by term
I am wondering, STS does not seem like a "hard core" turbo setup, and thats the first thing that comes to mind when I think twin turbo.
12-15-2004, 09:15 PM
#63
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PurEvl, the turbos they use are the same as all other units. They may use smaller A/R's, but that doesn't change the overall structure of the turbo.
Jammer, don't worry, you can always have the compressor sides swapped and keep the same exhaust turbine. Also are those 76mm turbos measured at the inducer?? Cause the way they were described they sound like they are using exducer sizes. Just curious.
Also as for tubing, velocity at this point is much more important then total flow. So stick with a smaller piping and reduce heat loss as much as possible. That is what kills the system.
Jose
Jammer, don't worry, you can always have the compressor sides swapped and keep the same exhaust turbine. Also are those 76mm turbos measured at the inducer?? Cause the way they were described they sound like they are using exducer sizes. Just curious.
Also as for tubing, velocity at this point is much more important then total flow. So stick with a smaller piping and reduce heat loss as much as possible. That is what kills the system.
Jose
12-15-2004, 09:21 PM
#64
STS will not likely involve themselves as the kit will not be for sale..this is a custom fabrication. STS has provided verbal support for the project and material support in the form of opinions and other offerings. They were not directly involved with turbo selection...that was done with many hours staring at equations involving each and every variable I could think of...then my results were modified by someone smarter than me... plenty of those out there.
Whats missing out there is testing results..as in "I did this , and this happened" whats out there in abundence is "Theory". Fock Theory... I'm an engineer..I'm sick of theory.
Whats missing out there is testing results..as in "I did this , and this happened" whats out there in abundence is "Theory". Fock Theory... I'm an engineer..I'm sick of theory.
Originally Posted by PurEvl
Maybe sts can chime in here since there turbos are not the typical compressor maps, so I have heard, i have no proof of this.
12-15-2004, 09:27 PM
#65
Jose, I appreciate the input.. I cant answer your question as to where they were measured...I could have 2 months ago when I ordered them. I crammed for the exam and forgot alot.
Remember, ditch theory, screw physics and pray hard. Thats what I do.
Remember, ditch theory, screw physics and pray hard. Thats what I do.
Originally Posted by JZ 97 SS 1500
PurEvl, the turbos they use are the same as all other units. They may use smaller A/R's, but that doesn't change the overall structure of the turbo.
Jammer, don't worry, you can always have the compressor sides swapped and keep the same exhaust turbine. Also are those 76mm turbos measured at the inducer?? Cause the way they were described they sound like they are using exducer sizes. Just curious.
Also as for tubing, velocity at this point is much more important then total flow. So stick with a smaller piping and reduce heat loss as much as possible. That is what kills the system.
Jose
Jammer, don't worry, you can always have the compressor sides swapped and keep the same exhaust turbine. Also are those 76mm turbos measured at the inducer?? Cause the way they were described they sound like they are using exducer sizes. Just curious.
Also as for tubing, velocity at this point is much more important then total flow. So stick with a smaller piping and reduce heat loss as much as possible. That is what kills the system.
Jose
12-16-2004, 05:26 AM
#67
even in corky bells book max boost, he states if your not sure what size primaries to the turbo to use, use the smaller size, velocity is more important.
not wishing you to fail, just hope it works out for you.
Main things to focus on would be maintaining gas velocity which would include small tubing, and smallest, lightest turbo wheels that you need, make sure your using all the turbo you can pushing it to its limit.
not wishing you to fail, just hope it works out for you.
Main things to focus on would be maintaining gas velocity which would include small tubing, and smallest, lightest turbo wheels that you need, make sure your using all the turbo you can pushing it to its limit.
12-16-2004, 07:47 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by Jammer
Perhaps I can change that view somewhat. perhaps not.
Wonder what it would take to be appreciated...10's???
Wonder what it would take to be appreciated...10's???
12-16-2004, 05:48 PM
#72
Are you going to use Stainless steel all the way through for your exhaust (to the turbo)? That should help some. Also do you think a stepped design for the intermediate pipping work? Sort of like a reverse of the stepped header design. Going from 2.5" to 2.25" latter down the line. JZ what do you think?
I do like the MAX BOOST book by Corky Bell. Lots of good info. Very indepth, although not to an engineering level.
I do like the MAX BOOST book by Corky Bell. Lots of good info. Very indepth, although not to an engineering level.
12-16-2004, 09:09 PM
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This is a great thread, you guys are all hilarious, especially the twin Jay Z motor.....I'll have to finish reading this tomorrow, I better get back to studying for my Corporate Finance final tomorrow
12-16-2004, 10:09 PM
#74
I like some of what corky has to say when he voices his opinion...and love when he teaches me the equations (most of which I used in sizing), but perhaps he will need to make an extra chapeter now that rear mount are proving they do make some power...never said they were front mounts...just said "some power".
Originally Posted by smokinHawk
even in corky bells book max boost, he states if your not sure what size primaries to the turbo to use, use the smaller size, velocity is more important.
not wishing you to fail, just hope it works out for you.
Main things to focus on would be maintaining gas velocity which would include small tubing, and smallest, lightest turbo wheels that you need, make sure your using all the turbo you can pushing it to its limit.
not wishing you to fail, just hope it works out for you.
Main things to focus on would be maintaining gas velocity which would include small tubing, and smallest, lightest turbo wheels that you need, make sure your using all the turbo you can pushing it to its limit.
