BLOWNMERO

AMEN BROTHER!!!

Black LS1 T/A

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 01Bird_of_Prey:
<strong> And if anybody wants a stage 2 kit, I'm sure that you can e-mail just about any of us that have one and we an tell you what you need versus going through GWP. Buy direct--No middleman!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Another one-post wonder. <img border="0" alt="[barf]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_barf.gif" />

That's because, having no integrity, you take the knowledge they have spent money to aquire and give it away.

AND, if the kit is a time-bomb, WHY would YOU give the same parts recommendation to others? You, who couldn't take that same kit and keep your car together! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It amazes me how people who live in glass houses throw stones.

Anyway... here are some quotes from you:

"Finally got my supercharger together and I am very happy with the performance of the kit."

This boost level IS a problem, however, if you try to run it without sufficient octane. I've told guys over and over on this board and LS1.com if you are going to run more than the base kit, check for detonation and run either a mix of 100 octane or get some TORCO Race Fuel Additive.

But YOUR solution was to run LEADED gas in your car! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (BTW, this is not a joke like my post with TheBeet.) You likely killed your O2s and degraded or killed your converters, too. THEN you KEPT driving it!

Jason even came on the board to respond to your initial posts and offered to give you advice when things went south for you.

If I blow up my motor tomorrow, that is on me. We take a chance racing our cars stock! Then we want to race them with Nitrous, with Forced Induction?

YOU blew your motor up! You handled your forced induction kit badly and now you want to blame everybody but yourself. There are people here running the kit who pay attention to things like detonation, when they get bad gas, and so on. And they don't go against people's advice about running leaded gas or racing with insufficient octane. And even someone being careful will STILL blow their stock motor up. I expect I eventually will blow mine. But if I'm going to play, I expect to pay, and am making plans.

You can believe I want be whining that GWP blew my motor up because I ran 10 and 12 PSI of boost on a stock bottom end.

How's THAT for a SPIN! <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Black LS1 T/A

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 01Bird_of_Prey: As someone posted above, I ran 3/4 of a tank of 93 and 1/4 (roughly 5 gallons) of 100 LL in my tank 1 time and went out racing. Every was going great Saturday night, no detination.

Parked the car all day Sunday. Come Monday morning the car was running really bad. The check engine light came on for multiple misfires and B1S1.

I changed the O2 and it ran a lot better but still had the misfire code #7. I did a compression check and I was at 90 psi (should be about 160 psi). I pulled the engine and found that the #7 ringland was broke.

I'm not sure if the blown engine is because of the 100 LL, but I will not be putting it in my vehicle again!!!

Just Say NO![/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You first post presents quite a "spin" since you didn't mention these little details with your post about how GWP blew up your motor. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Black LS1 T/A

Here is some of the advice posted on LS1.com about running this fuel:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
One guy on here used it and his O2's didnt last very long.
like one or 2 tanks of it.

I wouldnt use it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Aviation 100 LL is just what the name implies. Its 100 octane Low Lead. Not real good for the O2 sensors. In fact, the "Low Lead" is a misnomer. In relationship to automotive leaded race gas, it is fairly high in Tet. Lead.

The real drawback with it is that it is very "dry" compared to the various race gas on the market. I hope you understand what I mean by dry. It is real hard on any components in your fuel system that are not steel.

We used to use 100 LL in high boost Turbo Buicks, but stopped do to deterioration of hoses and plastic components in the in-tank fuel pump.

Stay away from it, even though it looks like a good alternative for race gas.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
To much lead in the fuel! dont use it!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
99m6ss, if it's blue 100LL (low lead) aviation fuel, then it has lead. Lots of it by car standards.

I've run it for years in my 1973 Sanger flatbottom dragboat (454BBC, 12.5 comp ). The boat, of course, is not a daily driver.

I've heard that the gas is very "dry" as stated above. However, it mixes real good with pump 93 octane unleaded for those off-road vehicles needing a little more octane that don't have O2 sensors. The lead will wipe the sensors out.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
Be safe and just buy 100 octane NO LEAD Race Gas at the track. Costs more, but how many times do you really need it.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I doubt a direct line to GWP would have prevented you from doing what YOU decided you want to do. Don't sell ME any kit, give me any adice OR any of your <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> .

SJH

Black LS1 T/A,
I would just let GWP fight their own battles if any of this is upsetting to them.
Maybe give it a little rest??
Just my .02
Steve

Black LS1 T/A

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SJH:
<strong>Black LS1 T/A,
I would just let GWP fight their own battles if any of this is upsetting to them.
Maybe give it a little rest??
Just my .02
Steve</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve, if you noticed, the last few posts I took issue with were people who came on here calling out my name.

