high boost top end miss?
10-09-2005, 02:29 PM
#42
you could use MSD DIS-4 Plus HO Digital Ignitions with wasted coils using the EDIS 8 ignition module setup like I used on my 6.0L
i've only briefly used a DIS-2 ignitino box on an Eclipse never really messed with it, I don't know what all you can do on there.
cut & paste from summitracing, its about $430 there.
These DIS-4 Plus HO digital ignitions are higher-output versions of the DIS ignition controls from MSD. They're designed for full race engines running high boost pressures from turbos, blowers, or nitrous. Their increased output will light up fuel mixtures even under these extreme cylinder pressures. Your late model distributorless ignition system will never be the same! The capacitive discharge ignitions feature multi-channel capability, complemented with multiple sparks, two rev limiters, and a timing control. These DIS ignitions are engineered with the latest in digital science, including power MOSFET technology and efficient IGBT coil drivers. They're managed by a 15 MHz micro-controller for extremely fast compensations and decisions. In the end, this creates incredibly accurate spark delivery, rev limiting, and timing functions. Throttle response and mid-range pull are also improved, due to a series of powerful multiple sparks that last for 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation. There is a two-step rev limiter, which gives you one limit to set for holeshots and another for top-end performance. For engines using nitrous or extremely high cylinder pressures, you can also program a high-speed retard after the engine hits total timing. Both of these features are easy to adjust with the new built-in rotary dials. They also feature an ignition interrupt that will prevent the engine from starting by disabling the output to the coil, a retard feature that retards the timing at the top end to prevent detonation, and an LED monitor that will alert you of a low supply of voltage or faulty input signals. Also, there is now a true step retard that can be activated through your nitrous solenoid wiring! The DIS-4 HO Plus digital ignitions are designed for 6 or 8-cylinder engines with three or four coil packs.
i've only briefly used a DIS-2 ignitino box on an Eclipse never really messed with it, I don't know what all you can do on there.
cut & paste from summitracing, its about $430 there.
These DIS-4 Plus HO digital ignitions are higher-output versions of the DIS ignition controls from MSD. They're designed for full race engines running high boost pressures from turbos, blowers, or nitrous. Their increased output will light up fuel mixtures even under these extreme cylinder pressures. Your late model distributorless ignition system will never be the same! The capacitive discharge ignitions feature multi-channel capability, complemented with multiple sparks, two rev limiters, and a timing control. These DIS ignitions are engineered with the latest in digital science, including power MOSFET technology and efficient IGBT coil drivers. They're managed by a 15 MHz micro-controller for extremely fast compensations and decisions. In the end, this creates incredibly accurate spark delivery, rev limiting, and timing functions. Throttle response and mid-range pull are also improved, due to a series of powerful multiple sparks that last for 20 degrees of crankshaft rotation. There is a two-step rev limiter, which gives you one limit to set for holeshots and another for top-end performance. For engines using nitrous or extremely high cylinder pressures, you can also program a high-speed retard after the engine hits total timing. Both of these features are easy to adjust with the new built-in rotary dials. They also feature an ignition interrupt that will prevent the engine from starting by disabling the output to the coil, a retard feature that retards the timing at the top end to prevent detonation, and an LED monitor that will alert you of a low supply of voltage or faulty input signals. Also, there is now a true step retard that can be activated through your nitrous solenoid wiring! The DIS-4 HO Plus digital ignitions are designed for 6 or 8-cylinder engines with three or four coil packs.
10-13-2005, 12:51 PM
#43
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
I had ignition problems with my FAST/eDist combination around 730rwhp. I needed to increase the dwell time of the coils, and Lance Ward's suggestion (guy @ FAST) was that I buy $1200 worth of MSD ignition stuff. So I sold my FAST for very cheap and bought a BS3. No more ignition issues. Can't argue with a setup that can use stock truck coils and power a door slammer into the 6's.
I think the way to go here is to get megasquirt controlling the factory LS1 coilpacks. If they tolerate wasted spark, this can be done immediately (MS already has 4 coil outputs with 5v trigger capability).
Now, the Supra guys will run LS1 coilpacks with their AEM computers. They run them in wasted spark mode, and even step them up to 18+ volts to support higher cylinder pressures... lots of them run this combo, does anyone here see an issue running the LS1 coilpacks in wasted spark this way?
If wasted spark is an issue, then we need what Brains is building: a driver circuit for a single coil output, similar to that LTCC module for LT1's I believe.
-scott
10-13-2005, 07:12 PM
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its on my long list of "things for Brains to finish" 
Trust me, I want to see it get done as much as the rest of you guys -- and it will, one of these days 
Trust me, I want to see it get done as much as the rest of you guys -- and it will, one of these days 
10-14-2005, 08:26 AM
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doh! I actually did a little more work on it last night, and got my interrupt routines pretty well hashed out. I want to do a little verifying of the timing accuracy of everything, but at this point I'm really comfortable with it. I need to write some code to handle programming of the unit (# of cylinders, dwell time table, etc.) and of course build the actual hardware before I can test. Its coming along, but I've still got a fair chunk of work to do.
10-14-2005, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Get someone to sponsor you a sweet deal on the BS3 and stop messing with that MS stuff.
LOL
BS3 is neat but what's the fun in engine management if someone else built the box???
10-14-2005, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Yeah, you would not want increased reliability, lol.
I'd have to argue that point. I have yet to have an MS failure in the field and I've built over 60 of them by hand... installed 24 of them myself! they rock.