12-16-2004, 10:16 PM
#75
To answer the post above...yes its stainless exhaust..for numerous reasons..mostly heat retention...gotta keep what little will be left. I may even wrap the last 2/3rds.. not sure.
Were off to a quicker start than anticipated...car gets started early next week...parts delivery will be a delay however..but should have some begining pics before new years...complete ex system by the 7th and ready to tune by the 31st of Jan if all stays reasonably on schedule.
I want to know this...SmokinHawk and Joes...what would it take for you to consider this a success? Now dont go saying 9's and dont say 145mph in the 1320.. if thats what it takes than your expecting more than me. If thats what it will take then you misunderstand the point of what I am building.
Then again, Im always a pestamist.
I'd like to see 1.65 60's, maybe 106 in the 1/8th and 132 in the 1/4. What I want is the 40-140 stomp that requires an occasional new set of under roos.
If I wanted 9's or better I'd have turbos hanging out the hood...but thats the next project..can cut the hood on my 30th..thats sacreligious. Then again if I wanted that it would be a rocket block sbc.
Were off to a quicker start than anticipated...car gets started early next week...parts delivery will be a delay however..but should have some begining pics before new years...complete ex system by the 7th and ready to tune by the 31st of Jan if all stays reasonably on schedule.
I want to know this...SmokinHawk and Joes...what would it take for you to consider this a success? Now dont go saying 9's and dont say 145mph in the 1320.. if thats what it takes than your expecting more than me. If thats what it will take then you misunderstand the point of what I am building.
Then again, Im always a pestamist.
I'd like to see 1.65 60's, maybe 106 in the 1/8th and 132 in the 1/4. What I want is the 40-140 stomp that requires an occasional new set of under roos.
If I wanted 9's or better I'd have turbos hanging out the hood...but thats the next project..can cut the hood on my 30th..thats sacreligious. Then again if I wanted that it would be a rocket block sbc.
Last edited by Jammer; 12-16-2004 at 10:21 PM.
12-17-2004, 04:16 AM
#76
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Hey Jammer could you run one turbo smaller then the other for faster spool up time? Then the second is bigger for the top-end. I think supra's come something like that from the factory?? I would think a rear set up like that would work nice.
12-17-2004, 05:56 AM
#77
i already consider the STS systems a sucess, they worked alot better then i thought they would when they came out. its an orignal idea, and easy to install, its cheap too, but when you start to upgrade, with things like bigger turbos, and an IC your up about the cost of a traditional setup.
ME i wouldnt do it, thats me, id rather go to a more effient set up when im trying to squeeze the most out of it and not waste anything. You have to admit they arnt as effient, and you have to comprimise for it.
i tell you this STS desease is spreading all over, yesterday i called up a friend to see what he's doing to his camaro as last month he decided that he wanted to go turbo, well yesterday he tells me that he read an article about the sts system in gmhp and he tells me that he's probably going to go with that. I think he'll change his mind once he rides in my car once i get it done though.
ME i wouldnt do it, thats me, id rather go to a more effient set up when im trying to squeeze the most out of it and not waste anything. You have to admit they arnt as effient, and you have to comprimise for it.
i tell you this STS desease is spreading all over, yesterday i called up a friend to see what he's doing to his camaro as last month he decided that he wanted to go turbo, well yesterday he tells me that he read an article about the sts system in gmhp and he tells me that he's probably going to go with that. I think he'll change his mind once he rides in my car once i get it done though.
12-18-2004, 12:18 AM
#78
Originally Posted by smokinHawk
i already consider the STS systems a sucess, they worked alot better then i thought they would when they came out. its an orignal idea, and easy to install, its cheap too, but when you start to upgrade, with things like bigger turbos, and an IC your up about the cost of a traditional setup.
ME i wouldnt do it, thats me, id rather go to a more effient set up when im trying to squeeze the most out of it and not waste anything. You have to admit they arnt as effient, and you have to comprimise for it.
i tell you this STS desease is spreading all over, yesterday i called up a friend to see what he's doing to his camaro as last month he decided that he wanted to go turbo, well yesterday he tells me that he read an article about the sts system in gmhp and he tells me that he's probably going to go with that. I think he'll change his mind once he rides in my car once i get it done though.
ME i wouldnt do it, thats me, id rather go to a more effient set up when im trying to squeeze the most out of it and not waste anything. You have to admit they arnt as effient, and you have to comprimise for it.
i tell you this STS desease is spreading all over, yesterday i called up a friend to see what he's doing to his camaro as last month he decided that he wanted to go turbo, well yesterday he tells me that he read an article about the sts system in gmhp and he tells me that he's probably going to go with that. I think he'll change his mind once he rides in my car once i get it done though.
12-18-2004, 01:50 AM
#79
I think those were sequential..and I dont think I'll need it...but good thinking..we thought of it..in fact, I'd like to do 3 sequentials and see what the hell happened..maybe another car on another day...I just am done with theory...As a kid I was told not to mix baking soda with vinigar too...you know what./... I made a hell of a mess...but it was fun...lotsa fun.
Originally Posted by HellRaiser
Hey Jammer could you run one turbo smaller then the other for faster spool up time? Then the second is bigger for the top-end. I think supra's come something like that from the factory?? I would think a rear set up like that would work nice.