I already figured out if they are going to bash... fine.

But, I reserve the right to post just as they do, especially if they put me in it.

I didn't see you ask THEM to give it a rest... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

SJH

ok, in all fairness, it is silly to blame GWP for a blown motor.
Supercharging is serious stuff. You need to understand it on your own or I can guarantee you learn the hardway sooner or later and it gets expensive.
The other stuff with money and parts concerning GWP I have no comment on.
That's where I think you should let GWP them selves set the record straight Mike.
Course you all are going to do what you're going to do anyway.
I just felt like sticking my nose into this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
Steve

Black LS1 T/A

I think I'm gonna take your advice. <img border="0" alt="[judgement]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_judge.gif" />

I've answered all the things I thought were silly, unfair or inconsistent, and admitted IF they got the lies they claim, I'd be upset, too.

They can let'er rip on this thread from now on and I'll be silent.

Just don't name my name... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

SuperSport2000

damn 107 replies!!!!!!

BLOWNMERO

BLACK LS1 T/A <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

MelloYellow

It does sound like the engine above going out wasn't GWP's fault. But instilling confidence in a customer that their Supercharged LS1 is bulletproof is a mistake.

Every FI owner needs to know how to tune and maintain their FI setup themselves. ATI is as much as fault as this as anything else.

So, the motor going out wasn't their fault, but perhaps lack of educating the consumer was? ATI needs to do the same. I know it goes contrary to selling a product and also letting them know it can blow up.. but..

01Bird_of_Prey

First of all, the 100 LL...I podted on LS1.com regarding the subject of running it in my car. Nobody said not to do it. I called the "all knowing", Jason at GWP <img border="0" alt="[hail]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_hail.gif" /> and he said that the worst that would happen is that my O2's would go bad in about 10,000 - 15,000 miles and could plug up my cats, which is not a problem, since I've never had cats. The subject keeps coming up about me having cats...so, I repeat...I've never had cats!

Secondly, this may be my first post here but I have a pretty good track record at LS1.com. Hardly a "one-post wonder"!

Finally, I am 32 years old, a ASE Certified Mechanic, so I'm not exactly a "new-comer" to high performance and blown motors. I own a Snap-on scan tool...I saw no retard in the timing, so I not sure what blew up the engine. As far as the quote..."happy with the performance of my kit", 100% I was. However, the reason for this post was because I only wanted to run 7 psi of boost but Jason assured me that he puts out hundreds of these kits with no problems. By posting, everyone now knows to do their research regarding misfires after installing (more than a few have had this problem) this particular kit. Coincidence...I think not!

I plan to run 9 psi again but with lower compression and forged pistons and better rods.

If you are truely interested in purchasing this kit from GWP or who ever...Do not listen to Black LS1 or myself...do your research thoroughly on this subject! You definetly do not want a blown motor after spending $6,000 on a SC.

MelloYellow

01Bird_of_Prey:
Agree. Not to pour salt in your wounds as we've all had engine failures often beyond our control, but if you were detonating, shouldn't it have shown up as KR? I'd like to think you could catch it if you monitor it.

I plan to run an LS1 Scanmaster to watch for KR. I hope it's enough. How was fuel pressure when the engine/ringlands went out? Definitely bad advice by GWP, but you'd probably have heard the same line from ATI or anyone else. Sales unfortunately..

Lower C/R would have helped. Black LS1 T/A, aside from some GWP bias hehe, ran 9psi successfully for some time. GWP should have made you aware you were on the ragged edge, which is where I expect I'll be running.

Too much timing/bad programming?
Not enough Fuel Pressure?
Live KR monitoring? Not many do it, but I think the live Scanmaster is a must.

01Bird_of_Prey

Mello Yellow:

Like I said earlier, I don't exactly know what happened but I'm a little lirie about that hoble switch. I noticed my very first run after installation that the car was boosting 5 psi but wasn't making power. I played with the hoble switch, adjusting the screw and it started to build power, when the switch would come on. I just could not get the switch to come on with the psi...either too little or too much. Either way, I know that when I am building boost and the axillary pump isn't turning on fast enough, that it can't be good. So I don't think that the hoble switch is a good idea.

When I get it back together I am going to run an RPM activated (MSD) switch and have the pump turn on around 3000rpm (give or take). Hopefully this will take care of the problem, if in fact that was the problem.

I see that you are in Florida...where about?

Blackbird

01birdofprey and others.

I recommend not relying on an inline pump to kick on at exactly the right time.

Either run the inline 24x7

or

Get a big intank and be done with it.

Simplicity has it's advantages.

The less parts you have to rely on to work the less chance for failure.

