Please help the new guy
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 117
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From: Lusby Maryland
Please help the new guy I am considering a supercharger probally an ATI. Mikey at Rapid Motorsports told me I should strengthen my bottom end with better bearings and lower my compression with different pistons. Also he said a 12 bolt would be a must. The car has
ARE Stage 1 H/C with a LS6 intake
LT headers and borla catback
A-4 Vig 3500 tranny cooler and shift kit
Custom programming
Compression is around 10.8:1 and the cam is 218/223 560lift 114LSA
If I were to do what is reccomended it would be around
Pro-charger and install $5400
12 bolt and install $2700
Rebuild motor parts/labor $1500 (guess)
That's close to $10,000
I need second opinions on this. I surely don't want to skimp and then grenade my motor, but on the other hand if this is overkill I don't want to throw money down the toilet. What do you experienced guys running H/C reccommend.
Thanks for any help
ARE Stage 1 H/C with a LS6 intake
LT headers and borla catback
A-4 Vig 3500 tranny cooler and shift kit
Custom programming
Compression is around 10.8:1 and the cam is 218/223 560lift 114LSA
If I were to do what is reccomended it would be around
Pro-charger and install $5400
12 bolt and install $2700
Rebuild motor parts/labor $1500 (guess)
That's close to $10,000
I need second opinions on this. I surely don't want to skimp and then grenade my motor, but on the other hand if this is overkill I don't want to throw money down the toilet. What do you experienced guys running H/C reccommend.
Thanks for any help
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 117
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From: Lusby Maryland
Re: Please help the new guy Nobody on here knows anything about superchargers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Sad]" src="gr_sad.gif" /> Come on guys help me out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Re: Please help the new guy </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Dan T/A Fan:
<strong>Are they just slapping them on a stock motor with no afterthought? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My times and numbers are on the stock motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
There was plenty of thought in the setup, that's how i made it stay together. 26K miles of boost, and very little signs of wear in the motor.
I just want more now, and don't feel comfortable pushing the stock motor that far.
two words are magic in LS1 land: "credit cards" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<strong>Are they just slapping them on a stock motor with no afterthought? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My times and numbers are on the stock motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
There was plenty of thought in the setup, that's how i made it stay together. 26K miles of boost, and very little signs of wear in the motor.
I just want more now, and don't feel comfortable pushing the stock motor that far.
two words are magic in LS1 land: "credit cards" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,986
Likes: 1
From: Centrifugal City
Re: Please help the new guy I'm going the least expensive route possible...
Stock Heads
Katech Rod Bolt upgrade
ARP Head Studs
Super Duper Boost Gasket
Thicker gasket to drop C/R to 9.6:1
7.450" Comp Pushrods
216/224 Cam
CC918 springs
You could aim for a lower C/R and have them do it by increasing the CC's on your heads.
<small>[ March 18, 2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: MelloYellow ]</small>
Stock Heads
Katech Rod Bolt upgrade
ARP Head Studs
Super Duper Boost Gasket
Thicker gasket to drop C/R to 9.6:1
7.450" Comp Pushrods
216/224 Cam
CC918 springs
You could aim for a lower C/R and have them do it by increasing the CC's on your heads.
<small>[ March 18, 2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: MelloYellow ]</small>
Thread Starter
On The Tree
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From: Lusby Maryland
Re: Please help the new guy </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by y2khawk:
My times and numbers are on the stock motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
There was plenty of thought in the setup, that's how i made it stay together. 26K miles of boost, and very little signs of wear in the motor.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you switch trannies and rearends? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
My times and numbers are on the stock motor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
There was plenty of thought in the setup, that's how i made it stay together. 26K miles of boost, and very little signs of wear in the motor.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Did you switch trannies and rearends? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="gr_emb.gif" />
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,190
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Please help the new guy Ah thats my problem only been spending on one credit card, not multiple cards. I new I was doing something wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Gary
Gary
Re: Please help the new guy actaully 3 or 4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
stock T56 and 33 spline 12 bolt for me. 3" chromo DS after i twisted the aluminum one to ****
stock T56 and 33 spline 12 bolt for me. 3" chromo DS after i twisted the aluminum one to ****
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Re: Please help the new guy While I'm not a supercharger guy, i've dabbled in boost <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Save yourself the headaches and get the 12 bolt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Compression is on the high side if you plan to run pump gas with any reasonable timing in the tune.
The cam and heads look good for the application.
The question is, how much power are you looking for and what kind of boost levels are we talking.