Once you become familiar with the ocmponents that make up the circuits in an EMS (they are ALL the same, and very simple), you get to the point where you WANT to be able to "test" each circuit if there is a problem. I'd feel afraid to run a "big EMS" on anything I tune, because (a) the process for updating and fixing software bugs is YEARS behind the megasquirt, (b) I can't fix or upgrade any of the circuits as I choose, (c) tech support online sucks for all the EMSs except AEM; and (d) I can't even use the Stimulator to test a BigStuff3, how gay is that????
It's all a matter of personal preference, but there is definitley nothing a BS3 can do that the MS guys haven't already done, or are working on...
-scott
10-14-2005, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Yeah, you would not want increased reliability, lol.
How do you know what their track record for reliability is, John? Got some statistics? Ever run one?Besides, the potential for failures is all in who built the unit. The software is proven, and if its not what you want, the source is freely available to anyone who wants it -- code it to do whatever it is you wish. I'd also wager there's more MS cars than BS3 cars running around
I've only put one unit together, and installed it on one car. It took me one evening to build, one evening to install, and it fired up on the first twist of the key. It ran the Power Tour without so much as a hiccup, and I'm confident it will run for many years to come. Jim's Truck seems to be running just fine with it as well.FYI, my add-on is only a stop-gap measure. Al posted today there's plans on a 112-pin micro version coming at some point in the future, which will have PLENTY of room to include this on-board. With a software change, it could also be used by carb guys to fire LS1 coils too (similar to the MSD box I presume).
10-14-2005, 03:02 PM
#56
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Okay you went there. You had a blown head gasket on the power tour. I think that example is flawed.
Jim has an ignition problem that is most likely due to the need for more dwell time with the coils. I went thru this a year ago, but with my old FAST setup.
Jim has an ignition problem that is most likely due to the need for more dwell time with the coils. I went thru this a year ago, but with my old FAST setup.
10-14-2005, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by dieselgeek
I'd have to argue that point. I have yet to have an MS failure in the field and I've built over 60 of them by hand... installed 24 of them myself! they rock.
Once you become familiar with the ocmponents that make up the circuits in an EMS (they are ALL the same, and very simple), you get to the point where you WANT to be able to "test" each circuit if there is a problem. I'd feel afraid to run a "big EMS" on anything I tune, because (a) the process for updating and fixing software bugs is YEARS behind the megasquirt, (b) I can't fix or upgrade any of the circuits as I choose, (c) tech support online sucks for all the EMSs except AEM; and (d) I can't even use the Stimulator to test a BigStuff3, how gay is that????
It's all a matter of personal preference, but there is definitley nothing a BS3 can do that the MS guys haven't already done, or are working on...
-scott
Once you become familiar with the ocmponents that make up the circuits in an EMS (they are ALL the same, and very simple), you get to the point where you WANT to be able to "test" each circuit if there is a problem. I'd feel afraid to run a "big EMS" on anything I tune, because (a) the process for updating and fixing software bugs is YEARS behind the megasquirt, (b) I can't fix or upgrade any of the circuits as I choose, (c) tech support online sucks for all the EMSs except AEM; and (d) I can't even use the Stimulator to test a BigStuff3, how gay is that????
It's all a matter of personal preference, but there is definitley nothing a BS3 can do that the MS guys haven't already done, or are working on...
-scott
10-14-2005, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by 69firebird
I like hte MS as well as the next person, but i know it wont control a transmission like the 4l60e or 4l80e
Correction!!! there's a 4L60/80 controller that's already been tested.
Chuck at Finish Line offered to let us test it out on his dyno this winter in Chicago. The trip is all but planned!
10-14-2005, 03:19 PM
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What kind of TV do you have?
Kurt
Kurt
Originally Posted by dieselgeek
I'd have to argue that point. I have yet to have an MS failure in the field and I've built over 60 of them by hand... installed 24 of them myself! they rock.
Once you become familiar with the ocmponents that make up the circuits in an EMS (they are ALL the same, and very simple), you get to the point where you WANT to be able to "test" each circuit if there is a problem. I'd feel afraid to run a "big EMS" on anything I tune, because (a) the process for updating and fixing software bugs is YEARS behind the megasquirt, (b) I can't fix or upgrade any of the circuits as I choose, (c) tech support online sucks for all the EMSs except AEM; and (d) I can't even use the Stimulator to test a BigStuff3, how gay is that????
It's all a matter of personal preference, but there is definitley nothing a BS3 can do that the MS guys haven't already done, or are working on...
-scott
Once you become familiar with the ocmponents that make up the circuits in an EMS (they are ALL the same, and very simple), you get to the point where you WANT to be able to "test" each circuit if there is a problem. I'd feel afraid to run a "big EMS" on anything I tune, because (a) the process for updating and fixing software bugs is YEARS behind the megasquirt, (b) I can't fix or upgrade any of the circuits as I choose, (c) tech support online sucks for all the EMSs except AEM; and (d) I can't even use the Stimulator to test a BigStuff3, how gay is that????
It's all a matter of personal preference, but there is definitley nothing a BS3 can do that the MS guys haven't already done, or are working on...
-scott
10-14-2005, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
Okay you went there. You had a blown head gasket on the power tour. I think that example is flawed.
Jim has an ignition problem that is most likely due to the need for more dwell time with the coils. I went thru this a year ago, but with my old FAST setup.
Jim has an ignition problem that is most likely due to the need for more dwell time with the coils. I went thru this a year ago, but with my old FAST setup.
This just in, your choice of ECM will blow your head gaskets!John, too much timing (handled by the factory LS1 PCM) combined with 91 octane fuel might have had a little more to do with the head gasket failure -- which happened in NORTHERN ILLINOIS. We drove it ALLLL the way to Florida and back to Texas without pulling the head. Don't think that's too shabby, eh?
Jim is also running his coils from the factory ECU, not the MS.
Please get the facts before bashing, thanks.