Alky Injection
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From: Bay Area, CA
Alky Injection Had a really good idea for you alky guys... with a simple water/alky kit, there is a set pressure, no matter what load the motor maybe under or boost level for that matter, so basically at 2 psi of boost you get the same water/alky added, as at say 10 psi, so what happens is enough fuel downlow but not enough up top right? you cant really increase the pressure because if too much fuel down low the motor would be sluggish.
thinking of this and I know aquamist had the idea of pulsing a selenoid with a injector harness wire for signal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> , I came up with another Idea.
basically I thought of using all the parts of a water/alky kit, plus the addition of a rising rate regulator 1:1, with adjustable base pressure, with this added to the equation it would raise the water/alky pressure as boost rose, just like other boost reference fuel regulators work, just run a vacuum line to it, and a return line to you water/alky tank and you have a really good fuel supply and cooling affect accross the rpm, this would also be really good for part throttle boost. the tunability of a base fuel pressure would be awesome I would think too.
what do ya guys think?
thinking of this and I know aquamist had the idea of pulsing a selenoid with a injector harness wire for signal <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> , I came up with another Idea.
basically I thought of using all the parts of a water/alky kit, plus the addition of a rising rate regulator 1:1, with adjustable base pressure, with this added to the equation it would raise the water/alky pressure as boost rose, just like other boost reference fuel regulators work, just run a vacuum line to it, and a return line to you water/alky tank and you have a really good fuel supply and cooling affect accross the rpm, this would also be really good for part throttle boost. the tunability of a base fuel pressure would be awesome I would think too.
what do ya guys think?
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From: the moon
Re: Alky Injection interesting idea.
I think it depends on the blower or turbo combo whether it would be useful.
In my case no.
Minimum boost I see when I first go to WOT is 7psi.
Plus with 100psi line pressure and let's say 10psi boost, that is 90psi net working line presure.
Even 15psi boost will only drop line pressure to 85psi.
You don't see much flow variation between 85 and 90psi through the mist nozzles.I have flowed these nozzles.
I used a in car wideband to tune my combo.
Now you would think I would see a bit of difference with rpm and boost as you mention.
But basically I stay at 11.2-1 the entire run.Maybe .2 change leaner at the top end.
I do think those are good ideas.
Just in my case a simple constant flow system at 100psi works well.
Steve
I think it depends on the blower or turbo combo whether it would be useful.
In my case no.
Minimum boost I see when I first go to WOT is 7psi.
Plus with 100psi line pressure and let's say 10psi boost, that is 90psi net working line presure.
Even 15psi boost will only drop line pressure to 85psi.
You don't see much flow variation between 85 and 90psi through the mist nozzles.I have flowed these nozzles.
I used a in car wideband to tune my combo.
Now you would think I would see a bit of difference with rpm and boost as you mention.
But basically I stay at 11.2-1 the entire run.Maybe .2 change leaner at the top end.
I do think those are good ideas.
Just in my case a simple constant flow system at 100psi works well.
Steve
Re: Alky Injection Couldn't you alter the voltage to the pump via something akin to the KB Boost-a-pump and vary the flow...set the pump to come on with a hobbs switch and then set the booster device with another switch to kick up the voltage? Just an idea.
I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleans the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.
I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleans the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.
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From: Bay Area, CA
Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Scott 98Z M6:
<strong>Couldn't you alter the voltage to the pump via something akin to the KB Boost-a-pump and vary the flow...set the pump to come on with a hobbs switch and then set the booster device with another switch to kick up the voltage? Just an idea.
I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleans the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes this is another idea I think steve Chulusa(sp?) is working on this with his SMC kit.... you would probably need a logic circuit as well as a voltage controller or some kind, spiking a 12 volt pump, I dont know how long it would last though.... if you could get it to respond to boost pressure and rpm that would rock too.
<strong>Couldn't you alter the voltage to the pump via something akin to the KB Boost-a-pump and vary the flow...set the pump to come on with a hobbs switch and then set the booster device with another switch to kick up the voltage? Just an idea.
I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleans the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yes this is another idea I think steve Chulusa(sp?) is working on this with his SMC kit.... you would probably need a logic circuit as well as a voltage controller or some kind, spiking a 12 volt pump, I dont know how long it would last though.... if you could get it to respond to boost pressure and rpm that would rock too.
Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Scott 98Z M6:
<strong>I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleens the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what propane kit did you get?
