Am I the only one that wishes people would stop talking about PSI alone and start talking about Density? The pressure to temperature ratio will give a better indication of a setup's efficiency.

 

I still dont like rear mounts....

Yall need like a combination dry sump/ under pan mount turbo or something..

 

I wish people would, but it won't happen. People are too accustomed to talking in PSI which is a horrible way to rate something except restriciton. I means nothing when it comes to true aiflow.

10 psi of 150 degree air is not the same as 10 psi of 75 degree air. The amount of oxygen is totally different.

 

not to stir the pot, but for comparison sake. 224/114 cammed, Long tubes, P1 Procharger w/ 5psi, 505 rwhp on 91 octane. Just barely made 5psi at redline.........seems like someone has some power left on the table somewhere for 11 or 13psi.........

 

and another clueless person is born

Did you even read the thread?

Thats a good peak number for his car, but whats his average hp from 4500-6500 rpms? If you really want to get picky my car actually only made 450 rwhp on the dyno that day on 10 psi. It just corrects out to 492 rwhp.

Either way, on 13 psi I've been trapping 124-126, thats 24-26mph faster than a stock ls1 here in vegas.

 

So if you spend as much on a turbo for a V8 as one for a mitsu 4 and mount it in the back you can trap about 20mph faster in the 1/4 than I do in the 1/8th....

Not trying to do the import vs v8 thing but I really dont see alot of smart turbo systems on domestics... The LS1's heads flow about as good as any 2v pushrod architecture can. If the turbo kits were designed right the specific outputs would nip at the heels of turbo imports.

As far as sc's the vortech/pax etc with air to waters are nice as is the magnacharger.....

There just has to be a way to slip a turbo in those cars that is better.. You can put more energy into a turbine wheel closer to the source with the same amount of restriction and alot less lag...

 

I for one think your all nuts.
Looks to me that you loose a hole second in the ¼ in LV, that’s a lot.

I for one HATE sts turbo kits. HATE you here me!…

Now everyone can have turbo ls1’s that make big power for little bucks.
Turbos were for only the few who can afford them; that makes them rare and VERY special.

Now… low cost, easy install, everyone can get one. I think that SUCKS.

I want the only turbo car in town. I don’t want to see Joe blow get a turbo ls1 on a wim.
I for one have been dreaming of turbos all my life and been saving for a kit for years. FU sts kit guys. FU
The low budget, easy install guys are supposed to run blowers.

And enough with blowers vs. turbos, everyone knows witch is more efficient and makes more power, now get over it. Superchargers come on new mustangs. That should say it all.
Turbos come on porches and the like. Ask Enzo witch is better.

Have fun Zombie; a v8 w/ a turbo is something else.
BTW. I make close to 600rw… stock bottom end,,,still have AC …and when Im not hammering it I get 28mpg highway. That my friends is what turbos can do.

Thank you for a very interesting thread.

 

well I think somebody needs a hug or friend

 

Nice numbers.

 

thanks dr. obvious...I dont think anyone in this thread or on this board would disclaim that...sts turbos are an easy install & do make relativly good power on the dyno & with a properly setup car dont do half bad at the strip either. Packaging is the main concern on 4th gens...there really isnt much room to mount a single turbo or small duals + IC + piping...having 4 less cylinders to worry about has its benefits when it comes to packaging

 

I built a custom STS kit for a friend, BONE STOCK 98 A4..~295-300 stock depending on run. T63, non-intercooled, 10psi through a stock A4..478rwhp and 59x ftpds. Thats stock LS1 intake, not Ls6, stock manifolds, everything. Car runs like a dream with 60lb motrons and a 255...

Chris

 

Oh do I have something for you!


I'm #407... guess what I ran against?!?!?!? A FIRST GEN DSM! Looks like I got over 30 mph on those cars in the 1/8 when they upgrade their turbos. Just for reference a bolt on DSM on the stock turbo maxxed out will trap about 100 mph.

He beat me off the line, had a way better 60' and I still beat him by at the end (look at the win light). Don't know the details on his car, but it was heavily modded.

After that race he had the usual WTF look on his face as he asked what i had done to the car.

 

I have something for you...

Hmm mid 12's on a 1g...

http://www.dsmtimes.org/awd.htm

Hey look at all the SMALL 16Gturbo equipped cars running those times.

YOU KNOW WHAT THAT IS THE STOCK 1G MANUAL TRANS TURBO SERIOUSLY..

So you may actually have 30mph over them when they do a cat back, injectors front mount intercooler and up their boost controller.

It may have been bigger???? Just like LS engines one guy might be smarter than the other at building and tuning a car but i would not be surprised if it was a 16 or a EVO "big" 16g as there are plenty of them being sold since the EVO came here.. Not a HUGE upgrade. Look at the T25's the stock 2g turbo... Its a sissy....

