there are more h/c cars out there, so there is automatically a larger population of FAST h/c cars than to fi cars. probably 4:1

i'm also going to extend to say that people with fi are more likely to be street cars than h/c which means there is going to be a definite advantage to the h/c cars for not having to carry the weight of all the creature comforts the fi guys keep (general statement, there are exeptions)

then there is the weight of the power adder itself that you can't get away from.

that being said, when mines done i'd still race any old h/c car cuz we have something up our sleeves called TORQUE.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by VINCE:
<strong>Remember the parameters that he said.. Do not add to the equation.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wait a minute here, Vince. To whom are you speaking? I added nothing to the equation except for sound perspective. So that you understand, horsepower is nothing but a calculation of rate at which TORQUE is applied (one horsepower = 550 ft-lb/sec)

Now, assuming equal traction, it is the area under the TORQUE curve that is most relevant here.

Having clarified that... thanks for the bandwidth.

SC

 

they are two different animals, this is a apples to oranges comparison. most heads and cam cars are optimized for thier setup most FI cars are not.

anything with a stock cam (FI car) is going to have a small power band, (6k redline) unlike a H/C car (6600 rpms or more), which probably run some good gears(4.10s), to applied TQ to the ground is greater at all times than the FI car.

 

Bravo,
I believe I understand your question, but if your thinking about buying a blower and your goal is to have the same HP/TQ or a little more then a H/C 346, then you might want to just stay with the H/C 346.
Like others have said, when you go H/C with a blower, now your talking 550RWHP+, depending on the blower, boost, and H/C package.

A H/C 346 and a blown 346 should never be equal in RWHP, if they are, the one with the blower screwed up. But that's just my thoughts on the subject.

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nickn20:
<strong> most heads and cam cars are optimized for thier setup most FI cars are not.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not optimized? How can you make that broad, unfounded, all-encompassing generalization? Because the S/C guys don't NEED to add milled and ported heads and a ridiculously narrow LSA, spring-destroying cam to match the H/C cars? That's the point of FI. It overcomes the inherent compromizes of the stock engine design.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Nickn20:
<strong>anything with a stock cam (FI car) is going to have a small power band, (6k redline) unlike a H/C car (6600 rpms or more), which probably run some good gears(4.10s), to applied TQ to the ground is greater at all times than the FI car. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> So would a car that generates a peak of 500RWTQ at 8500RPM naturally have a greater powerband? No, Sir.

Maximum RPM is NOT an indicator of the area under the TQ curve. Additionally, when you say an FI car with a stock cam automatically has a narrow powerband, I just know you're not referring to ALL FI cars, because the LS1M kit has show enormous TQ under the curve from 3200 to 5500, all from a stock cam.

The fact is that the S/C cars do produce healthy TQ, with stock cams, and when a set of gears are added, going from your own statement, the S/C car will produce more TQ to the ground. Personally I think the S/C car has a fine advantage on the street, though a quarter mile run is a toss up.

On another note, as I really do like the visceral sound of car with a narrow LSA, high-lift, long-duration cam and a wide open exhaust, I'd probably opt for the H/C car. It was great driving on the street with my 10 second NA Mustang. JMO though.

SC

<small>[ February 06, 2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: SS00Blue ]</small>

 

Anyone in Miami area with a H/C setup willing to race my SC setup. This should solve any debate.

I have my car "optimized" for the strip. I would preffer to run on slicks (but will run on street tires) because it will help me control my torque.

But it might be a little unfair to the H/C car because I have never seen any head cam car put down 531RWHP/502RWTQ, with a torque band that starts at 400 as low as 2800RPM.

Their is a race in Bradenton, Florida on February 9th, hosted by Breathless performance. All vipers & chevys are welocme (sorry no fords). I would have made it to this event if my clutch wasn't slipping. Iam getting the new clutch installed on monday. So if anyone goes to this event lets see if we can get a good match up between a H/C car vs. a SC car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by BLMONGOOSE:
<strong> Anyone in Miami area with a H/C setup willing to race my SC setup. This should solve any debate.

I have my car "optimized" for the strip. I would preffer to run on slicks (but will run on street tires) because it will help me control my torque.

But it might be a little unfair to the H/C car because I have never seen any head cam car put down 531RWHP/502RWTQ, with a torque band that starts at 400 as low as 2800RPM.

