S_J_H

14 times??
I would have quit after one run and looked to see who stole my blower !!!

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Anything over 800rwhp on pump 93 on a Dynojet 248 with the latest software works for me.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

I accept the challenge. Just let me know where and when I need to go.

Thanks for the opprotunity
Bryan

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Remember, I was thinking that the problem was me. I was spinning out the hole for the first 30-40 feet. I had no experience, and didnt know what to expect. There were about 20 or people at the track that knew about the car, and they were giving me advice, but they were telling me that with the 275/45/17 with 32psi, I was not going to get a good time. So if you take that into account, it was an educational 14 times. It took me 14 times to get the best time. So I was learning with each run. My time was better than the other guy who drove it who has a lot more experience. Worst case the car would be running rich, if you look at the video, there is black smoke coming out of the exhast during each shift.

The gauge that I bought has a memory on it so I can see peak PSI peak air intake temp, but when the throttle closed, boost went high, so I could not get an accurate reading. Now it is hooked up correctly. Trust me now I know the difference.

Maybe I could get some help from you all on the forum to tell me what to do for drag wheels and tires. I dont mind buying weld, or bogart.

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

Keith- Thanks, but you guys are the ones that did the excellent work. This setup truly kicks ***.

It's really nice to be able to change boost levels on the same tune.

4bar? LOL. I've tried 28lbs, but no way in hell I'm going over 30.

Bryan- apparently you had alot of issues with your car. I guess that's the point I'm trying to make.

It seems you always downplay others results with "what does it do on 93, 93 makes it a true street car" thing.

You've made some dyno runs, and had issues at the track. How many miles are on your setup?

I guess what I'm trying to say is, you come on here telling everyone that it's safe to run 800+rwhp on 93 octane, when your combination has not proven itself.

If you had dynoed your car, (which you did, but why only 5,800rpm's?), put a signifigant amount of miles on the street, and ran good numbers at the track, all on 93 octane with minimal knock and no carnage, than I would say your accomplishing your goals, but still taking a huge risk.

So you are at 10lbs of boost and 17deg of timing on a 9.8-1 427. That is not alot of boost or timing, but 820rwhp is still way too much power (IMHO) to safely run 93 octane in a relatively heavy car.

It's not only boost/timing that dictates octane requirements, it's also load/gearing/horsepower/etc.

I entirely believe your dyno results on 93 octane. I also think that once you start racing the car with that amount of power on 93 octane, you will break something. (It's quite a bit more load than a quick dyno run in 4th gear).

Too each his own. I spend 15k on an engine, and fuel costs me about 3.25 dollars per gallon. (1/2 93 @ 2.20 1/2 110 @ 4.30). Ran the hell out of it on the street and track for a couple years/15k or so miles, driveability is perfect (cam is quite a bit smaller than yours), and oh yeah, 9's at almost 150. (also ran 11.7 @140 on stock tires going sideways through the 1/8)

You spend what, maybe 50K on your engine? (just a guess), and you spend 2.20 per gallon on fuel. You made some dyno pulls, had issues at the track.

But, you ask if running race fuel on the street gets expensive? Hell, I could grenade 3 engines and still have enough money left over to buy 1000 gallons of race fuel.

So I guess I really don't understand the whole money angle, and I really don't understand why someone would invest so much time and money into a top of the line setup, only to risk breaking it by running cheap fuel.

If that is your goal, than so be it. You should be accomplishing your goals and doing what makes you happy. It just aggrevates me when you post on every dyno thread and proclaim a car not a true street car because we are not risking destroying it on 93 octane.


Noyzee- I have been tuning these cars in open loop. I've never completely disabled the knock sensors, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

Mightymouse- I believe the valvesprings to be fine. There was no signifigant dropoff. The graph is a bit wavy due to the boost controller trying to find target boost.

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Damn........ You got me convinced.......

one bad 96 gt

speed inc is the best

Wicked_Hugger99

iTrader: (1)

seeing as how im new to the turbo thing hopefully you'll excuse what might seem a dumb question but what does target boost mean? Does that mean its trying to level itself out?