I have a PTE SCM61 AKA a BR580 (rebadged PTE).. Look at that one... Lets just say I got booted for no cage and the only other DSMs around my ETs had FP3065's and up... That was with only the jack and spare removed.. Full leather pwr everything. Wide band closed loop rocks.

I think I know about DSM's the 1g manuals will trap better than a 2g with stock turbos due to better heads and turbo..

I have a 1g forged engine in my 2g...

This guy

10.62ET 130.80MPH 6.837ET 104.68MPH 1.61(60') 390 Eclipse GSX BR580 NO-N20 Jeremy Abraham

Was actually runing FAST EMS with closed loop wideband and ran that ET the first time the car ran with a new engine from pan to intake including a new turbo, fuel and IC setup... The whole car was new and untested. He broke a ujoint on the next run and had to stop.. used a cheap auto parts one... Put a OE in and it lived.

His is race gas and I run E98 at the track thru 1680cc injectors.. Alot more boost..A cooler denser charge. Very forgiving with even aggressive timing.

I'm kind of shh but I make umm generous use of the compressor map of this turbo which likes higher pressure ratios...

I did 60' between 1.6-1.7 with a trap above 140 I will say that much.

A guy running a big turbo at low boost may be at say a small 16gs peak efficiency island but he will be way out of his turbos efficiency sweet spot . Its like boring and stroking and not changing anything else. But up the boost and run it where it was designed CFM and PR wise and the little turbo is toast.

Yes there are lsx in the singles so are DSM's.... My point was never one car over the other just that a rear mount is a high$ per hp mod.

DSMs are us made and mine burns corn alcohol not rice... I also love the LS1 engine... However a turbo system is a turbo system and the domestic side of the house is still dragging its knuckles....

For the money I'd run a good N20 kit with a progressive controller.... Probably faster if I do it..... If I turbo'd I would find a better place for it somehow... Move something, knotch a firewall and tub it... that kind of stuff if I have to but it will be really close to the engine. Imagine getting even 65% of my 2.0 DSMs specific output churning out a 6.0 liter ls1. ~1200hp...

 

thats why i said i was postin for comparison sake, dont get stupid jackass.....just because people dont approve of your turbo on the wrong end....

 

The mitsu corporate turbos are not in lbs/min so I'll just compare garrets..

My turbos compressor map.



The PT67 uses a To4R compwheel.... I couldn't find a map... typical PTE but I know it is Very close to a T66.



A 79% vs 76% max efficiency range but look how it is more efficient across its entire range. The PT67 is similar.... Now A GT 67 would be alot closer... Since we would be comparing two garret GT series wheels...


A 1g's stock 16g moves 35#/min 520cfm
A 2g's have sissy T25 ??#/min 250-300cfm
I just used CFM on these to compare the two stock DSM turbos

The SCM61 is rated by PTE at 65#/min
The PT67 is +- not much to the T66 at 72#/min




Blah Blah Blah

Look at the turbo to radiator and block clearances when we go big with the turbo we need slimline fans and a fluidyne. We also need to sometimes massage a hard coolant pipe to clear the turbo.
Its tight in them too...

Fitment to a 4th gen
Incon.. they failed becaue they used turbos DSMers use for paper weights.. T25's...... Other than that they had the location worked out.... Should have ran the (G)T28s at minimum for the street, street and strip run 2(G)T30's and optimally 2 GT40's for race apps...


I just found out that the adapter there will be no bell housing adapter for one swap plan... I could use an Lt1 there is one for the old bell pattern... Looks like an Rx7....

 

I herd they failed because they lost 50 chrs in shipping with no insurance.
That’s why they sent all the last kits with no chrs.

But your right, those turbos are paper weights.
I think they were just designing for stock rigs and were looking for super fast spool time.
My gt2537’s are just a bit better then the regular gt2535’s that come with the kit.
Cablebandit has his 35’s maxed out I think and running 750rw.
Where they sit there is not much room left to go any bigger.

2. GT2537 – CHRA #700177-0011 w/ TO4S Compressor housing.
and here are the details on these:
....................<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>> <>
.....Wheel Trim...Model....Wheel Dia....HP.....Flow lbs....Trim.....Wheel Dia
………...52.........TO4S.....(2.17/3.00)...475.……50........90…….(2.11/2.22)

Maxed they might be good for 800rw.

 

I hear DSM's are good in the snow.

 

oh my at least all this talk motivates me to put the car together and go dyno at 10psi

no altitude to deal with here

 

Linky no worky...

 

Untill you throw wide z-rated tires on all 4 corners and drop it about 2.25"

Still rocks in the rain..... Bye Bye mustang...... say I was looking in my rearview mirror and you almost tagged that telephone pole... I shifted at about 2000 rpm before red line how about you.....

Modified you have to be as good as a Audi or Jag mechanic to keep it at its full potential....

I bet I can tune the sh*t out of a LS1.... To the point of destroying T56's and the car will still need less attention to keep dialed in than the DSM...