Well, I went to my hometown this weekend to visit my mom and dad, and got cornered into a race (even though I knew my stuff is not set up right, yet.)

Now, don't get me wrong; the 422 is torquey as heck and the potential is there.
But, if you've read my posts, I have some major issues to resolve.

I only have 42# injectors (found they may only be just under 40#'s, actually), so I'm running out of fuel.

My pulley belt is slipping, so one minute, my boost is 5 PSI, peaking at 8. Another time, as it may slip, it is 3 or 4 PSI, peaking at 4 or 5. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

This has made for some VERY inconsistent performance and an untenable tuning situation.

First, if I can just stomp it and I get a great hook-up AND I get an immediate 5 PSI, peaking at 7 or 8, it runs great... a better bottom than my old setup, and a bit better on top end.

Ironically, I found, with my ET Streets, I actually can run WORSE, because, if the belt slips, the extra traction causes it to shift early and I lug at the bottom of whatever gear it shifts to.
What typically happens, I will roll into it in 1st or I will spin in 1st, but back off it some, and it will suddenly shift into the next gear when the belt slips (the power was reduced and then it stopped rev'ing as fast as it may have on a previous run).


Two short-shift scenarios seem to happen to me:

1. I rev very quickly thru 1st, it shifts to 2nd, the belt slips while I'm in 2nd, and it VERY quickly shifts to 3rd (like around 4500 RPMs), then I lug the rest of the way from the rock bottom of 3rd. Ouch! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

2. I try to roll into 1st because of a poor traction road. If the belt does not slip, things are fine. However, if I lose boost again, even in 1st, it shifts way too low and I lug the bottom of 2nd AND 3rd! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

Well, very stupidly (it would run like a rape-ape most of the time) I tried my boy out with the Camaro who USED to have a 454 in it.

He had told me he was coming ready for me this time.

Changes:
Swapped motor with 500+ cubes. Spraying nitrous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />

He was running 4.56 gears, uncapped headers, ET Drags and looked like he weighed about 3000 pounds.

Still, it wasn't for money, so I took a chance my boost would be right. I knew I couldn't keep up with him in the 8th. But, he was running out of gear about three-fourths of the way thru the 1/4 mile, and with me running right, I may just squeeze past him.

Well, it wasn't pretty. <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />

As he jumped out in front (expected), I began to spin badly, so I HAD to back out of it some. It shifted early and I knew it was over. When it jumped to 2nd, it lugged, and I seemed to run the rest of the quarter ONLY on motor as I bult a measly 4 PSI of boost. :thumbdn:

Since I had beat him coming from behind the first time we ran, he took no chances and sprayed to get well ahead. But, I knew I'd never catch him, anyway.

That car is set up nice, and if he had sprayed and beat me with my stuff doing all it could, I would not have felt bad.
But, it's a sinking feeling to know your car could do better and it SEEMS to everyone that your stuff is weak. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Well, I know I can come back right, later, and shock everybody. But, it still hurts. <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />

Well, he won this round of, "Part II, Revenge of the Big Block".

This is what I need for, "Part III, the Small Block 422 ATI Returns!":

1. DEFINITELY, bigger injectors. I'm squeezing these at 100%, and they are not keeping up. I need to bench it from racing until this is resolved, anyway.
2. Pulley and belt situation: Either I go back to the 4.10" pulley and just live with 4 PSI (my current injectors would suffice, then) or, I step to the plate and do what I gotta do with some other pulley setup.
3. Better hookup!
4. Torque Arm mount point and Subframe connectors...

Side note; a less torquey setup with higher boost and less fuel requirements would be better than the bigger cubes in some of these street situations.
You could actually run low 11's more consistently with 500+ RWHP and 500 or less RWTQ, than 500+ RWHP and 650 RWTQ in a street race, and MUCH more cheaply. The power down low is just TOO unmanageable for the street!
HOWEVER, the low end grunt, punching it at high speed, is DEFINITELY a plus.

I guess it's going to be all about hook-up, at this stage in the game, for me.

Maybe I will just have to go to ET Drags, too, and even out the hole-shot game between us.

I need enough fuel and pulley to get back to my 10 PSI. Then, this will put my old setup to shame.
Right now, I'm only halfway to my current potential with this setup. And, THEN I gotta hook it to the ground!

That's OK... the car is fun. But, I gotta get it back to being the contender it was even in the street!

 

That sucks but, it is going to make the thrid race that much better. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
On a different note I was wondering if you would suggest a D-1SC or a P-1SC for 500rwhp. I would also like to know what hp are the 42 injectors good for on a blown motor. For future use. <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

 

1. Slipping belt = run a cog setup
2. Definitely change those injectors. Scary that you got goated into running your expensive motor with the fear that it could lean out and detonate.
3. You may want to consider putting a small shot on the car.
4. 28" tall ET street on a 15" rim should hook up pretty well.
5. His car is 3000lbs. Damn....you need to lose some weight on your car.


