Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

Please don't add any facts or truth to this thread... I'm enjoying the all the fiction!

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Nitro is an oxidizer, not just a fuel my friend. Pump gas and Nitro are 2 different things. By your theory I can just run straight Nitro in the tank....it will never gone lean since its slow burning right....hehe

Jose

Ponyhntr

iTrader: (9)

Expecially when the air/fuel ratio for nitro is close to 2:1!

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

So is methanol, it's also a fuel... just like nitro, your point??? This is why stoich for methanol is lower than that for gas and why it is even lower yet for nitro.

Well, yes actually. If the AFR is adjusted for it you most certainly could (of course this would not be wise for several reasons). What to do think the TF cars are running on??? About 98% nitro, if the NHRA would let them run higher %'s they would, but they don't for safety reasons.

There is a lot of false or fractionally true information in this thread. I really hope people don't read this stuff and take it as expert advise. Jose, I'm sure you are very knowledgeable about engines and what it takes to get a car quickly down the track, but it is very clear you don't have a clue about CH3NO2. I'm sure as you play with different injections and mixtures you'll make some power with this stuff and get a feel for how it works. Until you start to better understand what happens while injecting nitro, you really should keep this stuff of the internet as others will listen to threads like this and think it's 100% valid. I'm not trying to disrespect you or put you down in any way, I just hate to see others read some of the horse-**** in this thread and take it to the bank. I personally have chosen to not post my experiences injecting CH3NO2 because I'm certain others will cause major damage as this stuff is not something most people should be playing with. N2O works great and is far cheaper and safer for most people.

Best of luck with your endeavors!

sb427f-car

I thought the current Nitro rule was 85% of the fuel? Not that it really much matters now as they just up the fuel pressure and size of the lines to flow more fuel into the car (thus basically the same amount of nitro).

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

I think they are running up to 98%. I'm not certain what they are currently do, but I'm pretty sure it's somewhere between 93-98%... the remainder is methanol.

sb427f-car

Oh, wait do you mean that the current % that they purchase to mix with the methanol is 93-98% pure nitro? I'll buy that because I am almost dead certain that the rule is 85% of the fuel mixture in the car has to be nitro...OH WAIIIIIIT, you're talking about the injected cars. I that we were talking about TF. That might help.

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

LOL, you're correct. The CH3NO2 they are using is ~99.4-8% pure, the other .2-6% is nitroethane and nitro-propane residues from the manufacturing process (it's actually derived from propane).

Sandmann120

iTrader: (1)

The NHRA Top Fuel rules state that the mix can be no higher than 85%.

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

Thank you for the clarification on the max allowed mix. Wasn't it higher in the past?

Ponyhntr

iTrader: (9)

And no higher than 98% for injected nitro TAD's/A-fuel cars.

Ponyhntr

iTrader: (9)

Yes, it was 90% last year (for Top Fuel/Funny Cars).

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

I guess that is what I was thinking of. :shrug:

sb427f-car

I figured that's what you were getting at. No worries,

Phil99vette

iTrader: (11)

So can you run a direct port nitrous sytem with a 2% mix of Nitro/Alcohol for fuel?
Phil

Wet 1

iTrader: (4)

What's the point??? If you want more power just run more N20 and use methanol in your DP injection... that's a sick combo! No reason to use the nitro.

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

Wet, I understand your concern for other members and maybe their is something being confused here. Thats why we have not posted any results and will not till we have everything documented and tested. As for not knowing about nitro...we know a little . Also if you care to shed some light on the testing, please feel free to PM me. But simply taking a gasoline motor and spraying nitro in will lean it out..plain and simple unless you alter your fueling/mapping if not ugly things will happen. Looks like you are implying that running nitro will not lean the car out when presented into a straight gasoline combustion. Running a TF car on 85% nitro and purposely built for the fueling/tuning/nitro is a different case, if I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but thats not what is happening. Figures and byproducts are below for the mentioned fuels.

Gas
C8H18 + O2 + N2 = CO2 + H2O + N2
AF = 15.1

Meth
CH4O + O2 + N2 = CO2 + H2O + N2
AF = 6.4

Nitro
CH3NO2 + O2 + N2 = CO2 + H2O + N2
AF = 1.7

JZ 97 SS 1500

iTrader: (2)

BTW, we are always up for feedback, that is what this board is about. Trust me you won't hurt my feelings...hehe

S_J_H

JZ 97 SS 1500, If the gasoline engine has not had any gasoline subtracted or replaced with Nitro and the nitro is introduced into the engine as an additive fuel, then no it should not go lean.

If you had a lean and mean tuneup with a gas burning motor or combined gas/methanol system and then added in nitro to replace a certain % of the methanol or gasoline that was initially used, then yes of course it will go lean.

As has already been said, nitromethane is nothing like nitrous. Nitromethane is a fuel, unlike nitrous which is strictly an oxidizer and must have fuel of some type added to make the additional power. Nitromethane needs nothing else and can almost be considered a mono propellant.

The 2% nitro/98% methanol in a add on methanol system making any sort of measurable extra power is what I simply can't see as possible. That is such a tiny amount of nitromethane. 25-30%,yeah then that should be enough nitro ingested from the add-on system to make some power.

Engines make power with nitro because they can burn tremendous amounts because of the 1.7 A-F ratio. You don't make power with it by using half an eye dropper.I think you need to redo your testing because something is off.

I posted earlier I ran 2% total nitromethane content to 98% gasoline( max race from Price chemical) . As did a couple other friends. We did nothing to the pcm and no ugly things happened. Actually the o2 feedback just richened up the mix to compensate. But even a actual 2% nitro load related to the total amount of fuel used did not do all that much. You are stating you used much less than that if it was only added into the methanol system.

Here is a long thread on the subject of nitromethane used in a water/alcohol system ,Not sure how much good info is in it as I read it a while ago only half interested.-http://www.aquamist.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=451

here's some good basic nitromethane tuning info for the curious.http://www.turbofast.com.au/racefuel6.html

Steve

Brains

iTrader: (7)

Color me ignorant, but don't the very high mix nitro cars run on the brink of hydrolocking the cylinders? Not to mention, if nitro wasn't a fuel itself, you'd lose power as the mix got higher past where the original fuel has reached a 100% burn/expansion.