<strong>I was originally going to go with propane injection (I even have the complete kit sitting in my closet), but I have deceided to go with the alky kit instead.
I primarily made the choice to go to alcohol because it cleens the top end of the motor and with the big injector in the car I am running really rich at times. Tuning might be able to fix this, but I think I am better off killing two birds with one stone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">what propane kit did you get?
Re: Alky Injection I got the kit from dynamic racing web page . However, it is a little different from the kit that they currently offer.
The kit that I got came with a smaller 1.5lb bottle (better if you ask me), no pressure gauges, and didn't have the fuel managment computer.
Basically what I got was the bottle, the bracket, the lines, the solenoid, and the nozzle.
Scott
The kit that I got came with a smaller 1.5lb bottle (better if you ask me), no pressure gauges, and didn't have the fuel managment computer.
Basically what I got was the bottle, the bracket, the lines, the solenoid, and the nozzle.
Scott
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From: Bellevue, Wa
Re: Alky Injection Neat idea, for me and my measly 6psi max blower I think I could benefit. My first try though is going to be to couple a window switch (which I already have) along with my pressure switch. So instead of water/alky flowing as soon as I see any amount of boost. I will make it so it's boost + ~3,500 rpm (will have to find the sweet spot) = alky flowing.
Hoping to limit that sluggish down low feeling the car has.
If that doesn't work out, something like you suggest may be worth trying.
Hoping to limit that sluggish down low feeling the car has.
If that doesn't work out, something like you suggest may be worth trying.
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Verdad Gallardo Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Scott 98Z M6:
<strong>I got the kit from dynamic racing web page . However, it is a little different from the kit that they currently offer.
The kit that I got came with a smaller 1.5lb bottle (better if you ask me), no pressure gauges, and didn't have the fuel managment computer.
Basically what I got was the bottle, the bracket, the lines, the solenoid, and the nozzle.
Scott</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i didnt know DR had a fuel managment computer. I know they took it off their website awhile ago, cause they were selling way to fast.
do you know any more about this computer.
<strong>I got the kit from dynamic racing web page . However, it is a little different from the kit that they currently offer.
The kit that I got came with a smaller 1.5lb bottle (better if you ask me), no pressure gauges, and didn't have the fuel managment computer.
Basically what I got was the bottle, the bracket, the lines, the solenoid, and the nozzle.
Scott</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i didnt know DR had a fuel managment computer. I know they took it off their website awhile ago, cause they were selling way to fast.
do you know any more about this computer.
Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> i didnt know DR had a fuel managment computer. I know they took it off their website awhile ago, cause they were selling way to fast.
do you know any more about this computer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, I just saw it when I went looking for the link for you. I emailed Matt Monet and asked him about it, so hopefully I will get a response back.
I will probably be looking to sell this kit in the next little while.
Scott
do you know any more about this computer. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nope, I just saw it when I went looking for the link for you. I emailed Matt Monet and asked him about it, so hopefully I will get a response back.
I will probably be looking to sell this kit in the next little while.
Scott
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Alky Injection Scott hows the propane kit working out? I was looking at the kit, but released it injects the propane as a gas and not a liquid. Probably does not provide a real good intake manifold temperature drop considering it is setup for injecting gas instead of liquid (harder to control). Matt is 70 miles from were I live, kinda a over priced kit for what you get.
Gary
Gary
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From: Bay Area, CA
Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Blackbird:
<strong>Neat idea, for me and my measly 6psi max blower I think I could benefit. My first try though is going to be to couple a window switch (which I already have) along with my pressure switch. So instead of water/alky flowing as soon as I see any amount of boost. I will make it so it's boost + ~3,500 rpm (will have to find the sweet spot) = alky flowing.
Hoping to limit that sluggish down low feeling the car has.
If that doesn't work out, something like you suggest may be worth trying.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yea heath I was acutally gonna PM you on norcal with the idea, but I thought I would share....
what I would do about that sluggish feeling.... if you want to use a window switch is, run two selenoids, and two jets, one very light jet for low rpm low boost, and then the bigger jet for 3500 rpm+ and more boost, still kinda hard to tune something like that but I would imagine it being a little better, than just one jet, at least you have LS1edit to help you with your tune too.... the rising rate regulator idea I still like, and am still looking in to regulators that rise more than 1:1 maybe a 2:1 or a 3:1? I have heard of 4:1s before, I just gotta find em! hehe
<strong>Neat idea, for me and my measly 6psi max blower I think I could benefit. My first try though is going to be to couple a window switch (which I already have) along with my pressure switch. So instead of water/alky flowing as soon as I see any amount of boost. I will make it so it's boost + ~3,500 rpm (will have to find the sweet spot) = alky flowing.
