Just some info on testing with Nitromethane injection
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Yes we plan to up the % to 10. I am just concerned about the fuel system demands. I will probably test larger % on my own vehicle and see what happens. I have another engine in the works already so if she blows, just chalk it up to R&D...lol
Jose
Jose
Originally Posted by Sandmann120
One word of caution: Keep a close eye on your boost levels and your nitro mix. Nitro has a tendancy to run away, meaning that you can literally take away ignition, and it can continue to run. That means be careful of coming up near the rev-limiter. It can and will continue to climb unless you take away fuel. We don't even run an ignition cutoff on our car, we simply have to shut off the fuel supply to kill the engine.
I will agree with you on that-Sandman!
You Do need a hydrometer to properly mix nitro. The hydrometer that I have has a scale built in that will compensate for temp. Heat plays a huge role with how nitro is mixed, and mixing it by volume is a good way to purchase a new box of pistons. Trust me, I speak from experience on this one.
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Sand is correct. Temp changes play alot into nitro. Thats the reason why we let the race shop do it. Most race shops have the equipment and experience already.
Sand for the nitro getting out of control I have thought about that already. I figure though with the low % we are running I'm still safe. Also we have a toggle switch to shut the pump off directly. I would like to tie the pump to a window switch of some sort though.
Jose
Sand for the nitro getting out of control I have thought about that already. I figure though with the low % we are running I'm still safe. Also we have a toggle switch to shut the pump off directly. I would like to tie the pump to a window switch of some sort though.
Jose
Originally Posted by Sandmann120
You Do need a hydrometer to properly mix nitro. The hydrometer that I have has a scale built in that will compensate for temp. Heat plays a huge role with how nitro is mixed, and mixing it by volume is a good way to purchase a new box of pistons. Trust me, I speak from experience on this one.
Someone go post about puttin notromethane in ya tank on a handuh forum. They can do the r&d for us. lol. I have a couple litle questions though. Is the nitro workin like the meth is in that it doesnt make HP by it self it jsut allows for alot mroe timing? I know that you guys are saying that it is VERY important to have a good mix but if it is only 2% do you think taht it is that important? I mean if i accicentally do 3% or 1% instead is it that bad? If i lower my boost to 10 psi wher ei made 531 RWHP instead of the 12psi i am at now makin a little over 600 RWHP, do you think that i would make more power by usein the nitro adn alot of timing? I cant wait to forge my **** and get a fuel system that can handle tons of fuel so i can try this also. GJ guys!
John
John
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Nitro ADDS hp. Remember Nitro is an oxider, much like Nitrous, so it adds X amount of oxygen to the combustion process. Nitro also burns very slow so it allows you to add lots of timing. (I believe Top fuel cars run almost 60 degrees of advance, even with all the boost and cylinder pressure they make). Also due to it slow burning process, force on the pistons is extended over a larger amount of time, hence why it adds so much torque.
Originally Posted by JZ 97 SS 1500
Nitro ADDS hp. Remember Nitro is an oxider, much like Nitrous, so it adds X amount of oxygen to the combustion process. Nitro also burns very slow so it allows you to add lots of timing. (I believe Top fuel cars run almost 60 degrees of advance, even with all the boost and cylinder pressure they make). Also due to it slow burning process, force on the pistons is extended over a larger amount of time, hence why it adds so much torque.
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Verdad Gallardo On our car, we run a very high percentage of Nitro. There have been a few instances this summer alone that we have run it right out of the barrel, which tests out to about 108-112%, usually. At that high of an amount, the percentage isn't nearly as crucial as a system running under 10%. There, 2-3 percent difference can literally make or break your engine. That is where the hydrometer testing becomes more crucial. I realize that we are talking about VERY little nitro actually being introduced in the cylinder with a setup like you are talking about, but it is still something to keep a close eye on. Jose, good call on wiring in a switch to kill the pump. You will notice that it becomes more and more important as you increase percentages.
Originally Posted by JZ 97 SS 1500
1. The car will not respond to it unless static compression reaches at least 12.5:1. Optimal is around 14:1, which works out fine since their is no need for it at low boost.
3. The hp #'s over using just meth alone are ~12% over, but the torque #'s jump up quite impressively. As much as 19%. Keep in mind..this is only a ~2% mix.
3. The hp #'s over using just meth alone are ~12% over, but the torque #'s jump up quite impressively. As much as 19%. Keep in mind..this is only a ~2% mix.
For 2., what where you before and after numbers?
Keith
An injected nitro car generally runs very high compression, because it does not have the added benefit of boost. Yes, 14:1 would work very well on a nitro application. One thing to keep in mind is that we are not talking about very much nitro at all here. The common nitro tuning techniques don't really apply. Although, I have wondered for quite some time how a Gen III smallblock would respond to blown nitro. I'm talking 90+%. On our hemi, we run less than 400 cubic inches, and still get over 4,500 hp. I'm just curious as to how the wedge head design of the LS1s would work in that particular combination.
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This car is 8.5 static...on boost when we activate the least we start at is when dynamic reaches about 12.5:1. Optimal to start though is around 14:1. BTW, this is on an LT1 engine.
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Originally Posted by sb427f-car
Interesting test, but what about us little guys that can afford to shell out for someone to mix with a hydrometer and wouldn't really need the stuff unless it was for a money race
I think the "little guy" .....................
1.) should just use something like the snow nitro stuff that's already mixed.
2). just use some nitrous, even though about 50 percent oxygen from nitro has more power potential than the 30 - 33 percent (i think) oxygen of nitrous, I imagine nitrous is more forgiving.
3). Let these guys who can afford to break stuff finish their R&D, and also listen to those who know what they are doing and follow their advise closely and ..... and still be realistic and know something can break.