While beefing up the rotating assembly is a good idea, I sure hope he's talking about more than just bearings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
You're looking at a decent bit of money for the bottom end if you wanna strong and lower compression.
Pistons for the setup will run you between $80 and $115 each depending on who you go with, and what they do for wrist pins. Look for a decent set of rods, $600+ is a reasonable guess.
You'll be ok on the stock crank if you plan to stay stock cubes.
That's close to $1500 for parts, w/o all the little stuff like bearings and gaskets. Then include labor.
FWIW, i'm gathering the parts now for my build up
Crower rods, $1200
JE pistons, $112 each w/ tool steel pins
rings, $150
bearings, guessing $250 for cam, crank, and rod as i'm still digging them up
ARP head studs will run you $250
head gaskets will be in the range of $40 for OEM
engine gaskets too, haven't got a full detail on those yet.
Given any thought to the fuel system yet??
You'll need to soon enough
Save yourself the headaches and get the 12 bolt <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Compression is on the high side if you plan to run pump gas with any reasonable timing in the tune.
The cam and heads look good for the application.
The question is, how much power are you looking for and what kind of boost levels are we talking.
While beefing up the rotating assembly is a good idea, I sure hope he's talking about more than just bearings <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
You're looking at a decent bit of money for the bottom end if you wanna strong and lower compression.
Pistons for the setup will run you between $80 and $115 each depending on who you go with, and what they do for wrist pins. Look for a decent set of rods, $600+ is a reasonable guess.
You'll be ok on the stock crank if you plan to stay stock cubes.
That's close to $1500 for parts, w/o all the little stuff like bearings and gaskets. Then include labor.
FWIW, i'm gathering the parts now for my build up
Crower rods, $1200
JE pistons, $112 each w/ tool steel pins
rings, $150
bearings, guessing $250 for cam, crank, and rod as i'm still digging them up
ARP head studs will run you $250
head gaskets will be in the range of $40 for OEM
engine gaskets too, haven't got a full detail on those yet.
Given any thought to the fuel system yet??
You'll need to soon enough
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Verdad Gallardo TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,190
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Please help the new guy Also add a built (FLP recommened, Yank, PMAC) or different transmission (4l80E, th350, or th400)to the list and new driveshaft. Stock 4l60e will not take the abuse. In fact I would say the transmission would go long before the 10-bolt, but there are few exceptions to that also. I think engine will cost way more than what you have estimated, you need pistons and connecting rods (probably the weakest link), but crank should be fine.
Gary
Gary
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 117
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From: Lusby Maryland
Re: Please help the new guy Thanks guys that was some information I was looking for. How do guys afford to go to these setups? It seems a lot of guys are running these things. Are they just slapping them on a stock motor with no afterthought? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 117
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From: Lusby Maryland
Re: Please help the new guy </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by y2khawk:
<strong>actaully 3 or 4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
stock T56 and 33 spline 12 bolt for me. 3" chromo DS after i twisted the aluminum one to ****</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So do I need to build the bottom end of my motor?
So far from what you have said I will need a 12 bolt and drive shaft. Will my tranny hold. A4 with transgo shiftkit and upgraded billet servo and tranny cooler.
Thanks
Dan
2000 WS6
<strong>actaully 3 or 4 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
stock T56 and 33 spline 12 bolt for me. 3" chromo DS after i twisted the aluminum one to ****</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So do I need to build the bottom end of my motor?
So far from what you have said I will need a 12 bolt and drive shaft. Will my tranny hold. A4 with transgo shiftkit and upgraded billet servo and tranny cooler.
Thanks
Dan
2000 WS6
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,190
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Please help the new guy Stock 4l60e wont even take 450 rwhp on a turbo car, the first WOT run it will be slipping, supercharger it might last a little longer. As stated above build the 4l60e or replace it and also replace the stock torque converter. You are talking another $3k, maybe a little less or more depending on what you do. You could try just a rebuild it for $500 worth of parts (then you install it yourself), but have not seen one last more than a few thousand miles with just a rebuild. I just replaced my stock 4l60e with a FLP level 4 4l60e and a low stall 2600 vigilante. Next will be a twelve bolt and new driveshaft, then I will finally get the car out on the road with an Incon TT kit running low low boost (3-4 psi).
Gary
<small>[ March 19, 2002, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: red ws6 99 ]</small>
Gary
<small>[ March 19, 2002, 12:20 PM: Message edited by: red ws6 99 ]</small>