Hoping to limit that sluggish down low feeling the car has.
If that doesn't work out, something like you suggest may be worth trying.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yea heath I was acutally gonna PM you on norcal with the idea, but I thought I would share....
what I would do about that sluggish feeling.... if you want to use a window switch is, run two selenoids, and two jets, one very light jet for low rpm low boost, and then the bigger jet for 3500 rpm+ and more boost, still kinda hard to tune something like that but I would imagine it being a little better, than just one jet, at least you have LS1edit to help you with your tune too.... the rising rate regulator idea I still like, and am still looking in to regulators that rise more than 1:1 maybe a 2:1 or a 3:1? I have heard of 4:1s before, I just gotta find em! hehe
Re: Alky Injection Gary,
I never installed it, still sitting in the box that it shipped in...I was going to slap it on when I wanted to boost more, but I went the big injector route instead (83s).
I am now looking at getting a FAST system installed in the car to improve part-throttle driveabililty and performance at WOT.
What sucks is the FAST system will not work with my FJO WB system, so I will probably have to get rid of that if I go the FAST route.
I am going to talk to a guy in CA about the system today or tomorrow.
Scott
I never installed it, still sitting in the box that it shipped in...I was going to slap it on when I wanted to boost more, but I went the big injector route instead (83s).
I am now looking at getting a FAST system installed in the car to improve part-throttle driveabililty and performance at WOT.
What sucks is the FAST system will not work with my FJO WB system, so I will probably have to get rid of that if I go the FAST route.
I am going to talk to a guy in CA about the system today or tomorrow.
Scott
Re: Alky Injection carroll supercharging has a alki/water injection kit they call gaseous intercooling. the kit is very nice and very expensive. but there kit offers a "black box" controler that changes the pump speed. the box has 3 diffrent configurations (1)manifold pressure triggers low high speed (2)manifold pressure triggers the low high speed set points but includes an engine rpm tach enable setpoint below wich water cannot be injected (3)engine rpm trigger the low high speed setpoints and has a manifold pressure setpoint below which water cannot be injected.
this i strate from the brochure they sent me. the gen 4 delux system is 999$ though. check out the web site he even has a graph that shows the oprimum amount to inject. i think it is a awesom system but the price is outrageous.
sheck it out gaseous intercooling and no i am not a sales person
this i strate from the brochure they sent me. the gen 4 delux system is 999$ though. check out the web site he even has a graph that shows the oprimum amount to inject. i think it is a awesom system but the price is outrageous.
sheck it out gaseous intercooling and no i am not a sales person
Re: Alky Injection </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by red ws6 99:
<strong>Scott hows the propane kit working out? I was looking at the kit, but released it injects the propane as a gas and not a liquid. Probably does not provide a real good intake manifold temperature drop considering it is setup for injecting gas instead of liquid (harder to control). Matt is 70 miles from were I live, kinda a over priced kit for what you get.Gary</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would provide better cooling as it is released as a GAS. as it exits the hose it then turns to a gas, as this happens the Phase change will take place dramaticly cooling everything around. Liquid would just bog the engine, they've tried it and it just pumps to much fuel, and doesnt cool.
importonline also sells propane kits for a little less.
<strong>Scott hows the propane kit working out? I was looking at the kit, but released it injects the propane as a gas and not a liquid. Probably does not provide a real good intake manifold temperature drop considering it is setup for injecting gas instead of liquid (harder to control). Matt is 70 miles from were I live, kinda a over priced kit for what you get.Gary</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would provide better cooling as it is released as a GAS. as it exits the hose it then turns to a gas, as this happens the Phase change will take place dramaticly cooling everything around. Liquid would just bog the engine, they've tried it and it just pumps to much fuel, and doesnt cool.
importonline also sells propane kits for a little less.
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From: Las Cruces, NM
Re: Alky Injection You are not getting a phase change with his system. The system taps into the top of the tank and you get gas only and not any liquid. If you wanted better cooling then you would flow liquid until the manifold and then cause the phase change to gas, which absorbs lots of energy. This is much harder to do and would require a computer controller, a way to maintain temperature and pressure at various points in the system. It has been done by gm, chysler, etc but its expensive.
Gary
Gary