Looking to forge LS1 engine for future turbo/SC. Where to start?
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From: Minnesota
Looking to forge LS1 engine for future turbo/SC. Where to start? I want it done right, but not really over done, if that makes any sense. I would be looking to run 10lbs of boost.
Turbo vs Supercharger?
What Turbo kit to look for? (dont care for rear turbo STS kit, but it puts up nice numbers)
Procharger vs vortec Superchargers?
I really just want to talk engines.. I know the supporting mods Fuel, powertrain, stuff like that is for a later time.
Say I find an LS1 80,000 miles.. and my goal is to safely run 10 lbs of boost either Sc or Turboed. What NEEDS to happen to this engine to make this a dependable street/strip car? I like what power Heads and cam make. Can i have a nice 470 rwhp head and cam engine run this much extra boost (10psi)?
Hope the engine could come up with a strong 600-650 Rwhp, but not be strictly Track. Needs to run PUMP gas, and not be overly cammy (not too rough of idle)
I know this is quite a task to come up with all this info, but we can all benefit.
Do keep in mind i dont have real deep pockets. Want to stay away from nos, meth, all that... Strictly Forge, nice head/cam, and safely take 10-12lbs of boost.
at the end, Prices for parts, where to buy, and any tips/tricks would be appreciated as well!
Turbo vs Supercharger?
What Turbo kit to look for? (dont care for rear turbo STS kit, but it puts up nice numbers)
Procharger vs vortec Superchargers?
I really just want to talk engines.. I know the supporting mods Fuel, powertrain, stuff like that is for a later time.
Say I find an LS1 80,000 miles.. and my goal is to safely run 10 lbs of boost either Sc or Turboed. What NEEDS to happen to this engine to make this a dependable street/strip car? I like what power Heads and cam make. Can i have a nice 470 rwhp head and cam engine run this much extra boost (10psi)?
Hope the engine could come up with a strong 600-650 Rwhp, but not be strictly Track. Needs to run PUMP gas, and not be overly cammy (not too rough of idle)
I know this is quite a task to come up with all this info, but we can all benefit.
Do keep in mind i dont have real deep pockets. Want to stay away from nos, meth, all that... Strictly Forge, nice head/cam, and safely take 10-12lbs of boost.
at the end, Prices for parts, where to buy, and any tips/tricks would be appreciated as well!
Well that is quite a question ya got there little jimmy! I personally say go turbo as i have one and can attest to it being bad ***. Once ya got a forged engine more power it jstu a turn of the **** away.
Making 475 RWHP on a 346 engine woudl prolyl make it VERY not boost friendly. That is a **** load of power to get outta a 346 with no other mods with out extensive work.
Making 650 RWHP with FI is cake with a FI car that has a forged engine. You put 2k into forgin the engine get 6.0 heads a turbo and 12-14psi and you are set.
There is a ton of places hat you can get any and all of these parts and what you get really depends on waht you want. Alot of quality stuff out there. GL
John
Making 475 RWHP on a 346 engine woudl prolyl make it VERY not boost friendly. That is a **** load of power to get outta a 346 with no other mods with out extensive work.
Making 650 RWHP with FI is cake with a FI car that has a forged engine. You put 2k into forgin the engine get 6.0 heads a turbo and 12-14psi and you are set.
There is a ton of places hat you can get any and all of these parts and what you get really depends on waht you want. Alot of quality stuff out there. GL
John
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From: Minnesota
so your saying to forge an LS1 youd need about $2,000? Which parts need to be forged?
Forged Crank, rods, pistons? Anything else?
6.0 heads ported or stock? Are they the LQ9 heads or diff ones?
How much would 6.0 heads cost complete ready to bolt on to handle what i'm asking?
Could i safely see more HP than the 650 rwhp if i do get all forged?
Forged Crank, rods, pistons? Anything else?
6.0 heads ported or stock? Are they the LQ9 heads or diff ones?
How much would 6.0 heads cost complete ready to bolt on to handle what i'm asking?
Could i safely see more HP than the 650 rwhp if i do get all forged?
it sounds like your new to the world of FI,so i also take it that you havent done much in the way of building a motor....call up some sponsors and talk to them about a forged shortblock,as they can be really competitive and cost not much more than the parts alone would...start with horsepowerengineering and ls1speed as well as latemodelengines as they seem to be the most competitive....you can get a forged shortblock shipped to your door for less than $3k and itll hold alot more than 10psi.if you forged the motor you can make more than 650rwhp if its done right.For heads Lq9's are usually the way to go seeing as theyre like the LS6 heads but with a larger combustion chamber to drop the compression ratio.For a turbo kit,read the sticky at the top of this section.
Why not just hone the LS1 block, run the stock crank, throw in some upgraded rods and forged pistons, 6.0 heads and go from there. That should meet your intended power levels easily.