Good Luck.

 

D-1SC.

42's are supposed to be good for 670 crank HP on an NA motor, I think... in the low 500's for RWHP, when you take the BSFC of the FI motor into account and the way boost affects fuel pressure.

Some of these other guys could give you better information than me... I'm just learning to deal witht he issues of this limitation. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

 

Which belt brands have you tried so far?

 

Are you using the 8 rib pulleys?

Have you tried a larger crank pulley and and larger S/C pulley for more surface area?

Just curious. I'm thinking of going with cog or trying the 8 rib steel with the larger crank/SC pulleys.

Cog would be the way to go but I'm worried about the life a cog belt. Would there be any concern taking a long 800 mile road trip with a cog setup?

 

most import engines run cog belts as their timing chains and they get something like 100k miles on them..... i wouldn't be worried.

 

You have so much potential in your setup it's mindboggling. Once you get it dialed in your buddy won't have a chance.

Leo

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Black LS1 T/A:
<strong> D-1SC.

42's are supposed to be good for 670 crank HP on an NA motor, I think... in the low 500's for RWHP, when you take the BSFC of the FI motor into account and the way boost affects fuel pressure.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well I'm not sure what fuel pressure your running but here's some data points for your thoughts.

42lb/hr injectors rated at 43.5 PSI will actually be 48.5lb/hr injectors.

So based on 58PSI you can support up to 620FWHP on and NA motor. BSFC of .50 at the recommended duty cycle of 80%.

Now being Forced Induction you need to raise your BSFC to say .55 assuming it's prety efficient still. That means that you can safely pull 565FWHP at 80% duty cycle and 58PSI.

So increase your fuel pressure or invade your duty cycle safety margin and you can crank the HP a bit.

So assuming a BSFC of .55 and a fuel pressure of 68PSI and a 90% duty cycle you can run about 687FWHP before you lean it out and bow it up. <img border="0" alt="[bomb]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bomb.gif" />

Good luck.

 

You are right... hook is DEFINITELY a must!

I have LCA, relocation brackets and an adjustible torque arm.

My best, so far is around 1.65 60', averaging in the 1.7x's. My next suspension goals are SFC's and some way to get the strain off my tranny tailshaft. Anybody know a way to do that without scrapping my Random Tech ATA?

 

Time to spend some money on your suspension. I would do that well before you get the injectors and re-tune - if you can't put it to the ground, tuning it better won't do you much good. Get your suspension dialed in then check your actual duty cycle.

FWIW, I was amazed by how much better my car hooked with SFC's, and relocation brackets (since added the Torque Arm & PHR). I've cut a 2.04 (down from 2.20) on my stock Firehawk tires - and that was on a 40 degree day driving through puddles to get to the box on a blustery October day at Grand Bend Dragway in Canada. So my $700 in suspension netted me at least .3 in the quarter - not to bad in my book. Hoping for some 1.9's next year (or better if I get slicks - I like to race in street trim, though).

-Geoff

 

I can feel you i know how it feels but you have a nice car at least a nice streetable car <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
Btw:America loves quarter mile races its almost a standart everywhere in the world 2 but we have another option standing quarter or standing 1 km and this kind of 'long' races are better suited for our 'kind' of cars whic i call double duty cars <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> . And as long as my car runs hard and runs like i want i dont care to much about loosing the race it still gives me a 'bitter' taste but its still good to run against a streetcar looking race cars .You guys allready know its like comparing the apples to oranges but they are very different cars.I still have my 509 BB Camaro(Back halved ,nice drag suspension,TH400 with a brake bla bla bla)but its still a different animal very good drag car but other than that and shows its pretty useless but its not my point my point is : I do the same mistakes and i finally raced against a clown one day and lost you know the rest..trash talking ...i hate that...after that day i gave a promise my self that i never do a race with a unfinished / not ready/not enough prepared car.Most people dont respect the 'hard work' on the car and as long as i know your car and the effort on your car please dont run against anybody with a unfinished beatifull beast like yours. <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cheers.gif" />

 

Thanks, man.

It is a bitter pill to swallow. What make the pill particularly bitter is when you know it can run better.

If it was at it's best and I lost, I'd pat the guy on the back and tell him how awesome he ran. But, when your car is not up to it's on par, you wanna say, "But, it could have done better!". But, that sounds too much like cryin'. <img border="0" alt="[cry]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" /> YOu gotta just suck it up and take it like a man.