Yeah I need to change my e-mail.
shoot for the same readings.
The o2 sensor doesn't care if it's methanol,gas,propane etc.
It reads exhaust oxygen content.
So the lambda/Vout readings will be about the same with either fuel, as both gas and alcohol need about the same P.E..
Methanol can run richer without suffering the same power loss gas will.The wideband display readout is just set to convert the lambda/Vout reading to a more user friendly A-F reading setup for gasoline.
If you were to run pure methanol which needs about a 5-1 ratio ,then you would see around 11.5-1 on the wideband readout simply because the display is setup for gas,not alky.

From www.Techedge.com -
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Vout Lambda Petrol LPG Ethanol Diesel
1.40 0.686 10.08 10.63 4.39 9.94
1.45 0.696 10.23 10.79 4.45 10.09
1.50 0.706 10.38 10.94 4.52 10.24
1.55 0.716 10.53 11.10 4.58 10.39
1.60 0.727 10.69 11.27 4.65 10.54
1.65 0.739 10.86 11.45 4.73 10.71
1.70 0.750 11.03 11.63 4.80 10.88
1.75 0.762 11.20 11.81 4.88 11.05
1.80 0.774 11.38 12.00 4.95 11.23
1.85 0.787 11.57 12.20 5.04 11.41
1.90 0.800 11.76 12.40 5.12 11.60
1.95 0.814 11.96 12.61 5.21 11.80
2.00 0.828 12.17 12.83 5.30 12.00
2.05 0.842 12.38 13.05 5.39 12.21
2.10 0.857 12.60 13.29 5.49 12.43
2.15 0.873 12.83 13.53 5.59 12.66
2.20 0.889 13.07 13.78 5.69 12.89
2.25 0.905 13.31 14.03 5.79 13.13
2.30 0.923 13.57 14.31 5.91 13.39
2.35 0.941 13.84 14.59 6.03 13.65
2.40 0.960 14.11 14.88 6.14 13.92
2.45 0.980 14.40 15.18 6.27 14.20
2.50 1.000 14.70 15.50 6.40 14.50
2.55 1.037 15.25 16.08 6.64 15.04
2.60 1.078 15.84 16.70 6.90 15.62
2.65 1.121 16.48 17.38 7.17 16.26
2.70 1.169 17.18 18.11 7.48 16.95
2.75 1.220 17.93 18.91 7.81 17.69
2.80 1.276 18.76 19.78 8.17 18.50
2.85 1.337 19.66 20.73 8.56 19.39
2.90 1.405 20.66 21.78 8.99 20.38
. . .
4.00 free-air (can be used for calibration) </pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Steve

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 03:18 PM: Message edited by: SJH ]</small>

 

I am suprised but glad to hear it's as simple as that.

Well this should be interesting as the car feels pretty good with A/F in the low 10's

Things should get interesting once I get it back up into the high 11's

Maybe it will start to feel like I thought ~440 rwhp would <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />

Reading your post again more closely do you mean shoot for the display to read 11.9-12.1 :1 or I need to be logging and shoot for the correct vout numbers????

Thanks again.

<small>[ November 21, 2002, 03:37 PM: Message edited by: Blackbird ]</small>

 

Hi Steve, your mrguy email doesn't seem to work anymore thus my post.

I was wondering if you could help with the following.

Can you point me to any info on how to calc how the water/alky will effect the readings of the wideband. I have the same one your borrowing from Kevin and my a/f tanks to the 10's at wot. I have been pulling fuel but started thinking hey I don't think I should be shooting for the same number if there was no water/alky involved. I am sure the calibration on the unit does not take it into consideration.

Just looking to see if there is a formula you know of, otherwise I guess I will hit the dyno again and continue to pull fuel until it stops making more power add a little back and call it a day.

Thanks!

 

I run mine at 11.2 on the display with 16gph of a 50/50 mix.
Before subtracting fuel, my system dumped it to 10-1 from a starting 11.8-1 without the alky mix.
It did run strong at 10-1, but much crisper at 11.2-1.
It runs a tad stronger a bit leaner than that.
But I like it a bit rich for daily driving.
Best way I have found to tune is to log mph and rpm with efilive5.
Then make some pulls from say 60-100mph or whatever mph you are certain your tires won't spin at, to take tire spin out of the scenario.
Look at the time stamps for each frame and tune until it pulls the fastest times.
Using that method with the wideband is better than a dyno tune any day, as it will determine your true best aceleration tune.
Steve

 

PE vs RPM table here I come <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

Great idea on tuning as well.

Thanks again!

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That not really true for the o2 sensor it does care what your burning. My wideband comes with conversion for when you are running methanol, propane, etc. So basically the wibeband spits out the afr for gas then you can look on the table and see what it would be if your actually running another fuel. Of course for most of the stuff used in a street car the conversion doe not change it to much. Also since you are only spraying a small amount compared to gas, it may not affect it much at all.

If someone wants the chart I can send it to you. Basically if you read 11.0 afr on the wideband running 100% methanol you would actually be running an afr of 4.9 afr. Of course like I said you are running small quantities of methanol or ethanol, but it will affect your reading.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

well your right, I have no idea what I am talking about,lol. You just pretty much said what I already said.

hello! The chart is posted above already!
it reads from left to right ,volts, lambda and then A-F ratios for the different fuels at the same lambda and Vouts.
It should read methanol instead of ethanol.
Later..

 

SJH....come back when you have a FI car....NON intercooled doing over 500+ (maybe 600+ now) rwhp.....THEN we will think you know what you are talking about. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> You remind me of that punk Harlan....................FAST <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />

 

That not really true for the o2 sensor it does care what your burning. My wideband comes with conversion for when you are running methanol, propane, etc. So basically the wibeband spits out the afr for gas then you can look on the table and see what it would be if your actually running another fuel. Of course for most of the stuff used in a street car the conversion doe not change it to much. Also since you are only spraying a small amount compared to gas, it may not affect it much at all.

If someone wants the chart I can send it to you. Basically if you read 11.0 afr on the wideband running 100% methanol you would actually be running an afr of 4.9 afr. Of course like I said you are running small quantities of methanol or ethanol, but it will affect your reading.

Gary

Gary

 

LOL

Steve was in a funny mood today <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

sure thing. please send the chart.

can never have too much information.

thanks!