CHRISPY

How are things coming along with the Turbo kit? I am very interested to hear your results <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris

SS00Blue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Chris ARE 360:
<strong>How are things coming along with the Turbo kit? I am very interested to hear your results <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
Cheers,
Chris</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I talked to him week before last. He's still at the mercy of the silicon hose manufacturer apparently. I understand his reluctance to send anything, or accept money, until the kits are 100%. A look at the Incon thread confirms the reasonableness of his actions.

I hope it's soon. I'm driving around fearing the lashing I'll get from the first non-stock '03 I see. Of course, the stock ones haven't been an issue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

C'mon silicon guys!

S

<small>[ July 19, 2002, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

Black LS1 T/A

Don't worry. Be like my brother-in-law says... come when you're ready, and... if you're not ready?... don't come. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Then, of course, when your stuff is right, pounce!

Guido

Silicone???

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Call road race engineering. They have it in stock. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

XJGPN

Rob's kit is getting custom pre-formed silicone hoses... I think that's where the hold up is. I'm anxiously waiting to see how this kit works out for everyone... I've been a huge turbo fan and am dying to see if we finally have a good kit. (it looks very promising, just waiting to see the results.)

CRASH 02

iTrader: (3)

I have been watching for this kit since late Jan or earyly Feb 2002. I can't believe it has taken the silicon company half a year to make some custom hoses. That is just crazy. If it were me I would think about looking elsewhere to have the hoses fabed up. Or at least I would tell the company to HURRY THE HELL UP <img border="0" alt="[fight]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" /> or I am going to take my business somewhere else.

Rob Raymer

Sorry it took so long to respond. I just noticed this thread.

Anyway, I want to give a little detail about the silicone. Yes, it's taken MUCH longer than we anticipated. Yes, I wish I could tell them to "hurry up" and have the parts tomorrow. But it's not that easy.

It is true that we have not been waiting on silicone alone since Jan/Feb. But rather, changing MANY things about the final production kit along the way.
We have used several different size/core intercoolers, and mounted in multiple locations. As well as several different turbos, wastegates, etc. Until all of these pieces were finalized, we could not build the intercooler piping.
After all of it was completed, we sent the piping to the silicone hose manufacturer, and from there, they sent it to a CNC facility. The CNC company then makes a piece(s) that can be used by the silicone manufacturer to form the silicone over the CNC'd piece. This was where much of the hold up began. The CNC company took twice as long as they told us (nearly 2 months for one piece). And the Silicone company took at least that long again. Then they had to send it to us, we had to test fit the piece, and send it back with an approval and a purchase order. The purchase order then falls in line with their other orders. And as stated by SS00Blue, it gets ran either with another order, or by itself as the equipment time allows. Unfortunately, because of the small number of parts we order, it has to be done this way to keep it affordable.

Keep in mind, this is just for one piece! We are having 6 separate pieces made. And each is handled individually. Now can you see how such a long delay can be possible, yet unforseen?

Hope that helps.

SS00Blue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CRASH 02:
<strong>I can't believe it has taken the silicon company half a year to make some custom hoses. That is just crazy.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In manufacturing, the lot size that Rob is ordering is EXTREMELY small. They usually run small orders on older, offline equipment. This assumes that the main equipment hasn't had failures, which would require the use of the offline equipment to supplement large orders. There is also the probability that Rob has been making "small" changes in the routing here and there. Customers have been known to do that. It's reasonable as he's just trying to get the best results for us.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CRASH 02:
<strong>If it were me I would think about looking elsewhere to have the hoses fabed up. Or at least I would tell the company to HURRY THE HELL UP or I am going to take my business somewhere else.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Silicon hoses aren't "fabed up". These are heat formed either by hand or using CNC type equipment. Equipment, I'll add, that is not exactly abundant. You're not just going to go to the local Melvin's Hardware and order up 100 sets of custom formed silicon hoses.

SC

Patience. This will work out. Just don't expect it to be soon, and perhaps you'll be surprised. I'm number 20ish, so I know I'll have a LONG wait. Meanwhile, I'll have to avoid the modified 03s.

<small>[ July 23, 2002, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

Y2K Camaro SS

So when is the MF'er coming out?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

CHRISPY

I think this kit is going to be worth the wait!