MelloYellow

I agree with Blackbird. I'm going with an in-tank that increases volume all the time. Getting an Aux just right can be problematic and there can be some lag if you don't run it 24/7.

I'm in SE Florida. Boca. Think I may wait for the V-2 SQ for the C5. Looks like I may finally have cash for the SC in about 30 days. Whew!!

2001WS6Vert

My car has the Vortech kit on it and due to detonation it melted a piston and ruined the engine. I was running 93 octane with octane boost but at the shift points during racing it would crackle pretty bad. I am a mechanic who works on regular old cars and had not seen detonation do that kind of damage. I feel kinda dumb for not taking the detonation seriously (I figured I might get LS1 edit or something down the road. I can tell you this though, I feel that the instructions that came with the Vortech kit should have explicitely warned about how easily detonation could do this and to watch it like a hawk. Also their advertising makes it sound like you will have no problems ie. (it will even pass an emissions test). Their tuning program must be a little off if it detonates this badly on 93 octane. I know I took this risk when I supercharged but a little help would have went a long way.

MelloYellow

Agree.

Hope my 1st FI experience here shortly isn't a bad one.

Lost & Found2

My $.02, on something I found interesting. Take it for what you will. Some from LS1.com might have noted that I bought my GWP stage II about a month after Black did. I waited 5 months to get my fuel system and program to complete the package. This is newer stuff, and only for general information. (Long)

----- Original Message -----
From: Jay H Krites
To: Breanna Paul
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 11:59 AM
Subject: Re: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

That's strange it was in the same shipment that had the money for my pulley, and the check was cashed for my pulley.
I still have the tracking numbers and it was insured so I will check with them. Also when I first called you a week after sending it, you told me that you received it and asked if we just wanted to hold onto it and wait to see what the new pulley did. Please let me know if any of this helps in remembering my programer, if not i will call the shipping company with the tracking number. But if you cashed the check I sent you then you also received the program, because they where sent out together.

Thanks
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Breanna Paul
To: Jay H Krites
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 7:49 AM
Subject: Re: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

Jay,
I'm sorry it took so long to get your pulley. I think you are under the impression that I have your Superchips programmer. If you sent this to me, it would be a very good idea to track it down as I have never rec'd it. I have been reading some of your posts on the boards about this and I'm a little concerned.

Jason @ GWP
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay H Krites
To: sales@goldenwestperformance.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2002 7:00 PM
Subject: Fw: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

Jason,
This just another e-mail, a reminder that I still have not received any feedback on my parts.

Thanks
Jay

----- Original Message -----
From: Jay H Krites
To: sales@goldenwestperformance.com
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 5:35 PM
Subject: Fw: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

Jason,

I haven't heard anything back from you on my last e-mail or phone call. Please let me know what the status and when I can expect the parts.

Thanks
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: Jay H Krites
To: sales@goldenwestperformance.com
Sent: Monday, June 24, 2002 12:20 PM
Subject: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

Jason,

I'm just wondering what the status is on my pulley. Also you might as well send the programmer in to have it reprogrammed. From what I hear, they are a little backed up as it is.
The car again ran at 5 boost and a flat-line 10.0 A/F at WOT.
Anything else I can help on, please let me know

Very Respectfully
Jay H. Krites

*** Last Post I sent to GWP ***

----- Original Message -----
From: Jay H Krites
To: Breanna Paul
Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 2002 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: 3.4 pulley custom programmer

Jason,
Here is a follow-up, I tracked the shipping number.

Status: Delivered
Delivered on: May 28, 2002 10:27 A.M.
Signed by: KERSTIENS
Location: OFFICE
Delivered to: LITTLETON, CO, US

Tracking Number: 1Z E35 500 03 1045 399 2
Service Type: GROUND

*********************************************

I'm not going to state anything or point or anything like that. I understand things take time, I understand **** happens, i understande people forget things and have a mountain of things to do. But I also know that truthful communication is key in most things, I'm not pointing or saying anything about others truthfulness.
I know that if I would have known then what I know now, I wouldn't have picked the package i did. But that's on me, and no one else. My car is seeing only 423 RWHP, but a monster 496 RWT. The fuel system, inline tank, wasn't to my liking and the car runs hotter then hell.

Please take this only as it is meant to be taken as information and not as an attack on anyone.

Jay

PS: Black, I have my fingers crossed for you and your 422, I hope you get that beast soon and it all turns out well.

Mark C

Jay,

If you want better service from GWP, why don't you just spend 6 hours a day on the LS1 forums telling everyone how good their service is.

Granted, it may be too late, but it couldn't hurt.

Don't forget to inflate your post count.