The power is in the heads/cam combo... but turbos can make inefficient heads perform miracles. You don't need kick *** heads to make good numbers... just turn up the boost a little more....
The power is in the heads/cam combo... but turbos can make inefficient heads perform miracles. You don't need kick *** heads to make good numbers... just turn up the boost a little more....
Originally Posted by gnx7
Why not just hone the LS1 block, run the stock crank, throw in some upgraded rods and forged pistons, 6.0 heads and go from there. That should meet your intended power levels easily.
The power is in the heads/cam combo... but turbos can make inefficient heads perform miracles. You don't need kick *** heads to make good numbers... just turn up the boost a little more....
The power is in the heads/cam combo... but turbos can make inefficient heads perform miracles. You don't need kick *** heads to make good numbers... just turn up the boost a little more....
you dont need great heads to make power,but they'll help.BUT from the sound of it he doesnt have experience tearing down a motor to do the work himself....so if he had the time,buy a forged shortblock get heads and a cam,and sell the motor in his car how to make back some $$$$.it makes sense My 348ci has forged pistons and rods. I am running a stock crank.
For a true budget build, I would do:
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
I think you'll be between $2500-3000 for a forged shortblock, but you really need to ask around.
You could ask tom@ls1speed.com for a quote, they did my shortblock and assembled my longblock.
For a true budget build, I would do:
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
I think you'll be between $2500-3000 for a forged shortblock, but you really need to ask around.
You could ask tom@ls1speed.com for a quote, they did my shortblock and assembled my longblock.
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
For a true budget build, I would do:
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
My 348ci has forged pistons and rods. I am running a stock crank.
For a true budget build, I would do:
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
For a true budget build, I would do:
forged pistons
forged rods
ARP head bolts
Thread Starter
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 817
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From: Minnesota
Great info guys! Keep it coming! Yeah, its obvious, but i should have mentioned i have never takin an engine apart, and have no knowledge of forged internals.. Stock crank can take 600-700 whp???
Dont laugh at me, but what is all included with the short block? What other items to top it off?
It cannot be strictly track, and must run pump gas! Thanks again guys!
Dont laugh at me, but what is all included with the short block? What other items to top it off?
It cannot be strictly track, and must run pump gas! Thanks again guys!
No offense but thats what i thought,So you dont wanna have to be tearing apart you whole motor building from scratch....pm racer7088 ,works at HPE, about a forged SB,hes great to deal with.Otherwise speed inc is good as PSJ stated.Yes a stock crank can handle that,just not everyone wants to take the chance.a shortblock is typically
block
crank
rods
pistons
bearings
rods bolts and main bolts/studs
possible a cam and oil pump and front and rear covers depending on the deal
block
crank
rods
pistons
bearings
rods bolts and main bolts/studs
possible a cam and oil pump and front and rear covers depending on the deal
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There are different low end rods too. Eagle and scat have different versions. Scat has 3 rod bolts to choose from and 2 rod styles.
Eagle has their ~$400 and the stronger 4340 ESP's at about $600... Im sure one of the $600 scats is a close match...
If you are going to rev+boost crazy get the L19 arp bolts no matter which brand.
I like the wisecos just make sure the machinist follows wiseco tech on how to measure and specs not do the same as a JE...
As for the crank it has to do with tuning... There is a limit even with no detonation. I think the LS1 crowd under rates the Ls cranks... I know you V8 only guys hate seeing this car but www.shepracing.com just a knife edge lightened stock mitsu crank putting down 1000hp.
Yes I have seen ppl break the same crank running forged rods at 600hp and less because the had too small of injectors or did something else stupid like weak fuel pump or overagressive timing... Left the race gas tune in the EMS and ran 93 etc... Detonation and retarded tuning can kill even a full forged engine.
Get the decent budget rod and piston combo then get a good EMS system and wb o2 controller.. Run it in closed loop.. Alot harder to eff up...
Eagle has their ~$400 and the stronger 4340 ESP's at about $600... Im sure one of the $600 scats is a close match...
If you are going to rev+boost crazy get the L19 arp bolts no matter which brand.
I like the wisecos just make sure the machinist follows wiseco tech on how to measure and specs not do the same as a JE...
As for the crank it has to do with tuning... There is a limit even with no detonation. I think the LS1 crowd under rates the Ls cranks... I know you V8 only guys hate seeing this car but www.shepracing.com just a knife edge lightened stock mitsu crank putting down 1000hp.
Yes I have seen ppl break the same crank running forged rods at 600hp and less because the had too small of injectors or did something else stupid like weak fuel pump or overagressive timing... Left the race gas tune in the EMS and ran 93 etc... Detonation and retarded tuning can kill even a full forged engine.
Get the decent budget rod and piston combo then get a good EMS system and wb o2 controller.. Run it in closed loop.. Alot harder to eff up...
Last edited by V8_DSM_V8again; Jul 21, 2005 at 04:11 PM.