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

This 3bar is great news. Continue feeding as much info as is available please.

Also, OT, B. Wilkinson, you really should enter the Hot Rod Pump Gas Race. Right up your alley, 93 octane, no other fuels etc....you shouldnt have to hard a time!

NA$TY-TA

iTrader: (21)

Ummmm those guys run mid 8's high 7's on pump 93 and drag radials..... he might have a hard time..... ha ha just a little...

GrahamHill

iTrader: (6)

I've noticed in my short time of studying FI engines that there are a lot of guys making big power on a dyno for a second or second and a half. It's nothing new at all.

I just thought everyone understood that anyone can make a powerplant pull a given number in a controlled environment or a very short amount of time. I guess not...

cablebandit

iTrader: (37)

awesome results. I'd love to get hp tuners with the 2-3 bar option but they seem to keep avoiding the cost/release info.

Intimd8 After seeing your results and Mike Browns, I am thinking of changing my cam to something like that in the future. You bring up a good point about dyno tune vs the street. I wonder when i dyno, if I am leaving some power on the dyno sheet by tuning on the street. No I don't care if that's the case but I am sure i'll get the "your dyno is low" responses. I actually want dyno to see my peaks so I can fine tune around those. If I gave you all my info, could/would you gimme an educated guess as to where my peak rpms are for tq/hp?

Pro Stock John

iTrader: (34)

Bryan, I think that Jim (Intmd8) commented better than I was, forget about the dyno test, I would much rather see the combo run over 140 mph at your weight.

We do get caught up in numbers, but dynoing is used for tuning for optimal performance. Like the other thread, I am wondering how removing the MAF from the setup affects the pcm's ability to make changes for DA?

frcefed98

iTrader: (16)

Get Keith into here or have someone in the know with the 3bar SD set up post up some specifics. It will help the lot of us that don't have access to Speed Inc's tuning wizards or to personally know Keith and his great ability to tune a car to its potential. Us guys stuck in the middle of nowhere reaallly need to get all the info they can on this set up. I will be getting it no doubt, its one of the main reasons I went with HP tuners plus they have a great site for accessing info etc... So the more SPECIFIC info the better. Its great reading and all but us lil dudes need all the help we can get.

HP tuners crew or intmd8 please shed some more info into this great feature of HP tuners.
J

RyanJ

go to hptuners' forum. There are several posts on tuning and setup w/ the 2-bar. 3-bar shouldn't be any different as far as that goes...just more numbers.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

I know what you mean, I am going to send my entry in, but I agree, they do run some really stupid numbers. It would be a good experience anyway if they accepted my entry.

eviltwins

Fastest car just dipped into the 8's, and there was only a single car that entered on drag radials.

Bryan Wilkinson

iTrader: (1)

Here's the deal, the issues I had at the track were lack of boost, because the blow off valve was stuck open, I do not believe that is an octane problem.

Why 5800, because it didnt make anymore power over that, on the dyno graph we went to 6200. 5800 was the peak.

Octane is used for nothing more than to reduce the amount of heat in the cylinder, to prevent detonation. If the A/F mixture is a little richer than what it would normally be, the same goals are achieved. Now lets go ahead and put all of these myths to rest. Everyone makes such a big deal about being safe with their motor. and gives me such a hard time for making claims about 93 Oct and 800rwhp.

How many people do you know that make 600RWHP and run 600RWHP all the time. The answer to that question is none, that number is a peak number, which means that you are at that point for a split second unless you are a circle track or closed course racer.
So are you saying that I need to be running race gas to protect my $50K motor for a split second. I think that is overkill and the people who have been suggesting it, dont understand what it is used for. If I was on a track running 6000 rpm for 15 hours then sure I think you would have a point, but 90% of the drving in this car is done on the street at part throttle, so I would guess I am lucky to see 400 RWHP. I feel pretty confident that my motor or anyone elses motor for that matter is good to go on 87 oct at 400RWHP provided the CR is not 12:1.