You guys have done a lot of R&D on this and I like several things about the kit!

gravity oil return (No scavenge **** to break)
1 7/8 primary manifold
big injectors with programming and pump
nice size downpipe and crossover
It is going to be a sweet kit and I cant wait to hear the results!
Cheers,
Chris

SS00Blue

Thanks, Rob! I know you must be explaining this in your sleep by now. It must be frustrating, but your integrity gives us the assurance of receiving a first rate kit.

We all appreciate your meticulous efforts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

A post every few weeks would head off alot of phone calls. Keep that in mind, if you ever want to extract that phone from the side of your head. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

SC- (#20-ish)

CRASH 02

iTrader: (3)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by SS00Blue:
[QB][QUOTE]In manufacturing, the lot size that Rob is ordering is EXTREMELY small. They usually run small orders on older, offline equipment. This assumes that the main equipment hasn't had failures, which would require the use of the offline equipment to supplement large orders. There is also the probability that Rob has been making "small" changes in the routing here and there. Customers have been known to do that. It's reasonable as he's just trying to get the best results for us.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I understand all that. I knew that before you broke it down to me. I just think it is taking longer than I or most people expected it would.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Silicon hoses aren't "fabed up". These are heat formed either by hand or using CNC type equipment. Equipment, I'll add, that is not exactly abundant. You're not just going to go to the local Melvin's Hardware and order up 100 sets of custom formed silicon hoses.
[B]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry I wasn't technical enough for you. All I ment was hurry up and have them made. And just what is the difference between fabed up and made anyway?

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 04:02 AM: Message edited by: CRASH 02 ]</small>

SS00Blue

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CRASH 02:
<strong>I understand all that. I knew that before you broke it down to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm glad you knew, but your post certainly had the effect of misleading others who may not be familiar with the manufacturing process.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by CRASH 02:
<strong>And just what is the difference between fabed up and made anyway?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The expression "fabed up" is meaningless. The distinction I made was between fabrication and manufacturing. If, by your expression, you mean fabricated, then this is done for prototypical, or validation purposes. Fabrication is done prior to manufacturing, not as a substitute, as it does not maintain the quality and consistency levels expected of a finished product, and, in most cases, cannot meet the required rate of production, even in such small lots as Rob's.

Fabrication is also done through skilled labor (in this case, Rob and his crew), which avoids the unnecessary expense of creating dies and molds. This saves scrapping out valuable dollars in dies, molds, a/o materials before the product designs are completed.

As an aside, product designers have the propensity to continuously change designs without warning to manufacturing engineering (which Rob previously admitted to perpetrating <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> ). Fabricating allows this to happen until the final release, and the moneys are cut to create production dies and equipment.

This case, however, won't make the transition to full high-volume production. The purpose of the fabricated pieces Rob created were to 3-dimensionally "describe" the required hoses for CNC operations. Typically, CNC is too slow and expensive to substitute for traditional dies and molds, as in high volume manufacturing. There is, though, a financial break point where CNC (like that which Rob is using) can maintain the required production rate, and is more expedient a/o less expensive. The cost of the CNC is less, in this case, than the cost of dies, which incedentally, are typically made on CNC equipment.

Hope this helps, but you probably already knew all this.

S

<small>[ July 25, 2002, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

soslo

iTrader: (12)

SS00Blue, very comprehensive, thanks.

Rob, are we looking at a September release, November Release, Jan 03 release?

Just to get an idea.

Thanks

Rob Raymer

Everything is almost completely done. I see no reason why we won't be able to start shipping kits in September.

I'm just extrememly sorry it couldn't have been sooner. Please keep in mind, this is the first time we've attempted mass producing a kit. I had no idea that when manufacturers told us 4-6 weeks, they meant 4-6 months!

I guess we'll know better next time.

Thanks again for your patience.

Orange Krush

Is this kit designed as a direct bolt on for the stock LS1 ? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

MIGHTYMOUSE

iTrader: (59)

yes, check their website

bone stock 01 trans am + ls1 motorsports single turbo =530 rwhp, 680 rwtq

you will need a clutch and a rear more than likely <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

Orange Krush

Thanx ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />