Well I am done with my Procharger. I don't like messing with belt, holes in my intercoolers, etc... I know some people are going to say that I should stick with it but I think I want to move on. In the future I will have a new motor and will want to make around 700rwhp, which I think will be a challenge with a Procharger. Also, the Procharger attracts too much attention with its super sexy idle whine. I will eventually attract attention from the law which would not be pleasant.

I would like to go with the intercooled kit from Ground Zero, the one that uses the stock manifolds. I would probably invest in some BBK shorties so they flow a little better and so I have at least something on the car that is CARB legal. How much power is this kit capable of when using the 2.5" intercooler and intake piping? I would also like to get an electronic boost controller. It the T70 big enough for 700rwhp? Also, where does the air filter mount with this kit?

Thanks!

 

It all depends on the new motors build and static compression.

Drop the compression and you can run alot of boost 20's or higher.

I would suggest sourcing your own components.

6.0 truck manis reversed to a x-0ver or preferably just run twins.

Use a PTE air to water IC or a PWR Barrel style air to water either with a heat exchanger.

I think you can come out well under the kit price DIY...

 

700 rwhp? pick up that thar T76, dude.

 

Hmm... I'm getting ahead of myself. 700rwhp is a long ways away. What about 550rwhp, just enough to keep my stock motor for awhile? I dont want something that takes awhile to spool up. LT1-7 mentioned getting full boost by 3000rpm... is that a T70 talking? Also what should I do for a BOV? I guess the kit doesnt come with one.

 

nothing about that ground zero kit is gonna be smog legal, so dont buy shorties for that reason.

the 2000 and up manifolds would be a lot most cost effective to get a little extra flow over your 99's

also keep in mind your going to have a tough time keeping the car cool unless your willing to ditch your AC.

 

oh and dont think that turbo wont attract attention, they make plenty of noise

 

I still have the A/C in my car, along with the stock thermo no less. Went driving around in 98* weather today with a heat index of 105. No overheating in stop and go traffic. My turbo sits exactly where that kit would.

 

Ditching my A/C is on the to do list. But it would make the value of the car much less. So I'm still contemplating it. Keep the comments coming please. I am about to go outside and rip off my Procharger.

 

You can make 550 or so without forced induction...

Build a long block and drop the compression ratio a bit.. How far depends on intended HP and fuel you want to use.

Get two turbos (faster spool) on reversed truck manis.. Mounting two turbos closer to the exhaust ports where its hotter decreases spool rpm as opposed to spooling one big compressor of equal flow somewhere else. Ask JZ what turbos to get.. You could get turbos that put the spool point where you want it.

Cast manifolds are preferable. The 6.0 truck manis are perfect. Everyone who bought tubulars for EVO's and DSMs have problems. There is alot of heat in a turbo exhaust manifold and temperature variations combined with the weight of a turbo crack and or completely break them. The only way to do it is to use a double slip joint and suspend the turbo on its own brace to the block... IHMO just run the truck manis like stenod.

There is an area between idle and full boost RPM where you neither have vaccum nor big boost.. So even below the boost curve many turbo cars pull harder than the NT version of the same engine. In fact due to the milder cams of a turbo car and all things equal (stroke/heads etc) it typically will pull harder than a cam and heads car since its below the power band of the other cars cams.. A lag from idle to 3000rpm is nothing when you still make ATLEAST stock power below this point... It may feel soggy once you are used to having a turbo since when boost hits it will make big power...

Its a V8 not a I4 so a 3000 spool point is'nt that bad.. My DSM feels like someone switched on a 400hp+ wet N20 system at about 4300rpm in first.. In first gear Off idle to 3000 it feels like a non turbo from 3000-4300 like a stock turbo... More load like in upper gears lowers the spool point. 3rd gear pulls on the hwy rule...

Sell the blower.. Stick the $ into a short block with at minimum good machine work plus eagle rods and wiseco pistons...

Talk to people with turbo cars and look at the turbo specific threads.

 

He doesn't want to make 550rwhp naturally aspirated, that's why he posted asking about turbos. 550 rwhp with a turbo is far more streetable than 550 rwhp in a monster H/C setup. Like you said, when the boost hits with a turbo, it hits hard. My car feels like it got rear ended by a freight train when I hit 5 psi, and like it has a frickin rocket on it at 10 psi. I'm afraid to rev it higher than 4k, it pulls so damn hard... Getting full boost by 2750-3000 rpm isn't bad at all, you don't want it any sooner, believe me.

 

Also, DONT ditch the A/C. Unless you are serious about track racing and want to save the pounds off the front end, it's not worth the discomfort. I recently reinstalled mine and I can say that I won't ever take it out again. Underhood temps are crazy high compared to how they were pre-turbo, and all that air gets blown right back at you while you're driving and stopped in traffic...

 

I'm low 10's full weight AC etc. Fast with class motto..

It's just that the price difference between running low boost 550hp and 750 plus sometimes just comes down to the cost of rods and pistons...

I personally would'nt bother with a turbo if I did'nt build the engine to make use of its full potential..

Wait until you get a forged shortblock in there with the right static compression ratio... There is a bit more left in that turbo.

I go from no boost to over 30psi across a very narrow RPM range.
Based on dynos of those with similar setups and ETs. I jump up 400hp across 1500 rpms and it keeps pulling well above 600hp from 5.5k to 8.5k.

 

Some of us don't have the luxury of cash to do this. I, for one, am a somewhat poor, lowly college student, who had to make use of his school's motorsports club's equipment to basically fabricate everything he needed, and still managed to pull 500+ rwhp out of it .

However, I would agree. Don't go beyond 550 unless you have the means to replace a lot of broken ****.

 

Read my edit.

I did my the beginings of my DSM at a military auto craft shop and the intensive parts later paying a little for lift time at a freinds house with a rotory lift. Helping your friends with their race cars helps too.. Have some beer around on nights they are free and a garage... = Many skilled hands...

A minimum overbore, eagles and wisecos are not that big of expense compaired to the kit. But they sure make the most out of it.

 

eagle rods are heavy forget those. but they're cheap. the phamspeed kit should be the way to go.. i'd personnally wait and see what marko's kit is gonna look like. Its definitely priced right. you might be kicking yourself for not waiting a few months for a really good kit.

he's making a single turbo and twin turbo kit for f bodies. just fyi

I want to do TT next year

 

Coming from a FI background. Eagle rods are cheap... Also stronger than you would think. I have seen 4 of their rods (4 banger) put down #s in the 600 and 700 range...

Also a forced induction setup a few grams is easily more than made up for by just a touch more boost like less than 1-psi probably. You dont want to know how much lighter the eagles are than the pauter rods alot of DSM guys used to run before the aftermarket got caught up...

You dont want featherweight rods. you dont want porkers either. I'd run an oliver or manley profile almost or just as heavy as the eagles.. Ask Urban at W2W about what rods (attributes not brand) he would choose for a turbo engine vs a cam and head engine.. Big difference...

The eagle LS1 rods are 650 grams.

Manley STD weights are 668 grams..

Not that heavy...

 

W2W runs Howard rods, the lightest on the market yet still strong and their car is almost in the 6's...

Lighter rotating assembly makes it rev faster and makes free horsepower

I'm running Callies rods, not the best but better than Eagles.

You might want to give the import stuff a rest since you are on a domestic forum.

 

Wow I specifically said "not brand" but rod design...

Wanna guess that at almost every engine shop a turbo, supercharged or n20 motor gets a beefier rod than a NA motor..

I'm guessing the howards LS1 4340 is probably in the same ballpark as a manley LW rod in strength and weight.. Around 600 grams... 50 grams is'nt jack on a turbo motor... I am also pretty sure casper the full race car you quoted an ET from is actually running howards aluminum rods... Not street friendly..

In regards to the eagles the point was he was on a budget. Eagles are a budget rod... I dont run them myself... Prefer I beams... But I have seen 4cyls that put down what V8 guys say are the max for eagles in a V8. Meaning they are twice as strong as those that call them junk.

The callies compstars are probably about the same.
http://moreperformanceinc.com/index_...s&product=1719

Looks the same to me... Also looks like a scat H beam. Hmm.....

There are only a few places to go for forged rod blanks that can make a rod that cheap and everybody that has a brain equips the rods with ARP bolts. With eagle, Scat and others low end rods some companies probably share a eastern world foundry. Most do their own maching in the US to the blanks to produce a final product.

Listen I have done everything from 4g63's, rotories, supra inlines, SBC's, BBC's, a monster olds motor, turboshaft aviation engines etc.. So i dont pull this stuff out my ***..

 

no one including myself said eagles are junk , just said they are heavy. 50 grams is a lot if you're looking to get every ounce of power of your engine.

I don't run the cheap Callies rod in my car

I came from the import world too, guess what they're a heavy rod in the import world too! Never ran them then wont run em now. Nobody ever said they can't hold a lot of power..THe HPE car runs em ( he almost touches 7's)

You can tell a difference when a car is running a heavier rod even if it makes a good amount of power.

 

So has this turned into a pissing contest?

I am not looking into a forged motor right now... When I blow my motor then I'll need one

Anyone have any thoughts on electronic boost controllers? Are the useful, worthless? Expensive? Where to get them?