Their is a race in Bradenton, Florida on February 9th, hosted by Breathless performance. All vipers & chevys are welocme (sorry no fords). I would have made it to this event if my clutch wasn't slipping. Iam getting the new clutch installed on monday. So if anyone goes to this event lets see if we can get a good match up between a H/C car vs. a SC car. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What does your car run in the 1/4? There are alot of H/C cars in the 10's, given they are around 3300 lbs. but they still run 10's, and add a 100 shot to the H/C and you'll have your hands full, watch who you call out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

I will be at BMP this weekend.. Bring it <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

Vince your on. <img border="0" alt="[driving]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_driving3.gif" /> Friendly race only!!! (no heat intended on my previous post) We must do it late February because Iam getting my new clutch put in hopefully next week. My stock clutch has given up on me. Didn't last very long after I got the car tuned and running hard maybe 3 weeks. Ordered the Mcloude Dual Disk, now Iam just trying to find a decent price for the installation.

A mechanic has quoted me 800 bucks, I think this is a little high, but Iam also running a corvette so the installation prices tend to be a little higher than usual.

Vince will you be running on NOS or just Head & Cam. How close to Miami do you live?

 

I can't wait to see how this race comes out! I have a SC but that doesnt mean I havent wondered once or twice if my money would have been better spent elsewhere. At the time of purchase ease of installation and near stock streetability were the selling points for the supercharger. Not to mention the gear whine and the surge valve sound. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> But then again I guess you have to ask yourselves why does it matter because I would assume most people that buy a supercharger or turbo will eventually do heads and cam also. I know I will. Putting the two together can only make things better. That is if you can afford it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

 

Its going to be fun.. Remember the SC'd car has a 100rwhp on me.. The question is going to be can he put it to the ground.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> I have raced a SC'd car with similar horsepower and it took him a while to catch me from a 0 to 130mph sprint.. He did not catch me until I was about 120mph.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ February 07, 2003, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: VINCE ]</small>

 

That sucks when people slowly catch up to you. I'd say at 120mph the war is already won or you may as well call it a tie. Whenever I race my buddys turbo eclipse with my gay mustang I always kill him until after 90mph and then he pulls on me and just walks away from me like nothin. I hate that feeling when I have the pedal to the floor and he's just creepin up on me. <img border="0" alt="[punch]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_punch.gif" />
If I would have bought that car new and got beat by a four cylinder I think I would have returned it.

 

He must have a worked Eclipse..

 

I live about 4 hours from Miami.. I have no problem meeting up somewhere.. I go to Ft. Myers all the time. Late Feb gives me time to get some drag radials as well. I should have the NX kit on by then as well.. I will run you both ways.. H/C and then I will spray.. My car is not a typical 440rwhp H/C package like what you see on the boards. I have less than 430rwhp, but I am hoping my gears would keep up with you for a second on the motor anyway.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> The spray run is going to be interesting though... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

 

117mph vs 119mph

There's your 30 less RWHP right there


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Qtrhrse23:
<strong> In the same 92GT, I ran 11.40s/119. My buddy's 92GT with all motor almost same weight ran 11.40/117 with 30 less RWHP. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

 

Hey Vince, How where the races over at Bradenton. I never got the chance to make it over on sunday. I went out saturday night to South Beach with the Girlfriend and got home 8am sunday morning. I herd from a friend of mine that it rained. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="gr_sad.gif" />

Did you get a chance to see any SC vs. H/C cars race?

We'll be intouch. Just waiting on the clutch to get delivered. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" /> I hope you have the NX kit ready when we race. Its going to be a real fun & interesting race with you spraying. <img border="0" alt="[evil]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_devil.gif" />

 

Didn't read everything carefully so forgive if this has been said before but it will all come down to power under the curve. Peak horsepower means not a damn thing. All things being equal, the car that makes the more power for a longer time will win reguardless. If the H/C car is peaky and the S/C car pulls all the way, then the S/C car wins. Try racing one of those 600+ horsepower supras sometime. They make 600hp peak sure but they are under 200hp for 2/3s of their RPM band.

 

The Shootout was fine until it rained, but I did watch a lot of good runs.. I think the turnout could have been better if the overcast would not have scared many away.. I am working on the NX kit now. I have it. I just need to install it..

 

Yea, my MPH was higher, but ETs is what I race for. Did I mention I also had 80lbs more TQ? I had more TQ at 2800 than he did at his peak at 4500. Seems like I had a definite advantage, doesn't it?