The whole point of using race fuel, adding water, alcohol, methynol, is to reduce detonation and that is done by controling the heat generated in the cylinder and to be quite honest, racing fuel is the worst of the ones I listed, because it is the least efficient in the burn process. Meth is #1, Alch is #2 and water is #3. When these turn to vapor they get cold, thus control the heat in the burn process by lowering the cylinder temp. The exact same thing can be done by running a richer mixture, which is still not as efficient as the 3 listed, but is 1/2 the price of race gas and a secondary system to be maintained is not required, making the install more reliable. The key is just not to run so rich as to wash the cylinder walls. That is how I am getting 26 MPG. At cruise I can run 14:1 to 15:1 with no problem because there is no load on the engine, and when I go into boost, at various stages in the VE table, I can add fuel. Ad for the timing, I am not sure that anyone would disagree that 17 degrees is not a safe place. Still dont believe me, go look at a stock LS1 car, and check the A/F at Idle, I think you will be a little surprised.

Obviously this discussion is open for a friendly debate. I just think that the whole race fuel thing is way over used and way misunderstood. Turbo, SC, N/A, for normal everyday driving it is a complete waste.

Armageddon

iTrader: (41)

Dude, where do you find race gas around here? Only place I've found is the airport... I'd rather run less boost then have to go to the airport everytime I run out of gas, which is a lot...

qqwqeqwrqwqtq

There is so much misinformation in that post I don't even know where to start.

Deep breath, here we go.


"Octane is used for nothing more than to reduce the amount of heat in the cylinder, to prevent detonation."


-Umm, no. The higher the octane, the less resistance it is to auto-ignition/pre-ignition (fuel igniting from the heat of compression, or hot spot), and detonation (an uncontrolled burn, multiple flame fronts colliding). Detonation can be the result of preignition, or can happen after the spark plug is fired.



"How many people do you know that make 600RWHP and run 600RWHP all the time. The answer to that question is none, that number is a peak number, which means that you are at that point for a split second unless you are a circle track or closed course racer.
So are you saying that I need to be running race gas to protect my $50K motor for a split second. I think that is overkill and the people who have been suggesting it, dont understand what it is used for."

-I guess I didn't understand what it was used for. I run my car at the 1000hp level on the street for a hell of alot longer than a split second. If I didn't, I could run 93 octane and have a street car too!


"The whole point of using race fuel, adding water, alcohol, methynol, is to reduce detonation and that is done by controling the heat generated in the cylinder and to be quite honest, racing fuel is the worst of the ones I listed, because it is the least efficient in the burn process. Meth is #1, Alch is #2 and water is #3. "

-Lol. Race fuel is the least efficient in the burn process? It is the most resistant to pre-ignition, and detonation, and has a faster burn rate.

Gasoline- up to 118/120 octane? 18,400btu/lb 14.7-1 stoich

Methanol- 101 octane 9,500btu/lb 6.4-1 stoich

Water- Strange that water is 3rd on your list for most efficient in the burn process, yet it is not flammable. Maybe you can tell me it's BTU content and stoichiometric air/water ratio


"The exact same thing can be done by running a richer mixture, which is still not as efficient as the 3 listed, but is 1/2 the price of race gas and a secondary system to be maintained is not required, making the install more reliable. "If the A/F mixture is a little richer than what it would normally be, the same goals are achieved. "

-Certainly the a/f ratio can alter an engines tendency to knock, but saying air/fuel ratio can be a substitute for a high octane fuel is completely false.


"I just think that the whole race fuel thing is way over used and way misunderstood. Turbo, SC, N/A, for normal everyday driving it is a complete waste."

-Well, I guess we just all assumed that when you build an 800+rwhp car that you will actually tap into that power. (I do). Some might argue that building an 800rwhp car and daily driving it on 93 octane is a complete waste. That, and you did say you were going to RACE your car on 93 octane. Certainly you will be in the throttle for more than "a split second" when you are at the track?