Iron block VS Alum
On The Tree
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 167
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From: FFX, VA
Re: Iron block VS Alum I haven't read any failures short of the sleave leaking issues of the past.
If you can afford the aluminum block I don't see any reason not to get it.
I prefer the iron because its cheaper to buy and to bore. The 70 or so lbs can be made up.
If you can afford the aluminum block I don't see any reason not to get it.
I prefer the iron because its cheaper to buy and to bore. The 70 or so lbs can be made up.
Re: Iron block VS Alum They've been using aluminum block in racing for years. There's no way in hell that I would go backwards by using a cast iron core. In fact an aluminum block customarily would set you back about $4500-$6000. If you prepare the block with quality machine work, by somebody other than these fly-by-night speed shops that popped up in the last six years, I doubt highly that you will ever shatter it for street use. Look for somebody that has a long track record to do the block work. Use quality components, and fastener hardware (not SCAT or Probe Industries). I will strongly disagree with the bullsh*t statement of, "it being easier and cheaper to fix cast iron." It's not cheaper. Aluminum is by far way much easier to repair, if things decide to go south. I wouldn't even screw with a stroker crank if you use boost. Heat soaks not even a valid excuse either. That can easily be fixed and overcome.
Re: Iron block VS Alum How easy is it to pull your bolts out of an aluminum block versus iron?
4.02 bore on the 6.0 liter iron block still seems to be stronger that the aluminum left with a stock bore to me. Adding the re-sleaving costs was not worth it for me either. Now if you want to stay with aluminum then I say go for it.
IRON BLOCK:
Cheaper, stronger, heavier
ALUMINUM BLOCK:
More expensive for big bore, weaker than iron, lighter
Personally I don't see a problem making weight with the car when it's all said and done (3400 race weight). So for me the Iron is gonna be fine. For those concerned with weight you might want to choose the Aluminum with re-sleave or keep it stock bore and add a little more boost.
4.02 bore on the 6.0 liter iron block still seems to be stronger that the aluminum left with a stock bore to me. Adding the re-sleaving costs was not worth it for me either. Now if you want to stay with aluminum then I say go for it.
IRON BLOCK:
Cheaper, stronger, heavier
ALUMINUM BLOCK:
More expensive for big bore, weaker than iron, lighter
Personally I don't see a problem making weight with the car when it's all said and done (3400 race weight). So for me the Iron is gonna be fine. For those concerned with weight you might want to choose the Aluminum with re-sleave or keep it stock bore and add a little more boost.
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Iron block VS Alum Weight is a major issue with me. I have a convertible + 150 lb, I added the supercharger, + 100 lb, I don't want anymore weight and will pay extra to keep it off. I think all aluminum also just sounds so much higher tech. Its one of the reasons I like the LS1.
Moderator
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 3,048
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From: Raleigh, NC
Re: Iron block VS Alum </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by sawedoff:
<strong> They've been using aluminum block in racing for years. There's no way in hell that I would go backwards by using a cast iron core. In fact an aluminum block customarily would set you back about $4500-$6000. If you prepare the block with quality machine work, by somebody other than these fly-by-night speed shops that popped up in the last six years, I doubt highly that you will ever shatter it for street use. Look for somebody that has a long track record to do the block work. Use quality components, and fastener hardware (not SCAT or Probe Industries). I will strongly disagree with the bullsh*t statement of, "it being easier and cheaper to fix cast iron." It's not cheaper. Aluminum is by far way much easier to repair, if things decide to go south. I wouldn't even screw with a stroker crank if you use boost. Heat soaks not even a valid excuse either. That can easily be fixed and overcome. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, Mr. BS? Why wouldn't you stroke a engine if it will be boosted? And I didn't say it's cheaper and easier to fix cast iron. Get your facts straight before you call <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
<strong> They've been using aluminum block in racing for years. There's no way in hell that I would go backwards by using a cast iron core. In fact an aluminum block customarily would set you back about $4500-$6000. If you prepare the block with quality machine work, by somebody other than these fly-by-night speed shops that popped up in the last six years, I doubt highly that you will ever shatter it for street use. Look for somebody that has a long track record to do the block work. Use quality components, and fastener hardware (not SCAT or Probe Industries). I will strongly disagree with the bullsh*t statement of, "it being easier and cheaper to fix cast iron." It's not cheaper. Aluminum is by far way much easier to repair, if things decide to go south. I wouldn't even screw with a stroker crank if you use boost. Heat soaks not even a valid excuse either. That can easily be fixed and overcome. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, Mr. BS? Why wouldn't you stroke a engine if it will be boosted? And I didn't say it's cheaper and easier to fix cast iron. Get your facts straight before you call <img border="0" alt="[bullshit]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_bs.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
Re: Iron block VS Alum Just a question. For all you who think that aluminum is better than Iron. Than why is the strongest and after modded the fastest cars have Iron blocks. Example: Supra Iron Block,Skyline Iron Block. Ls1 Motorsports (Fastest World Record Forced Induction Car)Iron Block.Also hate to mention it but the Neon SR4 has an iron block. After modded can easily handle more than 215 HP. Please let me know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
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Verdad Gallardo 10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Iron block VS Alum I don't think aluminum is better, its just lighter. Certainly iron is stronger and if it gives you more piece of mind use it. My point is that people on the two main LS1 web sites have jammed as much horsepower as they can find ways to dream up into the aluminum blocks and they seem to be holding up. I am on here alot and I haven't seen one block fail. If I saw them failing I wouldn't be building one.