I might try it , when I get going, but I will be ready from broken parts, and also have a spare engine, pistons, and or transportation when or if I try.
And even still, I will probably just use a little, and try to stick to advise of those who have experience. From what I see , It can have great gains, but if you are not willing to accept the risk, wait for Jose and SAND etc or others that have REAL EXPERIENCE or use the Snow stuff or a shot of nitrous, and still , be ready, .... not neccesarrily expecting, ...... but ready if things go wrong. 
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I think something, somewhere is off in the numbers and or testing. I'll guess the spray system is probably using around a 15gph nozzle which is about the norm. 2% nitro is then only about .3GPH going into the motor.That is only about .64 of an ounce of nitro per minute!
Hey I know it's good stuff, but not quite that good.
A small RC engine can get a big boost from that but not a big Blown V8.
So IMHO you are using a lot more than 2% nitro in the tank if in fact any gains are from the nitro.
I would rather see Volume as the measurement since everybody can easily relate to that.
I have not tried any nitro in my motor blown. I have tried it N.A. though using the Price chemical stuff at 1qt of 40% per 5 gals of gas. That works out to 2% of the total fuel by volume.
It did not do a whole lot, maybe more midrange and maybe a tenth in et. I did not add any timing though.
I'm not knocking these tests. I am quite interested myself. I have talked it about this many times with friends. Usually it just ends up being Nitrous is a lot easier to deal with and I forget about it. But I do have a gallon of 30% sitting here that keeps catching my eye.
Steve
Hey I know it's good stuff, but not quite that good.
A small RC engine can get a big boost from that but not a big Blown V8.
So IMHO you are using a lot more than 2% nitro in the tank if in fact any gains are from the nitro.
I would rather see Volume as the measurement since everybody can easily relate to that.
I have not tried any nitro in my motor blown. I have tried it N.A. though using the Price chemical stuff at 1qt of 40% per 5 gals of gas. That works out to 2% of the total fuel by volume.
It did not do a whole lot, maybe more midrange and maybe a tenth in et. I did not add any timing though.
I'm not knocking these tests. I am quite interested myself. I have talked it about this many times with friends. Usually it just ends up being Nitrous is a lot easier to deal with and I forget about it. But I do have a gallon of 30% sitting here that keeps catching my eye.
Steve
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
Originally Posted by Rpm2800
I think the "little guy" .....................
1.) should just use something like the snow nitro stuff that's already mixed.
2). just use some nitrous, even though about 50 percent oxygen from nitro has more power potential than the 30 - 33 percent (i think) oxygen of nitrous, I imagine nitrous is more forgiving.
3). Let these guys who can afford to break stuff finish their R&D, and also listen to those who know what they are doing and follow their advise closely and ..... and still be realistic and know something can break.
I might try it , when I get going, but I will be ready from broken parts, and also have a spare engine, pistons, and or transportation when or if I try. And even still, I will probably just use a little, and try to stick to advise of those who have experience. From what I see , It can have great gains, but if you are not willing to accept the risk, wait for Jose and SAND etc or others that have REAL EXPERIENCE or use the Snow stuff or a shot of nitrous, and still , be ready, .... not neccesarrily expecting, ...... but ready if things go wrong.
1.) should just use something like the snow nitro stuff that's already mixed.
2). just use some nitrous, even though about 50 percent oxygen from nitro has more power potential than the 30 - 33 percent (i think) oxygen of nitrous, I imagine nitrous is more forgiving.
3). Let these guys who can afford to break stuff finish their R&D, and also listen to those who know what they are doing and follow their advise closely and ..... and still be realistic and know something can break.
I might try it , when I get going, but I will be ready from broken parts, and also have a spare engine, pistons, and or transportation when or if I try.
And even still, I will probably just use a little, and try to stick to advise of those who have experience. From what I see , It can have great gains, but if you are not willing to accept the risk, wait for Jose and SAND etc or others that have REAL EXPERIENCE or use the Snow stuff or a shot of nitrous, and still , be ready, .... not neccesarrily expecting, ...... but ready if things go wrong. oh no worries here mate, you don't see me jumping off the "gorge" bridge even with a parachute because it's "cool" or will give me more HP. I've learned from reading here pleanty that watch those with more experience and knowledge than I make the mistakes first to learn where the limits exist. Lol i didnt realize that it was safer to run nitrous then use this ****. That is just silly. I was contimplating using this in a very small amounts just to get a little boost but this seems to be like throwing a grenade at the engine. It is amazing that with only 2% of the 100% of meth and nitro that you are shoving in can overpower the 98% of meth to the point that it will make it run a couple points leaner. It definatly is tempting to try it out. Even if it costs 40$ a gallon you are gonna go through 50 gallons of meth before you use up that 1 gallon of nitro. I hope to hear alot more about this setup. GL guys
John
John
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Originally Posted by 99SS-T
Lol i didnt realize that it was safer to run nitrous then use this ****. That is just silly. I was contimplating using this in a very small amounts just to get a little boost but this seems to be like throwing a grenade at the engine. It is amazing that with only 2% of the 100% of meth and nitro that you are shoving in can overpower the 98% of meth to the point that it will make it run a couple points leaner. It definatly is tempting to try it out. Even if it costs 40$ a gallon you are gonna go through 50 gallons of meth before you use up that 1 gallon of nitro. I hope to hear alot more about this setup. GL guys
John
John
Last edited by Rpm2800; Jul 8, 2005 at 03:39 PM.
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From: Hazard Co. Maryland
From what I've been told about Air Racing @ Reno in the unlimited class, nitro is mainly the secrete weapon of the top teams out there and how they make in excess of 3000 HP (the numbers that most admit too). Of course, they need to make it last for about 4 minutes and 72 miles or so.