10 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,755
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Iron block VS Alum Another thing I would like to say is that if I were building an F1 ATI, or Vortech YS system or some big turbo where I might be near 20 psi boost I would go with iron. But it seems like there are plenty of aluminum setups I guess up to about 15 psi that seem to be doing fine. I'm not sure anybody knows yet where the line is drawn where the aluminum fails. So I think unless your going with 15 + lbs. of boost the aluminum seems to be proven. Why carry extra weight if its unneccessary? Someone needs to see how much boost this engine can take. Fisrt take an aluminum block and crank up the boost until it blows and then do the same with an iron block, then we'll all know how far each one can go.
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 71
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From: Florida
Re: Iron block VS Alum </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by KLRWS6:
<strong> Just a question. For all you who think that aluminum is better than Iron. Than why is the strongest and after modded the fastest cars have Iron blocks. Example: Supra Iron Block,Skyline Iron Block. Ls1 Motorsports (Fastest World Record Forced Induction Car)Iron Block.Also hate to mention it but the Neon SR4 has an iron block. After modded can easily handle more than 215 HP. Please let me know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because its Much cheaper to mass produce Iron blocks, Taperformace just release an alternative to Grand national owners who cant afford the stage 2 block, its an all aluminium core that can handle at LEAST 1800 hp (their quote) the c5r block is aluminium, Pacific performace here in Florida has a honda putting down 680whp from the stock aluminium block with Iron sleeves,( notice I said stock block, not rotating assemble) same with Cybernation motorsports and all the honda tuners across America. aluminum blocks can handle lots of power, and if the are sleeved they are right up there with iron.
<strong> Just a question. For all you who think that aluminum is better than Iron. Than why is the strongest and after modded the fastest cars have Iron blocks. Example: Supra Iron Block,Skyline Iron Block. Ls1 Motorsports (Fastest World Record Forced Induction Car)Iron Block.Also hate to mention it but the Neon SR4 has an iron block. After modded can easily handle more than 215 HP. Please let me know? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because its Much cheaper to mass produce Iron blocks, Taperformace just release an alternative to Grand national owners who cant afford the stage 2 block, its an all aluminium core that can handle at LEAST 1800 hp (their quote) the c5r block is aluminium, Pacific performace here in Florida has a honda putting down 680whp from the stock aluminium block with Iron sleeves,( notice I said stock block, not rotating assemble) same with Cybernation motorsports and all the honda tuners across America. aluminum blocks can handle lots of power, and if the are sleeved they are right up there with iron.
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 71
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From: Florida
Re: Iron block VS Alum I am positive that if an aluminium block was sleeved it would be just sa strong or stronger than iron as far as boost goes. the block is under no stress at all when its has ductile iron sleeves, where as an all iron non sleeved block is.
Re: Iron block VS Alum I also have not heard of an actual block failure due to high horsepower. I think that the reason LS1 Motorsports went with an iron block was that they were pushing so much boost that they were lifting the heads even with head-studs in the aluminum block. The threads were stretching and the studs would loosen. The iron block is able to maintain it's cylinder head threads under the same boost. At what level of boost this happened I can't remember.
If I am ever lucky enough to have a big inch turbo motor it will be an LS1 Motorsports single system with only about 12-15 psi on an 8.5:1 CR in an aluminum 421 inch motor (4.155" bore and a forged[BILLET?]3.885" crank <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" /> .
If I am ever lucky enough to have a big inch turbo motor it will be an LS1 Motorsports single system with only about 12-15 psi on an 8.5:1 CR in an aluminum 421 inch motor (4.155" bore and a forged[BILLET?]3.885" crank <img border="0" alt="[burn out]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_burnout.gif" /> .
Staging Lane
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Florida
Re: Iron block VS Alum I dont see these failing... http://www.thunderracing.com/images/...ls1sleeves.jpg
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From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Re: Iron block VS Alum I agree that the threads pulling out of aluminum sounds like it might be an issue. If somebody has some info on it please respond. I get tired of being dogged because I chose to do aluminum over iron, or I chose a Vortech over an ATI or a turbo, or whatever else people do differently. There are many ways to mod. I just think that it is strange how very quickly everybody has started jumping on the iron block for forced induction thing when I never saw the failures with aluminum. Iron-cool, aluminum-cool, turbo-cool, Vortech-cool, ATI-cool, heads/cam-cool, nitrous-cool, any car well thought out and put together can be impressive in a variety of ways. There may be only one way to rock, but there's a million ways to mod.
Re: Iron block VS Alum </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by 2001WS6Vert:
<strong> I agree that the threads pulling out of aluminum sounds like it might be an issue. If somebody has some info on it please respond. I get tired of being dogged because I chose to do aluminum over iron, or I chose a Vortech over an ATI or a turbo, or whatever else people do differently. There are many ways to mod. I just think that it is strange how very quickly everybody has started jumping on the iron block for forced induction thing when I never saw the failures with aluminum. Iron-cool, aluminum-cool, turbo-cool, Vortech-cool, ATI-cool, heads/cam-cool, nitrous-cool, any car well thought out and put together can be impressive in a variety of ways. There may be only one way to rock, but there's a million ways to mod. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">VERY well said. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />
<strong> I agree that the threads pulling out of aluminum sounds like it might be an issue. If somebody has some info on it please respond. I get tired of being dogged because I chose to do aluminum over iron, or I chose a Vortech over an ATI or a turbo, or whatever else people do differently. There are many ways to mod. I just think that it is strange how very quickly everybody has started jumping on the iron block for forced induction thing when I never saw the failures with aluminum. Iron-cool, aluminum-cool, turbo-cool, Vortech-cool, ATI-cool, heads/cam-cool, nitrous-cool, any car well thought out and put together can be impressive in a variety of ways. There may be only one way to rock, but there's a million ways to mod. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">VERY well said. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="gr_images/icons/cool.gif" />